Managing Memories, Not Menus: How Ryan Wilson Leads the Fourth Generation at Lawry’s

Anthony Codispoti (00:00)
Welcome to another edition of the inspired stories podcast where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired by how they’ve overcome adversity. My name is Anthony Cotaspodi and today’s guest is Ryan Wilson, fourth generation CEO at ⁓ Lawry’s restaurant. Founded in 1938, ⁓ Lawry’s is a family owned establishment known for its signature prime rib and exceptional dining experiences.

Over its 90 year history, the company has built a reputation for high quality products, beautiful surroundings, and warm hospitality. Ryan has been a part of the company since 2011, first serving as vice president before taking on the CEO role in July 2020. Under his guidance, Lawry’s has maintained its reputation for fine dining and received a claim for providing outstanding service.

His background shows his dedication to delivering top-notch culinary adventures, ensuring guests continue to enjoy memorable meals. Throughout his leadership, he has overseen various initiatives designed to enhance the brand while still honoring Lawry’s rich tradition and values. Now, before we get into all that good stuff, today’s episode is brought to you by my company, Ad Back Benefits Agency, where we offer very specific and unique employee benefits that are both great for your team

and fiscally optimized for your bottom line. Imagine being able to give your restaurant employees free access to doctors, therapists, and prescription meds. And here’s the fun part. The program actually puts more money into your employees’ pockets. And the companies, too. One recent client was able to increase net profits by $900 per employee per year. Results vary for each company, and some organizations may not be eligible.

To find out if your company qualifies, contact us today at addbackbenefits.com. All right, back to our guest today, fourth generation CEO of Lawry’s restaurants, Ryan Wilson. Thanks for making the time to share your story today.

Ryan Wilson (02:07)
Absolutely, Anthony. Pleasure to be here.

Anthony Codispoti (02:09)
Okay, so tell us the story. How was the company founded?

Ryan Wilson (02:12)
Okay, and I’ll have my team follow up on some of the specifics of your intro. ⁓ We’re actually 103 years old this year. But the story began back 1915 when Lawrence Frank, my great grandfather, his wife, Henrietta Vandykamp, and their family opened up a potato chip stand in downtown LA, Spring Street, and they ⁓ opened up just selling what they called Saratoga chips. ⁓ And they were actually marketed as being a health food.

Anthony Codispoti (02:20)
Okay.

Ryan Wilson (02:42)
because they only had three ingredients, potatoes, salt, and the oil they were fried in. And it originates from Saratoga Springs in New York, et cetera. ⁓ That business, they quickly started selling cookies and baked goods, and that became the Vandy Camps Bakery business that was a major brand up and down the West Coast ⁓ into the 60s. That was Lawrence Frank. That was his primary business, and he really focused on developing the baked goods side of F ⁓ &B.

Then along the way in 1922, ⁓ opened up the Tamoshanter in Los Angeles on Los Feliz Boulevard. That is our oldest restaurant still operating today. And that is our 103 year old kind of a time start. ⁓ know, he was a Lawrence, I didn’t have a chance to meet him. He passed away about six years before I was born in 1980. But he was a very creative guy, never graduated from high school. ⁓

and just had incredible ideas and was both very charismatic. And as my grandfather, second generation would relay, also can be a little mercurial at times. But he loved the opportunity of bringing together his creativity and his passion for hospitality and restaurants. ⁓ And so the Tam O’Shanner opened up very near the Disney Studios and had the great opportunity to work with some of the early set designers.

that were part of Disney’s creations. One specifically, gentleman, Harry Oliver, that helped design this very whimsical Scottish roadside inn. ⁓ And we like to think that there’s still a fireplace there that was some inspiration for Walt and ⁓ Snow White’s cottage. So a lot of rich history in that restaurant. It’s a cherished ⁓ location in Southern California and a real legacy to our community and certainly to our family.

⁓ It’s a challenging business though, and we can talk more about those dynamics in California. But we’re incredibly proud of the TAM team and everything it has done and where it’s going. ⁓ So then in 1938, Lawrence opened up Lawry’s The Prime Rib. ⁓ And he wanted to ⁓ create an experience serving what he called the best meal in America. And it was for him reminiscent of his background coming from a family of butchers originally from Wisconsin.

⁓ where on a Sunday, you know, they’d have a roast and they’d bring the family together. And he wanted to replicate that in larger format ⁓ in a restaurant. And all of his friends told him, you’re crazy to do a single entree concept. ⁓ Don’t do it. And he listened and they opened with a full menu. ⁓ They had, were marketing ⁓ fresh pineapple flown in from Hawaii.

There were five different types of seafood cocktails and prime rib was the center point. And after about six months of operation, he said, no, I’m going back to my original idea. And the concept went back down to just prime rib. There weren’t even seafood options at that point.

Anthony Codispoti (05:51)
If you come into the restaurant, the only thing you’re getting is prime rib.

Ryan Wilson (05:54)
Yep. Get prime rib. And it was served to you on our still on our stainless steel, beautiful silver carts, all done table side. ⁓ he introduced a ⁓ salad, our spinning bowl salad, which we like to think was the first time a salad was served before the entree. ⁓ and he wanted to really highlight the quality of California produce. ⁓ and that it was a big bold move to say, you’re going to start your meal with vegetables as opposed to the meat.

And, you know, it was just another one of his great ideas and there was a tremendous amount of theater and concept worked. We actually then moved locations in the late 40s to a spot across the street from our current restaurant. And it was there until 1996, sorry, 1994. And then it came back to our original land in current location. And with the ⁓ Lawry’s The Prime Rib Experience, he created ⁓ Lawry’s Season Salt.

recognizing that when you have a piece of prime rib, most of the seasoning and flavor is just on the outside of the meat. And you wanted to enhance and create a unique flavor profile for the meat itself and created Lowry Season Salt. And that was offered on the table. And then in the late 40s, my grandfather, Richard Nathan Frank, was at business school at Stanford. And ⁓ a year into his time there, there was a labor strike at the bakery. And in fact, there was a

tight bomb thrown into the Tamishander. ⁓ my grandfather decided to come back to the family business, the bakery business, and help his dad. And he spent, I think, about a year and a half or so ⁓ helping manage through that labor crisis and came to realize, I don’t want to go into the bakery business. I don’t want to go into the family politics. There were some other cousins that were vying for control. And he recognized fundamentally that the business itself

had some critical flaws and it was a high labor content and a very perishable product. And he saw the counterpoint in ⁓ Lawry’s Season Salt and that at that point, Lawrence insisted on not selling it and people were stealing it off the tables because they loved it so much. And my grandfather said, you know, I don’t want to move into the bakery business. I want to take on ⁓ Lawry’s Season Salt. And apparently they had a falling out for about a year, year and a half.

Nevertheless, Richard Nathan continued to take on the seasoning business. And once again, that was his primary business and grew that tremendously up until 1979 when we sold ⁓ Lawry’s Foods as it became to Lipton. Again, go.

Anthony Codispoti (08:37)
And was it at that point, sorry, was it

still like a single skew? it Lowry Season Salt, as everybody knows, or had it developed into more products?

Ryan Wilson (08:45)
No, it was only Larry’s season salt at that point. And then he started to enhance the bottling of it and ramp up its scalability. He also, again, reflective of his passion for hospitality ⁓ and my grandmother’s influence and other family members, ⁓ Lorraine, Frank, his sister in particular, ⁓ they started offering tours to the bottling plant. And then my grandfather had ⁓ an office next to the bottling plant.

And so after tours, then they wanted to, you know, give some samples. And so then they built a kitchen and then it just started to grow and grow. And my grandfather wanted to expand the flavor profiles. And so he got into the spaghetti mix and taco and fajitas and the whole gambit of ⁓ packaging. They also were some of the first to ⁓ invest in the foil pouch that we know now that all those seasonings come in.

and they were one of the first to invest in what’s called the Bartelt’s machine. Anyways, that business just continued to grow and grow and it was ⁓ very successful, became a ⁓ multinational brand. ⁓ And again, like his father, he loved restaurants. And so alongside managing ⁓ Lawry’s Foods, ⁓ opened up a number of different restaurants around Southern California.

At one point there were 13 different concepts in Southern California alone of a Mediterranean ⁓ restaurant, a Hawaiian seafood concept, incredible ⁓ mesquite fired steakhouse with a putting green in the bar. mean, just crazy, incredible stuff, right? And some worked and some didn’t, but it created a long legacy of hospitality and brands and ambiance and service and great food.

Anthony Codispoti (10:27)
you

Ryan Wilson (10:40)
for many, years and generations.

Anthony Codispoti (10:43)
So the ⁓ Lawry’s name, does it come from Lawrence? Okay.

Ryan Wilson (10:45)
Yes.

So it comes from Lawrence and originally, ⁓ funny story, they were going to call it Larry’s ⁓ Prime Rib. And ⁓ a cousin said, don’t call it Larry’s, it sounds too low brow. Replace one of the Rs with a W and it’s Lori’s. ⁓ And so it became Lori’s until the 60s. And the story goes that there was a radio announcer that mispronounced the copy on an advertisement.

and pronounced it ⁓ Lawry’s and it stuck, but it should be pronounced Lori’s and I’m even guilty obviously of mispronouncing his name and the name of the restaurant, but that’s part of the story. It should be Lori’s. I mean, I even rewire my brain. It should be Lori’s. My mom in fact’s name is Lori, so you would think I would know better, but.

Anthony Codispoti (11:25)
So what do you want it called? Okay.

Okay.

Okay, so I need to go back and edit the intro and every every time I’ve made a reference to it the correct pronunciation is not ⁓ Lawry’s as I’ve been saying it for 50 years. It’s Laurie’s Laurie’s is the correct. Okay All right ⁓ previously 13 different concepts how many ⁓ concepts exist today?

Ryan Wilson (11:47)
Yep. Laurie’s. Laurie’s season saw. Yep.

Okay, so today we have two domestic ⁓ Lawry’s The Prime Rib locations, Beverly Hills, the flagship, and then Las Vegas. ⁓ And then we have the Five Crowns restaurant where I office down here in Newport Beach. And within Five Crowns, we have two concepts. Five Crowns is a very legacy brand. My grandparents opened in 1965. ⁓ Prime Rib is the focal point of the menu, but much more of a, you know, elaborate continental.

legacy dining experience that we’ve contemporized. And then about 15 years ago, we created and I was the opening chef for a gastropub concept called Side Door. And it was kind of the counterpoint to Five Crowns. It’s a reservation only, you go there for special occasions. It’s the cherished place for a holiday reservation, et cetera. ⁓ Side Door opened with a menu that changed every day, no reservations.

great beverage component. We’re still very proud of a 50-50 food and beverage split and looking at some growth opportunities for the sidebar concept. And then we have the Tamishanter. ⁓ So in the US, we have five ⁓ locations, four locations, five brands. ⁓ And then overseas, we have 11 locations of the ⁓ Lawry’s The Prime Rib Concept. And that’s a business that started back in 1996. ⁓

and is still growing today. I have been a part of that business and its development since 2008 ⁓ when I was actually the opening training chef for the first location of ⁓ Lawry’s Shanghai and ⁓ Lawry’s Osaka. ⁓ So that’s our presentation.

Anthony Codispoti (13:38)
And so those international

concepts, their license, their franchises, how are they structured?

Ryan Wilson (13:43)
They’re licensors.

Yeah. So we sell an upfront license. There’s an upfront license fee and then it’s a residual of sales ⁓ for a 20 year period. And, you know, we work with them on concept maintenance and execution, best practices, marketing opportunities, know, brand fit, but it’s our partner’s ⁓ obligation to operate the businesses and to, you know, fund all their marketing, et cetera. So it’s a…

Generally speaking, it’s a great component of our business and strategically has been really important ⁓ growth vehicle for us. Yet it has challenges and we certainly see that over the last, we’ve seen a lot more enhanced challenges in the last nine months with current administration and all the international volatility, trade volatility, et cetera. ⁓

Anthony Codispoti (14:35)
And the challenges that you’re seeing in these international markets are what specifically?

Ryan Wilson (14:43)
You know, it’s very market dependent ⁓ and there’s some fundamental challenges of just restaurant challenges, location and labor dynamics and how the brand is presented and marketed, et cetera. ⁓ But, you know, one of our dynamics right now is just cost and availability of beef ⁓ and the perception of beef in U.S. beef. ⁓ And that’s becoming increasingly challenging. And I was in three weeks ago.

in Shanghai with our partners. And it’s looking like about March that there will be no more US beef available in China. China, the country has not purchased any US beef since March of last year. I’m sorry, of this year of 25. And so, know, supply dynamics are shifting and managing through that and still being in a position to want to highlight the great quality.

of US beef, but doing so when it’s not available or it’s just getting very, very expensive. ⁓ And I think a reciprocal to that is managing through perceptions of US companies and that piece of Americana that for the last 30 years has been a significant component of our brand’s in East Asia. But I’m not going to say it’s diminishing, but I’m answering a lot more questions on what’s happening over here.

Anthony Codispoti (16:08)
Yeah.

Ryan Wilson (16:09)
and how our brand is fitting in the greater marketplace. ⁓ And then, you know, another really interesting piece we’re working more on is how to assist our brands on cross marketing between their markets. And for us, you know, just to isolate it, we focus on, you know, just within our social and digital management, what SEO looks like on Google platform. But Google is one not available in China.

and isn’t nearly as accessed in other countries, yet it is in some. So figuring out what all those channels are and how to cost-effectively support a consistent brand experience for our guests in Japan or in Korea or in Bangkok or in Beverly Hills is a challenge for us.

Anthony Codispoti (16:57)
How does licensing differ from franchising? Why was that a better path for you?

Ryan Wilson (17:02)
⁓ you know, they’re very similar, ultimately franchising my understanding and I’m not an attorney. but when you start getting into a franchising, it’s a very, very tight, ⁓ operating book all the way down to we are providing you with all of your marketing resources, all of your, you know, FF and E contacts. have a tie into how you’re getting all of your F and B, you know, core products. It’s much more tight.

And because of that, there’s a lot more oversight and reporting on franchise businesses. ⁓ So it’s a similar sort of idea that someone is operating our concept, ⁓ but it doesn’t have as much tight controls on it and therefore costs for us. ⁓

Anthony Codispoti (17:51)
So up until recently, the Asian expansion, the licensing expansion that you’ve had there has been really good for you. Now with some of the geopolitical things that are going on, ⁓ future seems a little less certain.

Ryan Wilson (18:05)
No, you know, I think it’s ⁓ I’ll say the last nine months has been particularly volatile. ⁓ In the last 36 months, we’ve opened four locations overseas. So we still see growth. And I just got back last night from a trip to Taiwan and Hong Kong, ⁓ and I’m starting to see more stability and just more interest in partnerships. And I think part of it also

our businesses over there, our partners have other businesses that they’re managing, right? So whether it’s restaurants, our restaurants or other businesses in their portfolio, all of this trade volatility and ⁓ geopolitical volatility, you know, between Thailand and Cambodia, for example, we just opened a restaurant in Bangkok, we’ve got an LOI out to a group in Phnom Penh, ⁓ but those business opportunities get further on the back of the back of the stoves, so to speak.

when they’re dealing with specific political issues in their country. So I never thought as a restaurateur, I’d be considering all of these, you know, very specific, very time sensitive geopolitical dynamics.

Anthony Codispoti (19:09)
DC.

Do you see an opportunity to license outside of Asia?

Ryan Wilson (19:23)
Yes, ⁓ we are ⁓ continuing to look at the Gulf states, but for a similar reason, it’s changing very dynamically. ⁓ looking at it, getting into that market, ⁓ the partnership is critical from a whole host of different reasons and where you start and what’s your beachhead and with whom ⁓ is a big decision. But we’re continuing to look and talk to a lot of people and a lot of groups. But we take our time. You know, these are

20 year deals and particularly coming from the foundation of a family business. ⁓ I want to know that there’s a deep commitment and ⁓ I want to know that these brands are going to continue to be invested in and supported over the term of the license, if not further. ⁓ and then we continue to also look at the UK. ⁓ I’m really interested in that market. It’s it’s and ⁓ I think it’s a really exciting dynamic that

Part of our concept is rooted in British culture, right? Having the joint of beef, right? The roast. ⁓ And yet Lawrence never visited London ⁓ and our brand in that marketplace would present a different opportunity, value opportunity. It wouldn’t have the same cache from its Americana component in history, but we’d really just be operating on competing on the best piece of beef on the plate.

And I know we can really strive ⁓ in that competitive marketplace.

Anthony Codispoti (20:56)
And does that require it to

be American beef?

Ryan Wilson (20:59)
Oh, that’s it. I mean, it’s an interesting question. No, I mean, I still ideally in all sorts of trade dynamics aside, I love the idea today of of having our USB certified Angus beef is what we’ve served for 30 plus years. Having that be the cornerstone and the anchor of the menu, but also using it as an opportunity to try different products, you know.

beautiful British beef, French, Uruguayan. mean, they’re all very different and taste different. And I think the guest is increasingly curious and we can provide a really exciting way to cherish and celebrate quality protein. I think that’s an important shift in everyone’s appreciation for animal protein is it should be.

exceptionally high quality and presented in a place that’s going to be cherished with loved ones and create memories.

Anthony Codispoti (21:59)
And so

all of these locations that you guys are licensed in or looking at, the Lori’s name already carries some weight, like the the season salt, the products that have been in the marketplace for years and people know the name.

Ryan Wilson (22:13)
Yes.

And back to that idea, and I’ll get back to your to answer your question. ⁓ In 1960, think it’s about 1966, my grandfather created a licensing deal between ⁓ intellectual property ⁓ arrangement, you know, agreement between Larry’s Foods and Larry’s restaurants, recognizing that the two entities needed to have an ability to

identify the IP asset, but then also to be able to share it. And so then when Larry’s Foods sold in 1979, that agreement had already kind of been established. So Larry’s The Prime Rib could continue to grow and Larry’s Foods could continue to grow. after 1979, Foods was in a different ownership. Then in 1996, we created a sub-licensing agreement with Lipton at the time, and that allowed Larry’s Restaurants Inc.

to be able to sub license and use the ⁓ Lawry’s name and the logo that what we call the fanciful L ⁓ for restaurant purposes. ⁓ ⁓ Lawry’s foods and that IP, because they’re the owner of the ⁓ Lawry’s Mark. ⁓ It has now sold two times over to now it’s owned by McCormick. They purchased it in 2009. And with that, they purchased what we call the 96 agreement. McCormick, it took us 18,

Yeah, it took us 17 years to get a new license agreement with McCormick through multiple generations of corporate leadership on their side. And last December, I got a new agreement in place that clarifies our use of the the licensing and, interestingly, the capitalization of how we can grow the businesses using the ⁓ Lawry’s name. So that dynamic is really important.

And it’s a key piece of our growth because we know there’s great goodwill behind the ⁓ Lawry’s ⁓ seasoning brands and ⁓ our hospitality. ⁓ I’m continuing to work with McCormick on them, think, making a better connection and tying into a bona fide operator that still uses all of their products. ⁓ But it’s a little bit of a David and Goliath story of just trying to keep a multinational publicly traded

corporation paying attention to the little guy out here in California. ⁓ So it’s a, no, that’s a really important piece of our business and our growth. And when I look at our strategy, it’s in a philosophical sense, it’s the number one value of our, on our balance sheet is our ability to use and grow the ⁓ Lawry’s name.

Anthony Codispoti (24:59)
So prior to getting that new licensing agreement in place that took 17 or 18 crazy years, did you feel sort of hamstrung in what you were able to do or were you still moving forward with an understanding that things are going to work out?

Ryan Wilson (25:15)
Yes, Anne. We had been able to open a number of restaurants with their consent or the IP owners consent from ultimately from 1996 till 2013. We opened our location in Seoul, Korea in 2013 and McCormick recognized it and consented to that license under the old agreement. And then they basically kind of went dark on us on on consenting and everything. And we

continue to operate under the guidelines of the, the input, what we viewed to be the in place 96 agreement and kept them informed and kept negotiating. And it was, you know, they didn’t ever want to come down hard and say, you can’t continue to grow. Cause that would ratchet up our, ⁓ intensity and desire to get into a big legal fight with them. But we knew they were on bad grounds and it was bordering at times on bad faith negotiations, but.

we pushed through and got to a good agreement for both sides based on relationships, ultimately. ⁓ In 2018, ⁓ I came back from business school and took over that ⁓ negotiation from my uncle, who is our former CEO and current chairman, ⁓ and took some time and just cleared up and got out of the legal battle. We stopped having attorney-to-attorney wrestling matches over language and

We repositioned and made some good introductions to people at McCormick, in their marketing departments and a gentleman who’s now president of the Americas and established trust ultimately. And again, it took seven years to get an agreement across the finish line, but it ultimately is what was key is them understanding that we are still living the brand. He was my great grandfather.

We are great stewards and trusted partners in moving the brand forward. And with that trust, we’ve got a lot more opportunity and much wider boundaries on how we can grow ⁓ overseas and domestically.

Anthony Codispoti (27:22)
What percentage of this resolution do you think happened because there was different leadership ⁓ at McCormick ⁓ versus ⁓ what percentage was it you just sort of taking the lawyers out and saying, let’s just talk human being to human being.

Ryan Wilson (27:39)
I mean, I think it was, ⁓ know the math doesn’t add up, but it’s 100 % both, right? I mean, it was the opportunity to step aside the legalese for a little bit ⁓ and then get to the relationships. And even the last pass of the drafts did my best to really keep the lawyers, I don’t want to say at bay, but not let them get too deep in the weeds on the language. ⁓

And like anything, you we got to an agreement and now we’re working on the relationship. And it’s been a very busy year for me. And you can talk more about, you know, what’s going on in the business in my life, but it’s a relationship I want to, and it’s a real focus to spend more time on and get closer to them and get to quarterly meetings and get my team deeper integrated into what McCormick’s thinking about the brand and where they’re making investments. And we’re now shifting to some domestic growth opportunities.

And seeing where there’s overlap in that ⁓ Lawry’s brand resonance is a real, an important component in our growth criteria. So.

Anthony Codispoti (28:46)
Can you

say more about that, the domestic growth?

Ryan Wilson (28:48)
Yeah, absolutely. So within this agreement, the old agreement basically precluded ⁓ an open capital structure to new locations. You we’re a wholly owned family business. Easy math to open a brand new ⁓ Lawry’s the Prime Rib location, ⁓ roughly 10 million bucks. And we don’t have that cash flow, nor do we have that appetite for debt. And yet with both the operating power of

that ⁓ Lawry’s the prime rib ⁓ model and the power of the brand. ⁓ I know it’s a good investment opportunity for at least at the outset, friends and family. And I don’t want to be getting too big into a broad capital structure, but that’s a new shift for us. And this new agreement allows us to have ⁓ a pretty open capital structure. ⁓ So we’re in the process right now of ⁓ establishing all of our kind of growth criteria.

⁓ And that strategy against where we already have opportunities and interest in different markets for growth. ⁓ And then there’s the whole component of moving my shareholders along and moving my board of directors along and how we can structure ⁓ Lawry’s within that deal that continue to present and protect the intellectual property and our licensing rights and bring current shareholders along, but not draining our cash reserves that

still need to be making distributions and taking care of our existing stores and growing the shareholder value in and of itself. ⁓

Anthony Codispoti (30:24)
I mean,

$10 million outlay, that’s pretty significant for a single location. Do you have some places earmarked that you can give voice to today?

Ryan Wilson (30:35)
⁓ Yeah, and this is more on the side of where the opportunities present and I’m approaching it with good guidance and support from my board of directors of, you need to find more or less the convergence of where the strategy is saying you need to go and where the opportunities are presenting. ⁓ And we’ve got opportunity and we’re looking at the Denver market, ⁓ looking at Phoenix and Scottsdale area, and then also looking at Florida.

I, I have a passion for, and there’s opportunity to get back to Chicago. you know, that’s a ⁓ point in our history that I overlooked that, ⁓ in 1974, ⁓ we opened ⁓ Lawry’s in Chicago and had a incredible run. And I love that city and its, ⁓ community and the hospitality there. ⁓ but we had to close that restaurant in the middle of the pandemic in a really challenging way. We, didn’t even get to get back and say goodbye to our coworkers.

you know, we had a server, Dorothy farmer that my grandfather hired in 1974. and she was still, you know, carrying a shift at the last day. So pretty amazing legacy and stories there. ⁓ and I love Chicago. mean, I could live in Chicago. ⁓ my, ⁓ my future ex wife and I’ve talked many times about moving to Chicago, but it’s a tough market right now and a really challenging, operating dynamic and, ⁓

So from that perspective, there’s some weight on the strategy side of getting back to a beloved city. ⁓ And then, yeah, some of the other strategy pieces is we’re looking at where there’s a good convergence of cost of living and then also, obviously, a demographic that is going to support a ⁓ Lawry’s check average. We’re competing up against the big steakhouse brands and where we think we

can carve out some market and where our ⁓ brand of hospitality can succeed.

Anthony Codispoti (32:40)
So these new domestic locations that you’re considering, are these going to be corporate owned or are these partnership opportunities, licensing opportunities?

Ryan Wilson (32:48)
No,

these would all be partnership opportunities. Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (32:50)
Okay. You

know, and it strikes me that there’s this balance that you’re trying to achieve between respecting the legacy of this hundred year plus brand, while at the same time looking at current conditions and where the market is going. And how do you guys move forward? It seems like this teeter totter that’s got to be tough to strike that balance. How do you approach this? How do you think of

Ryan Wilson (33:19)
⁓ You know, I, you’re absolutely right. And whether that’s in the scenario of talking to my shareholders and getting them to be comfortable with me growing the business and what that looks like, ⁓ or it’s moving along a menu, right? And moving along a legacy dining experience. And I’ll give you a ⁓ interesting, if not amusing story.

So in 2011, we were repositioning the Five Crowns down here in Corona Del Mar. And when I say repositioning, we did an interior renovation, changed kind of the look and feel of the tabletop, and then a whole new menu, new uniforms. And we did all the market study and figured where we wanted to be in the marketplace. I was the opening chef and I pushed the menu hard and made a lot of pretty dramatic changes to the menu.

without a lot of nurturing that transition. ⁓ We knew that we needed to make a shift in our guest experience because we saw a legacy diner that was coming in less often. ⁓ Unfortunately, this was 2011, so post-Great Recession, their disposable income was tightening up and so much in the world at that point was changing. And all they wanted was a consistent experience. And so I changed the example. ⁓

We traditionally would give what we call a complimentary trifle or a comp trifle, right? Layers of sponge cake with fruit and cream. ⁓ And on birthdays and anniversaries, you could get a comp trifle. And I was analyzing our dessert menu sales and saw that it was something like 40 % of guests were getting a comp trifle. Not 40 % of guests. It was like 40 % of our dessert sales that was free, right? We weren’t getting any sales off of it.

I also saw from my snooty chef background, the product wasn’t exactly where I wanted it to be. So we re-engineered the trifle and started selling it. And it was all fresh fruit and all these beautiful seasonal berries. was beautiful. And it was on the dessert menu. And then in replacement of the complimentary experience, every night before service at Preshift, we personally sign a card.

to Sally, happy 80th birthday or happy anniversary, right? we did note right at a nice note, ⁓ which I thought was a nice touch. And ⁓ I thought it was a nice way to kind of recognize their experience and their legacy and touch to the brand. And I was, we were probably about two, three weeks into opening bunch of press. I was getting a lot of presses, know, fourth generation family member. And it was, it was a little bumpy out of the gate and I was standing in the front entryway of the restaurant and

⁓ A woman walks around the corner leaving and she’s dressed to her nines, know, like, beautiful St. John’s pantsuit, hair all done, and she’s sobbing and she looks like Alice Cooper with her mascara, it’s like coursing down her face. And she walks up to me and pardon my French here. And she takes the card and she throws it at me and said, all I wanted was a piece of fucking cake and walked out of the restaurant.

And it’s still like the moment I can still see your face. gives me chills. And it was such a powerful moment of seeing that I’m not, I’m not managing a menu here. I’m managing people’s memories and emotions and their connection to, you know, she probably had 30, 40 years of memories in the restaurant with her family and celebrating. that was ⁓ a real start moment of recognizing that this is a bigger brand and opportunity.

And so incorporating that experience, you the simple philosophy is you really have to give guests an opportunity to opt into some of that change while keeping things moving. I’d also say in 2011, whether it was our menu placements or the way our family dynamics and shareholder dynamics functioned, we hadn’t been talking enough about change and it had not been part of the culture of

tomorrow we’re going to do things better than today. We’re going to give that, we’re going to really start investing in that feedback and that the flywheel potential of that feedback for improving our dining experience and moving the guests along with it. It was a problem here at the Five Crowns that our rotisserie chicken recipe had not changed in 30 years. ⁓ And no one had really looked in whether this was the best product to be putting forward. ⁓ And when we start talking about it and feeding back on

some constructive criticism ⁓ that’s ⁓ started to change. And that’s one of the tools of moving this cruise ship that is the ⁓ Lawry’s brand. ⁓ I think that, you other interesting ⁓ component of it is we talk a lot about relevance and how to incorporate relevance into our regular conversations with managers and my board and shareholders and.

Relevance to me is not being on trend, not being the hippest place, but it’s just being part of the conversation. And not just, I shouldn’t say just part of the conversation. It’s part of the decision-making process and ⁓ higher up in how people are deciding on a dining occasion. We’re getting closer to really talking about the occasion and how we can make that occasion for guests. Again, to stay not only top of mind as brand awareness, but

not a top of mind and we’re going to make an easy decision, come in for a great, consistent, wonderful dining experience and be able to create great memories, whether it’s on a Tuesday night or on Christmas Eve. I think also for our shareholders, it’s the topic of relevance is opening up and looking at it as a family enterprise and a family business and how we, not that how we compare, but where we’re doing well and where we can learn and more education on

how family members can interact and should expect from a family business and what that feedback from their experiences and their wants and needs are. ⁓ I make it a point of at least quarterly, if not monthly, I’m reaching out to our shareholders. They’re all family, they’re 18 shareholders, ⁓ but at least just touching base and sending some basic communication and checking in on what’s going on in their world. ⁓

It’s not the, I don’t want to say the best, it’s not the most motivating piece of my job, but ⁓ it’s critical. And I know that staying close to those relationships is its own way of them feeling relevant in their ownership, right? In their stewardship of the brand.

Anthony Codispoti (40:20)
And it strikes

me as here’s another area that has to be some difficult dynamics that exist, you know, managing all of the family ⁓ function that’s wrapped up in this business. mean, for you’re the fourth generation CEO, there’s, you know, aunts and uncles and cousins and you know, all kinds of offshoots. Talk to me how this works.

Ryan Wilson (40:43)
⁓ And I was gonna flippantly but honestly say it’s dysfunction. ⁓ And that’s part of the honest and the vulnerable reality of it. And it takes time to manage it and nurture it to make it run better tomorrow, right? And it’s a big piece of my responsibility ultimately. ⁓ What does it look like?

Well, let me just give a little bit more clarity. have 18, I think it’s 18 shareholders. We’re now still in the second, third and fourth generation of ownership. We have a board of directors. We meet quarterly and that rigor and discipline has been, I think, one of the real cornerstones of our success for 103 years now.

In the late 60s, ⁓ Lawry’s Foods, my grandfather actually took it public and had an experience with public markets and that level of reporting and rigor. And he really invested in that, certainly through ⁓ Lawry’s Foods and its sale, but then also brought that over to ⁓ Lawry’s restaurants. ⁓ And it’s just fundamental to our business. ⁓ I frankly have taken efforts to

to right size some of that corporate rigor. I mean, it was 10 years ago now or so, but I was developing relationships with our bank. Excuse me. And they asked me like, why are you going through the level of an audit that you go through? And I was a chef, right? I had no idea what they were talking about. And asked some better questions. And they said, no, you do a level of an audit like a publicly traded company.

Who are your stakeholders and is this the level of detail you want? so, and I, every year now we have, you know, a proper review and we definitely have the appropriate amount of rigor, but we don’t need to be on the operating table every year like we had been, right? ⁓ And yet, yeah, that structure I think is, has been key to, ⁓

key to trust and honesty. And when you have a dynamic where, you know, I’m the CEO, I’m the second largest owner in the business, my uncle, former CEO and current chairman, he’s the largest shareholder, no one has control. So we all have to get along. ⁓ And I think shareholders really rely on and are satisfied by having outside directors that do oversee the business and can give their input.

while the board, you know, it’s a big responsibility and component of what I do, of all the reporting and all that communication. But we are, I am so, so fortunate to have some amazing outside directors that are mentors and ⁓ have become close friends. And, you know, they’ve known me, there’s a gentleman, John Heil, who’s been on our board.

Oh, he’s been on our board probably 25 years. He was the former president of ⁓ Lawry’s Foods and he’s known me my whole life. And to be able to just call him very casually and check in on what’s going on in our businesses. And we actually, a couple of weeks ago, went up to San Francisco to visit House of Prime Rib, another legacy prime rib restaurant in San Francisco, because we wanted to go check it out and see what their business is looking like. And those relationships are incredibly valuable.

And so I’m very, very fortunate to be able to rely on that leadership and guidance. ⁓ Yeah, know, shareholders, ⁓ deeper within some of our dynamics and challenges, ⁓ we own the real estate underneath three of the four locations in Southern California, and they’re in separate groups and separate businesses. But in certain areas, they don’t have the same percentages ⁓ of ownership.

And so managing through those dynamics and making sure that the real estate entities are properly communicated with and keeping all that proper separation and appropriate leases and, you know, marking everything to market terms and making sure everyone understands, that we are doing things on the up and up is ⁓ a lot of communication, a lot of time and attention, but that’s what keeps these things going. Right. I mean, it’s, it’s ultimately.

really investing in transparency and being committed to the brand and committed to communicating where we’re going. ⁓

Anthony Codispoti (45:37)
family Thanksgiving meal like? You guys all get together, extended family, does everybody get along or is there some rub and maybe not everybody’s as close as they would be.

Ryan Wilson (45:48)
No, think, you know, things ebb and flow through life. Today, no, think family’s doing well. Every year we get together for a Christmas dinner. So that’ll be December 10th. And that’s where we kind of come together and celebrate how fortunate we are and some of our legacy. We traditionally would get together once a year, also have a family meeting.

And that has fallen apart a little bit and I need to pick up my responsibility there. ⁓ family in general has just been asking like, what’s the purpose of this meeting and are we moving things forward or is this just an update on ⁓ Lawry’s? We already get all the shareholder information. So we’re still figuring that all out. ⁓ Thanksgiving generally is, our family also does, I think, a good job of putting the business down.

when we come together ⁓ and ⁓ not making it about business decisions. And as I’m saying that, one of the interesting and challenging dynamics is managing that where some people want to know more, some people don’t, some people like just having being fairly passive and knowing that the brands are moving forward and the businesses are stable, either want to give you feedback and expect tight feedback.

being able to manage all of that and also say like, hey, it’s Thanksgiving and my kids are running around and I’m, you know, my third pinot deep and yeah, I’ll get back to you. Right. ⁓ so it’s good. I’m, ⁓ I’ll be up in Northern California with my mom and sister and her family in Oakland Hills and bringing my girls up as well. So, ⁓ I still love cooking Thanksgiving despite having cooked thousands of turkeys. So yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (47:45)
We never really talked yet about how you ended up getting into the family business. What’s sort of the Reader’s Digest version of that?

Ryan Wilson (47:52)
⁓ Reader’s Digest. All right. So I grew up, family business is all based in Southern California. I grew up in Northern California. ⁓ Both my parents went to Stanford and settled in the hills above Palo Alto. ⁓ And so I was not the typical restaurant brat. I did not grow up coming to the restaurants often. We’d come in for holidays. We’d come down to Southern California for a couple of weeks in summer and I’d have some interaction with the businesses. ⁓ But my mom

was amazing cook and still to this day is an amazing cook and all of that Northern California ⁓ culture of food was very much instilled in me from a very early age. ⁓ However, ⁓ I grew up a super picky eater. I ate shades of beige, as I say, until I was in college. And that’s like, know, chicken alfredo pasta, dry hamburgers, french fries, baked potatoes, couscous, right? Like it was that.

color palette of food. ⁓ But since I was about eight years old, I would wake up on Saturday mornings and watch cooking shows instead of cartoons. And I loved ⁓ the technique and the kind of alchemy of cooking and the culture of it. I was a early ⁓ KQED, the local public television station in San Francisco, did a lot of production in Burt Wolf’s Table and early Jacques Pepin and Julia Childs. And I loved it.

Loved it. And so I was about 10 years old or so, and I just started being my mom’s kind of prep cook, sous chef, and I’d make vinaigrettes and work on my knife skills and grill for them, and I wouldn’t eat any of it. And my mom and my sister were, you know, they loved it. ⁓ And then I went to undergrad, went to Pomona College, ⁓ where we’ve got a ⁓ long and proud family history. And again, until my junior year when I was studying abroad in Australia, ⁓

I had a very narrow flavor profile. ⁓ I started eating Caesar salad at that point, but little else. And then the light switch went off and it was like, my goodness, like get over this control dynamic and start trying things. And that’s where the light switch flipped. It was one night, my roommate, ⁓ she said, you know, I’m, I’m, craving Mongolian beef. You think you could do that for dinner? And I was like, yeah, I’ll try. And, ⁓ and that was the first moment where it was kind of connecting.

the dots really and enjoying it myself. And then, you I came back from that abroad experience and I was, I’d go to the dining halls and I’d make vinaigrettes and a little solo cup for myself. And then before long I’m making it for the whole table and it just started to grow really naturally and in a wonderful way. And then senior year of my undergrad, I started working at ⁓ the Tamar Shander and ⁓ Lawry’s Prime Rib in the kitchens. ⁓

Wednesday and Friday nights. I was interested in, certainly I loved cooking ⁓ and I was starting to get interested in ⁓ the engine of our business and how that works and functions. ⁓ Not really knowing where it was going to go. ⁓ And then I just started cooking. ⁓ I worked here at the Five Crowns after graduation for six months as a prep cook. And then I recognized ⁓

I needed to get some experience outside of the family business. And so, yeah, left for about six years, went into fine dining, mostly in Northern California, spent two and a half years at a small French restaurant called La Toque in Napa. And then that chef sent me to Italy for the first time and had the great opportunity of working in a two-star restaurant in Umbria called La Bastiglia and connected with the famous Tuscan butcher Dario Schikini.

and had an amazing opportunity to open his first restaurant called Solo Chicha. I then came back to San Francisco, worked for Mike Tusk at Quince for a year ⁓ and learned a tremendous amount about food and cooking and local food shed. I mean, it was a hyper, hyper seasonal menu. ⁓ I could handle any product and still can to this day. ⁓ But I also learned a lot of bad lessons on leadership.

and ⁓ just some of the real challenging dynamics of running a kitchen at that level. yeah, 2008, ⁓ spent a year there and resigned as sous chef position at Quince and came back to ⁓ Lawry’s ⁓ to be their culinary development chef. It was kind of a part-time gig. I led the opening in Shanghai for about three months and then… ⁓

in September 2008, opened Osaka location ⁓ and really enjoyed it. I enjoyed being back in the family business and yet struggled with seeing where my culinary trajectory was going and whether I wanted to come back to the family business. ⁓ I obviously elected to come back to the family business and it was one, I was a phenomenal cook at that point, but I didn’t know anything about the business. I didn’t know how to make.

make any decisions on menu pricing or how to run a business. And I recognized that this needed to shift from being just a ⁓ kind of craft oriented passion and into something that’s, you know, can really build a business and contribute. And I also wanted to come spend time with my grandparents and ⁓ Richard and Mary Alice Frank were amazing people, truly the best version of a matriarch and patriarch. And I

came back to Southern California and lived with them more or less for about four years and helped them through the later part of their life and got some great memories and they became truly close, close friends in addition to me and my grandparents. So it was, was the right path for me and a really, it’s a piece of my story I’m really proud of. And in that process, I got some great.

Anthony Codispoti (53:59)
That’s really cool.

Ryan Wilson (54:10)
business opportunities. opened side door, we opened a couple other carvery, our quick casual locations, and just moved my way up through the business, managing our businesses and got onto our board of directors in 2014. And then in 2000, was Thanksgiving of 2016. And a gentleman who’s still on our board, Scott Barnett, and again, another one of my dear friends and mentors.

⁓ He was considering ⁓ an interim COO position within our business. And he ended up not taking the position and he more or less got coached by private equity. And he was going to be a person that was going to help mentor me into the CEO role. My uncle was CEO, but our dynamic and who he is as a leader, just he’s not the mentoring type. And I think we all kind of recognize that. And yet Scott,

got poached. so ⁓ Nicole, my ex-wife said to me, know, now’s the time if you want to, to go back to business school. And I said, you know, you’re crazy. had an 18 month old and a three month old. And in six weeks time, in the holiday period, I studied for the GMAT and

took the tests and applied to some business schools and threw some applications out there and ended up getting into a great executive program at Stanford and went back to business school, 2017, 2018 for a year back up in the Bay Area and brought the kids and we lived in two different dorms and yeah, went back into a very immersive business program while still.

helping manage the business was about 30 % time at ⁓ Lawry’s and then Rett’s focused on business school. And unfortunately I lost my father to really aggressive prostate cancer in the same period of time. ⁓ it ⁓ was definitely a seminal moment in my life and ⁓ my kids as well and in our marriage. ⁓ But then came back and started to continue to move up through the business. ⁓

Anthony Codispoti (56:09)
Wow.

Ryan Wilson (56:35)
I was the chief marketing and strategy officer. ⁓ And at that point I had hired another corporate chef. So I wasn’t hands-on in the kitchens, but still overseeing kind of our menu direction and strategy. ⁓ Guided us through a repositioning of the ⁓ Lawry’s the Prime Rib brand. We launched a whole new menu and not a whole new menu.

Larry’s the prime rib has always been the focal point, but we strategically needed to expand the menu. We had a big renovation to the dining room and managed all of that change and implementation ⁓ for our locations. And we ran them. All the changes went incredibly well ⁓ for in total about seven months and then COVID hit and everything shut down. Yeah, I don’t know how much time you have for our podcast, but that’s a whole nother story of

Anthony Codispoti (57:21)
Yeah.

Ryan Wilson (57:28)
⁓ managing through that crisis. ⁓ It had been a plan for me to become CEO in April of 2020. You know, and we closed all of our restaurants in March 8th of 2020. ⁓ moving through that big transition succession plan ⁓ paused for about three months and I became CEO in July of 2020.

At a time when we just had the first tranche of PPP money and I fortunately was living next door to the Five Crowns. So I was here every day where I ran the business from one of our private dining rooms for two years, just in a set up office. And it was a crazy, crazy time of every day. It was a firefight. So. ⁓

Anthony Codispoti (58:18)
What was

your best coping strategy getting through that getting through the passing of your father and you’ve mentioned ex-wife so there’s a you know a divorce there.

Ryan Wilson (58:29)
⁓ I would say moving forward, lots of big life events and I, today, so yes, I’m a year into a divorce, two great kids and they’re doing great and we’re figuring out, know, co-parenting of little kids. We’re incredibly fortunate. ⁓ Our marriage didn’t work, but we’re great parents. have very fortunate where we live.

Anthony Codispoti (58:32)
Lots of big life events.

Ryan Wilson (58:58)
We live a three minute walk apart and ⁓ we’ve got so much to be really appreciative for. ⁓ But I think one of the grounding moments through COVID and through where I am today is really staying present in the moment and the idea of taking the next indicated step, ⁓ managing the multi-dimensionality of COVID and all of the scenario planning we had to do.

⁓ was critically important, yet you still had to make a decision today, right? You still had to stay within your process and stay within what you do know and stay really rooted in your values and morals and ⁓ keeping that good compass of knowing you’re a good person. And ⁓ I think also I have in the business world and in the personal world surrounded myself with close friends and a great team of physical therapists and

You know, I’ve had back surgery at a disc replacement a year and a half ago. so great, you know, you just got to keep a great team around you, ⁓ and be vulnerable and recognize when you’re in pain, whether that’s emotionally or physically and go, ⁓ put that fire out. You know, I, at business school, I took a class from Joel Peterson. Who’s the, ⁓ I don’t know if he is today, but he was longtime CEO jet blue, ⁓ amazing man. And, ⁓

He said, you know, in business leadership, you got to be a firefighter. You really have to, when you see something that’s burning, could get out of control, you got to walk towards these problems. And whether that’s a difficult conversation or, you know, having to furlough 600 people, you got to continue to move towards a resolution rather than away from it. And so I think from that wisdom and yeah, it’s just staying really focused on today.

For example, ⁓ I’ve got all sorts of things I’m processing through on the divorce side, but ultimately I just came back from Asia for a week and I’ve got my kids picking up from school in an hour and a half and I’m excited about being a dad and being mindful of shifting to their level of energy and who I need to be in that role and ⁓ just stay honest in that process.

Anthony Codispoti (1:01:22)
of it. Ryan, I’ve just got one more question for you today. But before I ask it, I want to take care of three quick things. First of all, anybody who wants to get in touch directly with Ryan, his email address is rwilson at lorriesonline.com should be pronounced lorries but just so you get the spelling correct lorriesonline.com rwilson at lorriesonline.com. And as a reminder, if you want to get

your employees access to benefits that won’t hurt them financially and carries a financial upside for the company, reach out to us at adbackbenefits.com. And finally, if you’ll take just a moment to leave us a comment or review on your favorite podcast app, you’ll hold a special place in my heart forever. Thank you. Last question for you, Ryan, a year from now, what is something that you hope to be celebrating?

Ryan Wilson (1:02:11)
Great question. And I’m going to pause and say I do intend to follow up with you on some of the benefits side. think, know, co-worker retention ⁓ and right sizing benefits across the board to where we are in employment and today in our different markets is a great opportunity and really ⁓ something valued for us and our legacy. So I definitely will follow up with you on that. ⁓ You know, a year out.

⁓ I’ll say a couple things. ⁓ A year out, I hope I have a great settlement to my divorce on all sides. I hope we’re continuing to move along ⁓ in raising our beautiful daughters. ⁓ And I’ve been to every indication we’re moving in the right direction there. So that’s number one. ⁓ Business-wise, yeah. ⁓

We are in the midst of a lot of change at ⁓ Lawry’s and one of the pieces we didn’t talk about is just my team and where we’ve come in a pretty tremendous evolution ⁓ and a really important woman to our company and to me personally and professionally, Tiffany Stith is retiring from ⁓ Lawry’s after 20 plus years. She’s our chief operating officer and president and a dear friend and mentor to me. ⁓

Yeah, just continuing to manage through that transition. ⁓ She’s going to be going on into, ⁓ I don’t even know what to call it. I guess it’s corporate leadership, but that doesn’t give the right power to who she is as a leader. She’s got a long HR background. ⁓ And so she’s going to spend some time with each one of our senior leaders ⁓ and have an ongoing kind of ⁓ consulting arrangement where she can be helping our leaders position the decision they’re making or where they are.

in a challenge ⁓ and helping them make better decisions rather than making decisions for them. ⁓ And so working through that transition and being here in a year’s time and talk about where we are and how our business is growing and how I’m building a team around me and my vision ⁓ and staying close to all of our great people with Tiffany and support is where I, you know, something I really want to be celebrating.

Anthony Codispoti (1:04:36)
I’m Wilson from Laurie’s Restaurants. I want to be the first to thank you for sharing both your time and your story with us today. I really appreciate it.

Ryan Wilson (1:04:43)
Likewise, Anthony, really a wonderful time with you today and to everyone out there have a safe and wonderful holiday season.

Anthony Codispoti (1:04:50)
Folks, that’s a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories podcast. Thanks for learning with us today.