How Mike Ehrle Is Using Lumity to Fix What’s Broken in Employee Benefits

Anthony Codispoti (00:00)
Welcome to another edition of the inspired stories podcast where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired by how they’ve overcome adversity. My name is Anthony Codaspodi and today’s guest is Mike Early. He serves as the managing partner at Lumity where they partner with employers and employees to drive a competitive benefits program and a great experience. Mike is also the CEO and founder of FinParency.

an investment technology company dedicated to helping small businesses match with the right investors and reach investment grade status. They focus on guiding businesses to increase their value, connect them with qualified investors, and facilitate strategic moves for better growth. Additionally, over the years, he has held leadership roles at organizations like Clickboarding and Alight Solutions, helping expand their market presence and drive strategic partnerships.

Also is an Eagle Scout from the Boy Scouts of America, demonstrating his commitment to service and leadership since 1993. Now, before we get into all that good stuff, today’s episode is brought to you by my company, Adback Benefits Agency, where we offer very specific and unique employee benefits that are both great for your team and fiscally optimized for your bottom line. Imagine being able to give your employees free access to doctors, therapists, and prescription medications. And here’s the fun part.

the program actually puts more money into your employees’ pockets. And the companies too. One recent client was able to increase net profits by $900 per employee per year. Now results vary for each company and some organizations may not be eligible. To find out if your company qualifies, contact us today at addbackbenefits.com. All right, back to our guest today, managing partner at Lumity and CEO and founder of Fimparency, Mike Early. Thanks for making the time to share your story today.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (01:59)
Thanks for having me, Anthony. It’s good to be here.

Anthony Codispoti (02:01)
So Mike, you’ve spent years doing some pretty innovative work in the insurance industry. How did you first get a foothold in the space?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (02:08)
I started in finance and ⁓ graduating from Drake University in Des Moines, Iowa. Lovely, very balmy Des Moines, Iowa.

I wanted to stay and become an investment banker, but that didn’t work out. And so I was looking around for roles and ended up at what’s known as a TPA. CNA Health Partners was the name as a financial analyst. And in order to do that role well, you had to know the ins and outs of medical claims and how the dollars move and the operations. And so I ended up understanding the business and getting thrown into the mix of TPAs and claims. And we owned our own network and it was really an interesting

way to understand the benefit space. So that’s how I got into it and really loved the area.

Anthony Codispoti (02:56)
And so from there, what would you say was your next most formidable stop?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (03:02)
I was excited to join in a sales capacity any way I could. So even though I started in a finance role, thought this sucks. This sucks so much. was, God I didn’t become an investment banker. I am so glad I did not do that. Even though now I’m on the periphery of it with the other business with the currency, but I’m so glad I didn’t do that. So no offense to investment bankers. They’re great and needed. I…

Anthony Codispoti (03:12)
Okay, you wanted the people interaction.

It’s just not your DNA.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (03:31)
I made the hop because I was willing to do anything I could to be in a true sales role, started at the very bottom at United Health Group.

And actually it was a vision company that United Health Group ended up buying and was almost fired six months into it. But that was my big hop was moving from CNA Health Partners in a finance role into a sales role, a traditional pick up the phone, get your foot in the door sales role that became United Health Group. even though I was almost fired six months into it, I figured it out with two great mentors that kicked my butt and learned

a ton and ended up having a successful career at United Health Group and other places.

Anthony Codispoti (04:16)
And so what was it that you were doing or not doing at the up to that six month mark that almost got you fired?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (04:22)
I was waiting for the phone to ring. I’ll never forget I was living in downtown Chicago. was newly married. We got married young, 23. I was living in my condo in downtown Chicago. Took the second bedroom. I remember buying a desk, putting the desk in, and I’m in a sales role now. This is, you the internet’s new still at that moment. And I thought, okay.

I called these folks once. They’re going to follow up and they’re going to have proposals for me. What do I need to do? Just go wait. Wait for the phone to ring.

and my boss, Tom Davis, who I now view as just nearly a family member. That’s how much I love this guy. He lives in Indianapolis, but Tom Davis realized you need a real sales manager and he brought in a real sales manager, Lou Formantini and Lou Formantini. hated that guy for the first year and then we became such close friends and he kicked my butt in an era where you were allowed to probably do that more than today. And I learned the ins and outs of what

needed to do to just the grit required to make that work both through brokers and calling directly to employers and it worked out.

Anthony Codispoti (05:37)
So what

was the general framework that he taught you? it call follow up once a week? Was it make a hundred calls a day? What was the structure he kind of put in place?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (05:47)
Know your stuff was the first thing that Lou taught me. Know your stuff, his favorite trick and everybody who worked for Lou fell into this. In fact, I need to share that I’m talking about Lou on this with him. He lives in Glenview in Illinois, believe. Haven’t talked to him in a couple of years, he’s so great. But Lou, you’d walk into an office building, all right? And let’s say I was going to your office and you were on the third floor.

and I’m going up and I don’t just immediately go to the elevator. I have to go to the board and look up what floor you’re on. He knew right then, bam, you don’t know your market. You don’t know the people you’re calling on.

So he had these just little things to know if you were really getting to know the brokers in your marketplace as a carrier rep then or the employers in your territory You’re calling on them and visiting them so much Where you just know the phone numbers and you know exactly where they’re located That was the grit required at least then I still believe that can happen If you’re willing to commit the time and you visit you go out there, you know your market, you know your people you

know the prospects. That’s what he expected. And it sounds so silly and well, who wouldn’t do that? No one does that today. No one does that today. But that’s what you were supposed to do. And I learned through Lou that that was the expectation. And it saved me. I learned a lot by doing it.

Anthony Codispoti (07:14)
You sit

and make you say nobody does that today. Was anybody doing that yesterday? You know, when you were doing it, or was that still a pretty rare thing?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (07:23)
I think it was, I don’t know if it was universal, but it was certainly not abnormal.

It was uncomfortable. That’s always been consistent. Doing that was inconsistent. Showing up to a Fortune 500 reception desk and asking for fill in the blank who leads HR. You know, that would work one out of 100 times, but it was a little bit more common then because LinkedIn wasn’t around. I don’t think LinkedIn came out until 2005 or six. At least that’s when I started using it. People weren’t on LinkedIn. So they’re the old school way work. People weren’t

inundated with emails from carrier representatives and marketing firms and all this other stuff. So I do think it was a little bit more common and due to AI, ironically, it will be coming back. It will be coming back in two to three years. It will be amazing. Don’t do it now.

Anthony Codispoti (08:15)
Oh, let’s put a pin in that AI.

Yeah, let’s put a pin in the AI part. But first I want to go back to how you were doing it. And you’re going into these Fortune 500 reception desks. How are you getting past the reception desk?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (08:29)
You have to be very creative. I’m not saying lie. You weren’t lying.

But you would have to very, very nicely ask. remember, ⁓ I never got to meet her. So this was a failure, but I remember the name Jane Carpenter worked at Johnson Controls. I called on Jane Carpenter so many times on Johnson Controls. Her area code was 262. I don’t remember the rest of the phone number, but I called her so many times. She probably has PTSD to this day. If she were to see her, hear my name. She never returned them. But then her office being in Milwaukee, I would drive from

Chicago and I would do my routine in Wisconsin, my territory, and I would stop by Johnson Controls and say to the reception desk, I’ve been trying to meet Jane for a couple of weeks here. I have some information for her. We are United Health Group and this is what we’re doing and I’d the opportunity to meet her. And ⁓ sometimes I might say, I’ve left a couple messages for Jane. She’s called me back. We’ve been playing tag. I thought I would just stop it and see if she had 10 minutes.

Anthony Codispoti (09:33)
We’re taking

the truth and you were stretching it pretty thin. Okay. So you learned so, so, so these more aggressive sales tactics had, yeah, it’s something that has continued to carry forward. Yeah. And so what the philosophy is just kind of wear them down. Okay.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (09:35)
Maybe a little, maybe a little, just a few that. Sounds terrible to me.

It was aggressive.

which no one likes.

You have to

if you It’s terrible to say that but it’s not it’s reality. I Viewed it and this is what Lou taught me. I Viewed it as Do you have a number? Yes. Do you want to hit your number? Yes, I’d like to exceed that I’d like to be number one Then what are you gonna do to be number one?

And it really sounds so rudimentary and again, cheesy and aggressive and anything you want to fill in the blank on that the adjectives. But I think of that Alec Baldwin classic series ABCs always be closing, which is now politically incorrect to bring up to a sales team. can’t, know, salesperson number one gets a car salesperson number two gets steak knives. Salesperson number three gets fired. I think that’s it. So

But it’s the reality. Do you want to win or do you not? And in that kind of role, when you have an aggressive goal and you have a finite period of time to do it, what are you going to do to hit your goal? And if it is, I’m to sit on LinkedIn and send emails out all day, then welcome to failure. Because that’s going to be failure.

And ⁓ I struggle with this even internally with our sales team. We’re using models that reach out and we’re sending these things out all the time. And I don’t know. I don’t think all that works as well because as a buyer now, I’m a buyer. I’m inundated with that. I get email crap all the time and I do not respond to it. But.

In the event someone were to send me something actually in the mail, if that were to actually occur, they went through the effort to figure out where I am, which they would find out I’m in my home. So actually, I don’t want to encourage people to do this. But I would be blown away. I don’t remember the last time in 10 years that happened.

Anthony Codispoti (11:56)
And so is that what you think works today? You’re saying the emails, the LinkedIn’s, they don’t work.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (11:59)
I’m saying you better be creative and different.

What are you going to be to be different? How about you find out where your decision maker works and you send them a FedEx with nothing more than a handwritten letter in the FedEx. That would work. That would at least be read because a FedEx has to go through all the hoops versus you just throw it in the mail. That might work.

And if it’s a foreign letter, if it’s typed out, I may not read it. It’s handwritten. I’m reading the note.

I think you have to be creative and different and a little old school. And that’s how you’re going to have a little bit more success today. I am not knocking all the wonderful systems. I work in three technology organizations. I understand technology is needed. ⁓ However, everybody’s using those tools. In fact, I’m in the middle of talking to two outsourced firms on dialing up, technologies to help us be more efficient in what we’re doing.

⁓ including creative LinkedIn videos that take my face and my voice although my voice is going today unfortunately. Excuse me for that. But those are interesting tools but ⁓ they’re still used by others. What else can you do that differentiates you?

Anthony Codispoti (13:25)
Now, a few moments ago, you said with AI, you think some of the old school knocking on the doors is going to come back into vogue, so to speak.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (13:35)
Absolutely. Absolutely. And just what I used as an example, this company I’m talking to, they’re in England. I was just on the phone with their founder and their founder showed me this technology. I make one video, then this founder is going to take my video and my voice when my voice is on a good day and replicate it for everybody that we’re calling on country-wide.

And this is how he got my attention, by the way. He used his own technology and he got my attention in LinkedIn. He created a video and he said, hey Mike, I’m Jay. I’m doing X, Y, and Z. This is the company and the solution that we have. I’d love to talk to you. I like, that’s interesting. I had no clue it was AI designed for me and he had recorded it one time.

This will work for the next year. It’s creative. It’s unique. And then none of us are going to start to believe these videos. None of us. And so ⁓ if you are an aggressive salesperson, what will start to work?

to the old school routines, it’s going to have to get to face-to-face meetings. You won’t believe a video. You won’t believe a voicemail. You won’t believe it. How could you? And there’s too much fraud now coming from it. So what are we going to do to believe it?

face-to-face meetings. I believe in two to three years, maybe four, the era of the face-to-face meeting will skyrocket. In-person iterations will skyrocket. I’d even argue being back in a corporate office will skyrocket for that reason alone.

Anthony Codispoti (15:16)
Yeah.

because you can believe what your own eyes can see in person, but everything else you’re gonna question.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (15:23)
Yeah, now I really know you’re sitting in Columbus. You’re sitting at your office and you’re Anthony. I know that because we haven’t gotten to the point of sophistication with AI that we can, that I could hold a real conversation with a made up version of you powered by let’s say Anthropic. But in two years that probably will exist. And then I don’t know if I’m really talking to Anthony.

Anthony Codispoti (15:44)
So.

Yeah, then we’ve really passed the Turing test at that point. So speaking of technology, let’s talk about the technology that you’re involved with. ⁓ Let’s first talk about Lumity. How did that opportunity come about?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (16:05)
There’s a ⁓ good friend of mine I’ve known for 15 years.

And I have my two startups going. One of them I’m a partner in, the other one is my baby from currency. I have these two things going. And my buddy calls me twice at Alera, the corporate company. And he says, I really could use your help on this company we own called Lumity. And I turned him down twice. Very nicely. I love this guy. Turned him down twice. I mean, this guy’s gold. His name is Brad. He’s one of the most authentic humans I know. So the third time

He’s in Atlanta, this is last year, and he said, I really want to meet you in person and talk about Lumity. So said, okay, okay, we had a cocktail, got together, ⁓ met somebody else on their leadership team, and he said, we really would like your help at Lumity, and I finally opened my ears as to what Lumity is solving for. And I thought, that’s pretty cool.

This is really neat. And I said, but I still don’t have time. Well, I do have time because the imparency is still an incubator stage. We’re about to have a V zero launch in the next few months, but it’s not occupying all my time. And the other one that I’m a partner in is passive. So that’s not occupying all my time. So I could do something. And he and I worked through the particulars of how this could work. And I’m probably putting so much time into Lumity that I need to back down a little. I’m driving my

team at Lumity insane. So I’m trying to monitor that but I’m really intrigued by what we’re solving for at Lumity. Which you’re about to ask, what is that?

Anthony Codispoti (17:43)
That’s exactly what I’m gonna ask. You set me up very well. There was something you heard at the bar that night over cocktails that you’re like, okay, I’m in.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (17:50)
It is the right combination between technology and human interaction in a brokerage firm, starting with medical, but everything else really for small group employers. I’ve been in enterprise sales my entire career. This is the first time I’ve been in small market.

at or even the lower end of middle market. So our clients traditionally are let’s say 50 to 200 employees fully insured and ⁓

Rarely are they even what’s called level funded or self funded. This is a combination of very sophisticated clients that are predominantly technology clients. A lot of our client bases in California or New York, but we’re sprouting out to all verticals now, but

It is a solution that allows for a small business employer to be an extension of their HR team and we become the benefits team. We are the benefit administrator, what’s known as agency software, which allows us to compare all the renewals for each year and make sure it’s the most competitive and how to negotiate with that carrier and come up the right contributions in the software. We’re eligibility verification, which is not a fun part of the business,

but so important for our clients. We are year-round concierge service for all their employees. And we are the experts that negotiate with the carriers. We are the broker and ⁓ we do all the implementation work. So we’re kind of a full shot solution for a small business employer. And why it’s an extension of their HR team is most of those small business employers have an HR leader normally with a compensation or a talent background.

not a benefits background. And so we become the benefits experts and they need our help and we guide them through this craziness that’s going on in the industry around medical renewal specifically and everything else that surrounds it.

Anthony Codispoti (19:55)
So

what is different about what you do there on a digital platform versus what a traditional broker does?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (20:02)
Traditional broker can do everything but they’re normally doing it manually or in an Excel spreadsheet.

And so we take a lot of that work and we put it in a technology that allows us to interface directly with all the carriers, get their information, import it right on in so that all the renewals that are happening, which we’re in middle of that fund, is happening real time with the carriers. And so if you’re Blue Cross Blue Shield in a particular state or you’re UnitedHealthcare or Aetna or Asigna, we can interface with you through the technology and then we can take all those

plan designs and spread it out. So that allows us to scale in the small business space to do that work at a traditional brokerage firm.

is so many back and forth emails and phone calls with all the different carriers that you’re not efficient. We still have to do a touch of that. But normally we do all of that in the software and it allows us to control it and at a push of a button, and this is abnormal, make it transparent for the client to see. Most brokers get their most favorable quote and they say, client, this is our recommendation.

We don’t do that. We’re taking everything that the market gave us, pushing the button and letting our clients see it. And so they’re not just getting our recommendation, which we still give them, but they’re seeing it around all the options as they came in. The transparency is gold.

Anthony Codispoti (21:37)
Yeah, really important. ⁓ You know, I’m sure that most brokers don’t do this, but there’s the potential for them to be driven by, you know, where they’re getting sort of the best commission from to steer what their recommendation might be. And in this case, you have your recommendation, but you’re letting them see all the other quotes that came in.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (21:57)
Yeah, I mean you’ve been in the business. I know in the benefit space at Adback Benefits, you’re doing a lot of different things here and you have to interface with different carriers. There’s efficient ways that you come up with to do that work.

So you’ve gotten very efficient at your role and I don’t know every part of your business, but I know it’s very effective and it’s efficient and you’ve seen the alternative. When others don’t do that, it’s a competitive advantage for you. So we’re using it as a competitive advantage for us. And the way that this software has been designed, it allows us to be more effective, be not only for the client, but the end users, the members.

This is so critical in an era right now where clients, especially in the fully insured space, are seeing 30, 40, 50 % medical renewals. This is the year where you need these types of capabilities.

Anthony Codispoti (22:50)
No. And I’m guessing the reason why your target client is somewhere between 50 and 200 employees is that 200 is kind of the cap that you would traditionally see being fully insured. And the benefit of your platform, one of them anyways, is that it allows for the different plan designs, the different pricing to come in from all these different carriers and be viewed and evaluated in an efficient way.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (23:16)
We can differentiate greatly in this space. We can differentiate for 3,000 life employers. And we have a couple that are larger, that are technology companies. Oddly, they’re still fully insured because it really helps with cost modeling and budgeting. And when you’re a fast growing tech company, that…

⁓ predictability is critical. But yes, is the answer to your question. It allows us to differentiate so uniquely in that 50 to 200 employee life space that we’re really learning. We’ve done this effectively outside of Alera directly to all these employers across the country. Now we created it so the hundreds and thousands actually of smart producers and consultants inside Alera can use this as a tool for their practice as well, which is

how we operate this business.

Anthony Codispoti (24:09)
You know, that actually you bring up something I’ve often wondered about. You know, most employers I come across that are, you know, have hundreds of employees. They’re typically, you know, some level funded fully or self-insured. But I’ll come across employers that have a thousand employees, 5,000 employees the other day that are fully insured outside of the.

⁓ Use case that you just mentioned, you know, if you’re a fast growing tech company having that budgeting can be really helpful What might be some other reasons that groups of that size would continue to be fully insured?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (24:42)
Well, I don’t know. They might just be so risk averse that they don’t want to deal with ⁓ the alternatives. But frankly, I don’t understand a 5,000 life employer being fully insured.

I don’t understand. I’d love to dig in and learn more. To me, it has to be predictability. That must be what they’re doing. But I think they should have a conversation with some other brokers and consultants because you could come up with the predictability with the right type of mix between your TPA, your ⁓ how your your claims projections are coming in and the right stop loss levels, which is known as in essence, reinsurance.

So you have your UnitedHealthcare, Asigna, Aetna, Blues, they become your network plan and you can use a TPA to pay your claims and your staff loss takes the risk out of it. So I don’t know why someone would do that at a 5,000 employee life stage. They’re taking on probably 7 to 10 % more costs than they need to. I don’t get it. Have you come across a reason?

Anthony Codispoti (25:53)
significant. ⁓

I have it now.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (25:59)
I’m really

mystified by that, but every once in a while you’ll come across it. It has to be CFO budgeting and maybe they’re going to go through an event at that company, ⁓ some &A event in the near future and it’s easier to not deal with that liability, but they can neutralize after your stop loss.

Anthony Codispoti (26:01)
Yeah.

Yeah. So they invited you to come in, they really wanted your help there at Lumity. Was it particularly on growth management? Or were there other things in your background, your skill sets that they wanted to tap into?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (26:32)
They liked the way that I led other entities, probably my network too.

So, and I don’t mean this doesn’t sound very humble, but I’m relatively well networked in the industry. And so that really helps in what we’re going to do with Lumity. So Lumity current space is really cool as a current solution. What we’re going to turn Lumity into is exceptional. And that’s going to require partnerships and some other things. And my network can help with that.

So it’s a combination of experience and distribution and go to market. And I started in finance, so I do still wear that hat to a degree in my head, even though I don’t love it. ⁓ I never want to be a CFO. God bless you, CFOs. But then also my network allows me to ⁓ just avail us to some things that could make this different.

Anthony Codispoti (27:29)
So what can you tell us about where Lumity is going? What are you turning it into?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (27:34)
This is going to be an absolute starship for a rocket ship, for the small business space. What we’re doing today and the solutions we have in Lumini are great.

We are going to expand that solution set and make it ⁓ accessible to so many more small business employers, both outside of Allera and as a product inside Allera for all of our wonderful producers and consultants. So there’s more things that we’re going to add into this that I’m not going to say in a podcast.

Anthony Codispoti (28:07)
Fair enough.

What kind of partnerships do you have you found useful to this point and what kinds of partnerships are you seeking in the future?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (28:15)
Yeah, as an example, we’re not going to own our own bin admin company. Not that I’ve heard. So not owning our own bin admin company means we need to outsource the bin admin work that we’re doing inside Lumity. We do that today through a partner. They’re fine. But are they the right one to scale with us? I don’t know. They may not be. Are they delivering to us the way they need to? I’m not trying to send a secret message to them. I’m rather just simply saying.

there is, ⁓ that’s a great example of a partnership that’s critical and a partnership where our team needs to be able to run that software and be able to get on the hot phone, the bat line and get whomever they need to at a specialty level inside that Ben Admin organization in a second. And that’s where a partnership really matters. And if we don’t have that, if we’re not able to get that, then it’s not going to be a partnership we keep.

So those are the types of partnerships where ⁓ in the heat of the fight, you need to be able to get that partner on the phone. And if you don’t have the ability to do that, it’s not going to work out. And that’s where our relationship matters and respect. We are not bullies to our partners and our carriers and everything. ⁓ We partner and that’s critical in this.

Anthony Codispoti (29:42)
Tell me about finparency. Where did the idea for this come about?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (29:46)
finparency is a two-sided marketplace between small business employers and the world of private equity, family offices, bankers, and the ecosystem. And I was running ClickBorning for three years.

which is an HR tech company, great company. I was there for three years CEO and over the period of time of running that company, see I’m going to get passionate here, I’ll try to contain myself, but I received 281 phone calls from private equity groups. I know it was 281 because I kept a list on my little remarkable notepad of every single one.

And I thought, well, this must be unique because we’re an HR tech company. And it was not. And the more research I did, the more I learned that there’s 4,500 private equity groups in the United States. There’s 4,000 family offices. There’s 600 investment banking firms. And that’s before all the strategic buyers and the lawyers and all the others that are in this ecosystem.

calling on all kinds of sized employers, but when they’re calling on small business employers, there’s three million of those in the United States. And there’s a paralyzing effect when you’re running, I’ll call it Mike’s Muffler Shop, when you’re running a muffler shop and you’ve run it for 25 years and you’re getting phone calls from private equity groups.

and I’m not stereotyping, but Mike of Mike’s Muffler Shop may not know the world of private equity. And so he doesn’t take the phone calls. And these private equity groups and all these family offices had huge business development teams and they can’t get the business owners to take their phone calls. And I learned when 281 people were calling on me, I decided to take some of those calls.

And I started to learn from those phone calls I was taking that, my gosh, there’s an unmet need on both sides of this equation.

So that’s why I’m launching FinParency, but that’s only where it starts. How does the AI engine match up the right private equity groups that you should talk to and who should the private equity groups be talking to on the small business side? And they will actually take the phone call because the technology will encourage that. But moreover, how to get the mics of Mike’s Muffler shops to investment grade to make them two years down the road, extremely valuable. There’s certain things they need to do and we’re going to help them through that.

Anthony Codispoti (32:22)
And so is part of what you need to do just to recruit Mike’s muffler shops all over the country and help them understand that this is even an option for them. then what you’re nodding your head. Yes. And then from there, you have to educate them on the process and how to, you know, get their books in order and how to make them, as you called it, investment ready.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (32:44)
Yeah, I want to be the platform across the board that does that work. And then bring in the experts across the realm.

of this ecosystem, all the crime families that are out there, allow them to meet the crime families by category. If we find out as an example in the software, and we’re going to surround our software with experts that work for transparency, that are building relationships with those business owners to your point, which is why I was nodding my head. But the external crime families of this universe, we’re going to bring it to the fold via the platform. So, okay, we find out that you don’t have the right insurance.

Who are the right brokers they should talk to to make that happen? We find out that you don’t have a succession plan. Who are the right coaches to help them get through that? We find out that you don’t have the right books in order. They need a different accounting firm or lawyers.

They might need the red team, if you will, to come in and be the excellent consultants to guide them through other dynamics of their business that will hold them back from getting the valuation they want. What if they don’t have a CRM in place? And even if you own a muffler shop, you actually need to know who your clients are. And your buyers will penalize you and penalize your value if you don’t have those things in order.

Anthony Codispoti (34:06)
Which part of this equation do you think will be most challenging? Finding the Mike’s Muffler shops and recruiting them into the platform or finding all the private equity, venture capital, et cetera, et cetera, and bringing them in?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (34:19)
Well, I think it’s going to be the small business employer. And this goes full circle. And I wasn’t expecting this. earlier in this discussion, I brought up calling on employers and getting out there and meeting people again. Well, that’s exactly what we’re going to do at Comparency to meet these business owners. It’s one thing to have a technology and a platform, but to get a business owner to use it, they need to put

face with a name. So, the transparency, we’re going to have people that get out there and meet those business owners. And I will be starting that soon.

Anthony Codispoti (34:58)
What do you think that looks like? This is, ⁓ I don’t know, like you’re building up teams in each geography or you pick a geography at a time. Hey, we’re going to start with Atlanta and I got a team of five or 10 and go. And then once we feel like we’ve got this area blanketed, then we go to another one. What’s, I don’t know, just throwing out ideas. What’s your strategy?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (35:20)
Anthony, when I started my career, I already shared with this audience, when I started my career, the medical and ancillary insurers, the carriers, used to have sales representative schools.

And even at CNA Health Partners, where I started my career, we trained the hell out of everyone on understanding the ins and outs of medical economics, health economics, everything you would need to know. This leads to your question. I’m going to bring that concept into finparency. And I’m going to not steal, but repeat the enterprise rental car model. Enterprise rental car out of St. Louis is known for going into college campuses over their decade

of building their organization and what they would do is they would hire the C plus B minus extroverts and they would bring them in and train the hell out of them. I want to do the exact same thing. So market by market hire the extroverts who they’re smart. They may not be actuaries.

but they are smart, they have high EQ, they can have wonderful conversations with business owners, and they have the human skills to earn the trust of Mike of Mike’s Muffler Shops and teach them the ins and outs, not to be an investment banker, but to help them get started and to be a resource and to be a phone call away. That’s what I want to build using our technology as a foundation for it all.

Anthony Codispoti (37:02)
and how do you generate revenue?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (37:05)
Well, I’m gonna start with a freemium model to get employers and private equity groups going, very basic. And then as you need more, it will be a subscription type of solution at different levels, depending on what you need. And then we might have project revenue.

Anthony Codispoti (37:22)
that the investment arm.

So it’s the investors who are paying to access the platform, both sides.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (37:27)
Most sides will.

Yeah, an employer, a small business employer won’t have to for basic stuff. But as it gets more complicated and we find out that they’re going to need the lawyers and the accountants, I will get a small introduction fee for that.

but also there will be subscription pieces that in order to build Mike of Mike’s Muffler shops up for two to three years to get him ready to sell his business, because that’s what it’s going to take. This isn’t one time we’re going to introduce you to 10 private equity groups and you’re ready to go. This will be an education platform to get Mike ready for a real event. And here’s why.

In the United States, the mics of Mike muffler shops, they the need. They don’t want to go through the whole process of selling their business. It scares them. It’s exhausting. And so many of the mics of Mike’s muffler shops instead just closed down. This is happening across the United States. It’s a big economic problem. This is true. So, ⁓

I’ll give you a further explanation in this example. Let’s pick on Mike again in my made up example, my favorite one that I share with everybody when I tell the story. Mike has owned Mike’s Muffler shops for 25 years. He has 100 employees in five locations and he’s gotten a 30 million in top line revenue. And he’s in his mid sixties. His two kids prefer to be Instagram influencers and not take over the business.

which I know it sounds nuts, but it’s kind of a true thing. They don’t want to run much muffler shops. He saved up $10 million and he rationalizes, you know, we have $10 million saved up. That’s good. And that is, that’s great. But he sold his business. He might have 50 to a hundred million. He just doesn’t know it.

And so guiding him through and having a conversation with him will create generational wealth. But instead, he rationalizes, we’re good with 10 million and we’re going to close the business down. This is real. And we’re in the middle of the silver tsunami. You and I have gray hair, but I’m not talking about our generation.

I’m talking people that are in their mid-60s and they’re about to retire and they don’t know who to pass their business to. And so many of them are shutting down. We as a country can’t afford to let that happen.

Anthony Codispoti (40:07)
Are you private equity backed?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (40:10)
No, I’m self-funding this, which my wife wants to shoot me over.

Anthony Codispoti (40:14)
I was going to say, going and hiring all of those frontline salespeople, building the tech, that’s not free.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (40:20)
I

I know. I’m gonna stair step this so she doesn’t shoot me. So, yeah, the self preservation model. I’m trying, I’m very, I’m carefully walking through my home every day right now.

Anthony Codispoti (40:26)
The self-preservation model.

When do you think it’ll launch?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (40:39)
December or January.

Anthony Codispoti (40:41)
⁓ I mean, here we are at beginning of November 2025. You’re saying in the next month or two.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (40:43)
Yes, I know. the

rest of the we’re all doing this inside of our desks. The rest of my team, if they listen to this, saying, is he crazy? So they’ll probably say February. I’m December or January. Is that not classic or what? So no, no, no, don’t be negative. That’s negative. I don’t like that.

Anthony Codispoti (40:57)
Okay. So, so March. No, not negative,

just realistic. I’ve been through this before I’ve developed tech and I get those timelines. Everything takes a little bit longer. But yeah, yeah, you want to you want to drive the team.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (41:10)
It might, it might. So we’re going to have an MVP

ready in December or January. I know that. We will have a more robust solution, a V1 in probably March-ish.

Anthony Codispoti (41:24)
Okay, well, that’s exciting stuff.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (41:28)
That’s reality.

Anthony Codispoti (41:30)
Yeah. Boy Scouts of America, you were an Eagle Scout. Nothing to sneeze at.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (41:37)
No, but also

not something that I would have normally bragged about, but I guess I did put it on LinkedIn and you found it.

Anthony Codispoti (41:43)
I mean, you know, a lot of people I’ve talked to who have achieved that award say, you know, that really built a foundation for me, agree or disagree for you.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (41:51)
Absolutely. And I would have quit that 15 times if it weren’t for my dad.

who was heavily involved the whole way through. In fact, he probably deserved, if he were still alive, the Eagle Scout. Probably not me. But he drugged me through, meaning you’re gonna get this done. And it changed me because it taught me how to go after a goal. Much like sports does, or anything else, at that formative age or teenager, you don’t wanna stay in Boy Scout.

And I had a similar thing with my son who actually he’s an Eagle Scout and now he’s at Auburn and he’s in a fraternity and he’s a super kid and he will tell you he loved it. Now I had to drag him to finish his Eagle Scout project but short of that he was just in love with it the whole way through. I do believe in the Boy Scouts which is now boys and girls they have different troops but and I think that’s great. It is scouting of America is how I view it.

And there’s something about getting outside and not having your cell phone. I didn’t have to worry about that problem when I was a kid, there were no cell phones. But to get 100 kids out.

and they’re not allowed to take their cell phones and they’re in the woods all weekend and they’re camping and they’re building things and they’re learning how to take care of themselves. My gosh, that should be universal. Moreover, it was the first time that I learned real leadership because you have to teach others as you age through scouting and you lead a team.

Well, you can’t force a team to get something done. How are you going to compel them to do it? How are you going to compel an 11-year-old when you’re a 13-year-old to listen to you? How do you do that if you’re a patrol leader or whatever it is? Scouting taught me a lot.

Anthony Codispoti (43:53)
I can tell you how my 11 year old does it with the nine year old and it is just brute physical force, but that’s probably not what you were talking about.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (43:58)
Yes, it is a way.

I’ve witnessed that in my own house. Now that they’re older, they’re not doing that. Yes, I know what you mean.

Anthony Codispoti (44:07)
So let’s shift gears now, Mike. I’d be curious to hear about a big challenge that you’ve overcome in your life, personal, professional, how you got through that and what you learned.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (44:18)
⁓ I’m split on that. That’s a big heavy question. I have a professional one and a personal one. So, okay. On the professional level, I mentioned click boarding earlier. We had this in our conversation. Then I was fired. I’d never been fired before. I was fired from click boarding. I shared this on another podcast actually, now that I think about it. And ⁓ boy, you know what? I get fired. That sucked.

Anthony Codispoti (44:24)
Let’s do both.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (44:45)
and that we had a lot of growth in our first year or two and then it just flatlined and for a while I was Mr. Blame. Blame everybody else. Bad board, bad people, nah. I own it. So I now reflect on what I would have done differently and it goes back to go to market because Clickboarding is a great company.

And now I’m speaking terms again with the founder who’s the chairman of the board and he and I get along great. I think he’s a great person. They have great people there and a great solution. A lot of greats. I’m using the word great a lot. I’ll say superb. But that hurt. And it also allowed me having never been fired before and never having really a failure behind my name before. Oh, did I learn a lot?

That first three, four months though, I was in a dark place reeling from, my God, how did I fail at that? And ⁓ more of it was letting the team at click boarding down. Very humbling for me. But I learned so many things from that. And I’ve had to bounce back from it.

Anthony Codispoti (45:54)
What was your biggest takeaway? If you look back, big thing you would have done differently.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (45:59)
I would have redesigned GoToMarket in a totally different way. We were not aggressive enough. I didn’t push us enough on the GoToMarket front in what we could have done.

We were doing a lot on the product side. I would have done the go-to-market strategy differently. And I would have reached out in different ways to the marketplace. Now, I mean, there was some softening in the market. That is in the talent space of HR tech. There was some softening in the market. I could come up with a million excuses. I would have also partnered and private labeled our technology faster. I would have done some things differently.

Anthony Codispoti (46:36)
And

were those.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (46:37)
I would have brought

in some different talent. I loved our second CRO was Dynamite. I wish he and I did things a little differently. ⁓ And I work with him in one of my other businesses now. I love the guy. So I know he and I would have done some things differently.

Anthony Codispoti (46:51)
So as you think back to some of those lessons that you learned, is there one specific one, just to use an example, that in one of your future endeavors, you were able to think back to and like, ⁓ I remember at click boarding, I should have done it this way, and I’m gonna make sure that I do it that way now.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (47:11)
Yes, back to grit. I would absolutely make face-to-face relationships the priority. All the systems that you can build…

for sales generation, for lead generation and all of these fancy tools are needed. I admit that. Zoom info, you need Salesforce or whatever your CRM is. You need these things that are reaching out, but everybody else is doing that too. I would absolutely build a badass team that knows how to build relationships face to face.

by city and it’s expensive and it has cost a lot of companies because three years ago every tech company out there was trying to do this and taking a bunch of money from private equity and building these huge sales forces and the market didn’t respond kindly to it then. So they’ve moved away from that and now we’re depending on all these technologies reaching out in AI via LinkedIn and email and cell phone calls. I get a hundred

today. I’m paralyzed by it now. I want somebody to call me and what you know at my door or mail or something else for a face-to-face meeting. That’s not happening and we will be getting back to that. I would have pushed us to get back to that sooner and I’m sure there’s some people if they listen to this they’ll say god come on ⁓ that’s old school I know but

It’s needed and ⁓ I would have focused more on people that had deep relationships, higher quality sales talent too. I’m not blaming the sales team we had, they’re good people, but they were earlier in their careers. I would hire maestros.

Anthony Codispoti (49:08)
So when you were going through that dark place in those first few months, how did you cope? How did you get through it? Who or what did you lean on?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (49:16)
size prayer not to get religious out here. Probably the number one thing was my wife saying get it together kicking me in the butt. My friend network finding out that I wasn’t alone. I thought my God no one’s gone through this before. No apparently a lot of people have. One of my mentors he sent me a note in LinkedIn. He’s the CEO of a very very large well-known company and he sent me the nicest note in LinkedIn. He first thought I left on my own accord.

And I had to confess to him now, his name’s David. Said, no David, I was fired. He said, well, welcome to the club. And I said, what do mean by that? And he said, well, pretty much every CEO is there to ultimately be fired. That’s a terrible way to look at it. But it allowed me to look at this differently. No matter what you’re running, at some point it’s gonna end.

and it’s going to end whether you’re fired and pushed out by the board, who knows the reasons, or you were successful and they no longer need you and they go through an event and somebody else takes over. So I’ve also learned you’re running a company and I guess this applies to any role, but most certainly for the leader of that company. They’re either going to be fired or they’re going to be asked to move on to the next thing. It’s just going to happen.

And then had somebody else say to me, three years is almost the average for a CEO, which is exactly where I came in and out. So I got through it by realizing I wasn’t alone. I need to learn from my mistakes. It was probably good for my ego to get fired. I’m sure some people are nodding if they know me. I’ve had a little chip on my shoulder at times. And, ⁓

Anthony Codispoti (50:42)
Is that right?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (51:02)
Having my family and friends to say, you’re going to be fine was really important to me.

Anthony Codispoti (51:08)
That’s great advice for anybody listening that is going through or might soon go through something like that. So thanks for sharing that, Mike. How about on the personal side?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (51:19)
Oh, I lost my brother to a drug addiction. And so he was, he had a drug thing earlier in life. Probably, I know my mother will never listen to a podcast, so I’m gonna get away with this. My mother were to hear me say this on a podcast, she would probably be furious. She’s 89 and smart as a whip. But we talk about it as a family now. And now I feel that it’s important to talk about it as a family.

Because the more people I’ve talked to now about this, I can’t believe how many families have someone in their family that might be on drugs. I can’t believe how many there are. I bet I’ve had this conversation with 500 people and I bet 300 have said to me, this happened to my family, to brother, cousin, friend, I don’t know. So anyways, we lost my brother Todd to a mix of heroin and cocaine.

And that was several years ago. And not soon after, unfortunately, my brother-in-law died at Parkinson’s. And just the combination was a lot for our family. was a lot. ⁓ watching your parents suffer from losing a child, no parent should go through that. So it was tough on us as a family. ⁓ And he had challenges in life anyway. But that was hard. And we didn’t know.

We knew he had drug issues earlier in life, but he gave it up and he was in a good spot relatively. But he was also a great human being and it’s hard not having him now.

Anthony Codispoti (52:49)
How long ago did that happen?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (52:51)
I think that was nine years ago. I’m forgetting the year.

Anthony Codispoti (52:56)
What’s his name?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (52:58)
He went by Ronald Ronald taught early.

Anthony Codispoti (53:01)
Okay. How did you, how did your parents get through that time?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (53:07)
I brutal. I don’t think my mother fully is. I don’t think you ever cope. I don’t think you fully ever get over losing. I can’t even imagine. I pray every day I know losing a child. So the empathy I have for my mother and my father when he was alive was just enormous. ⁓ My brother also had bouts of manic depression throughout life. So some of this shouldn’t have been so surprising that eventually he turned to drugs.

So it’s a shame on me and some of our family that we didn’t do more earlier. But I was also in an era where you didn’t do as much about that. The country has changed on our attitudes on this. Things like EAP and going to seek help or help, that didn’t exist. He would be, he was 11 years older than me. He would be, I’m 48, he would be 59.

So you just didn’t do that for somebody in those times. I don’t know if I’m answering your question directly.

Anthony Codispoti (54:11)
Yeah, you know, I noticed a big shift in how our society viewed mental health coming out of COVID. I don’t know if you would agree with that.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (54:23)
see it right now. I was at the gym. This is gonna sound weird. It’s good for a podcast. It’s kind of funny. I like to work out and if I can if I have the time to do it go to the sauna and when I’m in the sauna I never talk to a soul. I’m just in my own little world.

I don’t bring my phone in normally because it’s not good for electronics. 170 degrees burns out electronics. And I forgot this last weekend and I brought my cell phone in. I look over and this guy is on his cell phone too. And so for once, I actually talked to the person next to me. There was somebody else in there. I said, is this bad for your cell phone too? Something like that. He said, I know, I shouldn’t have brought it in. And it opened up a conversation. The third guy got in with.

We were in there for 15 more minutes talking. know, both these guys in the side of said to me that they said, thank you for talking. I could not believe this. So what do mean?

Anthony Codispoti (55:18)
Wow.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (55:20)
Both of them admitted in the sauna that they work in their homes and I work in my home. I travel a lot, that’s my mental health. They work in their homes and they don’t get enough outside time. But one guy said, I don’t talk to anybody ever. To have a conversation right now is really nice. I was thinking, oh, this is weird. Meaning our society has gotten to this spot. Yeah, you bet mental health is gonna be a problem. We need to get these offices opened up as a country as soon as possible and get people

out of their houses. This isn’t good. It’s still here.

Anthony Codispoti (55:57)
What recommendations do you have for somebody that’s in that kind of position like you are, like those folks in the sauna where, you know, they have the ability to work remotely and they do, and there’s some advantages to that, but the disadvantage of, yeah, you don’t get that human interaction. Like, how do you, how do you fulfill that bucket?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (56:16)
Even if you’re an introvert, you find a way to build a network and it might be your least comfortable thing to do. And you tell yourself, I’m going to get out of my house once a day and meet someone for a coffee, a breakfast, a lunch, a cocktail. You don’t drink dinner, whatever. Alcohol is not the point of it. It’s you’re getting out and you’re going to meet someone. You make a point to do it once a day.

Every day I’m going to meet one person. How am I going to do it? And that should be your challenge. And it will help your business no matter what business you’re in. And in the event that you too are fired or you’re let go and one of these things, now you have a network for it. And it doesn’t matter if you’re an introvert or an extrovert, you need a network. So you force yourself to build it. That would be my advice.

Anthony Codispoti (57:07)
Well, I love that because it’s sort of two birds one stone, right? It’s kind of filling that bucket of that human social interaction that we all crave and need. And at the same time, building that network, you know, and the way that you framed it is you never know when you’re going to need that. And the flip side of that is also you never know when they’re going to need you. Right. And that’s sort of the the beauty of being a human being. You know, those relationships are two way street.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (57:36)
so well said. You want to make a best friend? Help somebody find a job. That person will never forget it. It is a two-way street.

Anthony Codispoti (57:47)
How about some daily habits that you have, Mike, whether it’s to help get your day started or maybe to keep you on track?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (57:56)
I’m evaluating that in myself right now. I work out pretty much every day. Let’s go to the gym or walk every day. I need to do something. I take one day off a week. Normally it’s not always the same thing, but that is a daily habit that I do. Unfortunately, it’s not always at the same time. So that’s where I’m evaluating. Uh, my neighbor, a good friend of mine, he and I are in the same church group too. He gets up at four every morning and he has his own.

spiritual time and he works out and he goes to the office. Which I admire and I think that’s a good formula. I don’t get up at four and do that every day and I say to myself, maybe I should. Maybe that needs to be the routine. But my current norm is work out every single day and make my list of things that I need to do.

and then I try to follow but I’m really bad at it and I’m trying to get better at it. Signals versus noise. Have you heard this before? Signals versus noise.

Anthony Codispoti (58:57)
Please explain.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (58:59)
I love this and I think I first thought it came from Steve Jobs. don’t think it did. I think it was the Navy that came up with this signals versus noises. The following you have noise all day long emails, texts, phone calls, conference calls, all this stuff. 90 % of it’s BS.

And the signals are the critical couple of things that if you don’t get them done that day, your day is a failure. And the Navy came up with that because you have a radar in front of you and beep, there’s a signal, beep, you might want to pay attention to what that beep is. So they developed this entire habit of the signals in life or everything. The noise, cut it.

And if you study some of the biggest performers in our lifetimes, you can love them or hate them. The Jeff Bezos, the Elon Musk’s, they happen to have the same habit. And universally, they talk about signals versus noise. And they have gotten it to where signals are 80 % of their day.

So if you want to succeed, again, I’m a hypocrite here, I’m trying to get better at this. I try to isolate the three, four, or five things that I have to do to win. Unfortunately, I have too much noise. ⁓ I’ve encouraged others I’ve worked with to close email. Don’t respond to your emails in six, 12 hours. Now to some people, that’s like a sin.

I know people that they can’t go to bed at night until every email is literally their outlook account is zero. I do not subscribe to that. I think that is exceedingly ineffective. I do believe it’s different if you’re in a sales role. Sometimes you can’t do that, but you’re leading something. What are the two, three, four, five things you have to do? Those are the signals and you don’t go to bed until those signals are done.

Anthony Codispoti (1:01:13)
Mike, I’ve just got one more question for you today, but before I ask it, I want to do three things. First, anyone who wants to get in touch with Mike directly, you can find him on LinkedIn. His last name is spelled E-H-R-L-E, Mike Early, E-H-R-L-E. And you can find the companies that he’s building and helping to grow, Lumity.com and FinnParency.com. And we’ll have links to all that in the show notes. Also as a reminder,

If you want to get more employees access to benefits that won’t hurt them financially and carries a financial upside for the company, reach out to us at addbackbenefits.com. Finally, if you take just a moment to leave us a comment or review on your favorite podcast app, you’ll hold a special place in my heart forever. Thank you. So last question, Mike, you and I reconnect one year from today and you are so excited. You are celebrating something big. What’s that big thing you hope to be celebrating one year from today?

Mike Ehrle (Early) (1:02:12)
a monetization level where we’re at breakeven. I can manage where we will be breakeven in one year. How about that? I’m going to write that down.

Anthony Codispoti (1:02:16)
Wow.

That’s

aggressive. love it. We’re going to check back in with you to see how that’s coming along.

Mike Ehrle (Early) (1:02:24)
to.

Anthony Codispoti (1:02:26)
Mike Early from Lumity and Finn Parency, I want to be the first to thank you for sharing both your time and your story with us today. I really appreciate it.

Folks, that’s a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories podcast. Thanks for learning with us today.