Dr. Sandra Lee on Being Downsized, Networking Like Crazy, and “Be Brilliant Be Brief” Lesson

Anthony Codispoti (00:00)
Welcome to another edition of the inspired stories podcast where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired by how they’ve overcome adversity. My name is Anthony Cotaspodi and today’s guest is Dr. Sandra Lee, chief executive officer of creative dining services. They are a hospitality management company that creates custom dining programs for colleges, businesses, senior living communities, and more.

help organizations build a sense of community through fresh personalized meals and transparent partnerships. Dr. Lee brings a wealth of experience, having served as division president at Chartwell’s Higher Education and holding executive positions at Albempan, Ruby Tuesday, and Olive Garden. She has earned several honors, including the Olive Garden Michelangelo Award and recognition as one of the top 50 women leaders

in Illinois in 2022. And she is a proud US Army veteran. Now before we get into all that good stuff, today’s episode is brought to you by my company, Ad Back Benefits Agency. Listen, if you run a business, you are likely stuck in the cycle of rising insurance premiums. You’re paying more, but your team is getting less. And many people can’t afford coverage at all. We do things differently. We offer a solution that provides your hospitality employees

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See if you qualify today at addbackbenefits.com. All right, back to our guest today, the CEO of Creative Dining Services, Dr. Sandra Lee. Thanks for making the time to share your story today.

Sandra Lee (02:04)
Thanks

Thank you so much for inviting me, Anthony.

Anthony Codispoti (02:12)
So Sandra, you are a US Army veteran. Was there a specific experience when you were enlisted that continues to influence how you lead today?

Sandra Lee (02:25)
Definitely, I would say basic training because you’re just not quite ready for basic training. And when you get in there, all of a sudden you’re running three miles every morning before breakfast and you have to, you just have to persevere. Otherwise you’re going to be sent home and you’re not going to complete your training. So I would say learning to persevere when I was in the military and then watching how the drill sergeants really leaned into leadership by encouraging.

and making sure that we understood how to accomplish the mission. I mean, I know there are several people that just don’t go out and run every day and I wasn’t one of those. So it was something that taught me how to persevere.

Anthony Codispoti (03:06)
So the picture that I have in my head from movies of drill sergeants is not what I would call encouraging. It’s very aggressive. Was that your experience as well?

Sandra Lee (03:19)
There is a little of that, but beneath that is a tenderness and a heart because they want you to succeed and they know that potentially it’s going to be life and death. You may be sent somewhere where you have to survive. So there has to be a little bit of toughness, but more than anything, there’s a lot of underlying caring for the individual.

Anthony Codispoti (03:41)
⁓ And how long were you in the army?

Sandra Lee (03:44)
Five years active duty all over the world, mostly in Germany.

Anthony Codispoti (03:46)
Okay. ⁓

Okay. Did you ever see a war zone?

Sandra Lee (03:54)
I can tell you I did see some enemy fire, but not much of a war zone.

Anthony Codispoti (03:58)
Okay.

Okay. All right. So in the armor for five years, and then is that shortly after, is that how you found your way into the restaurant and dining and hospitality space?

Sandra Lee (04:11)
Absolutely. So when I left the military, I left during the time of a recession. So imagine trying to get a job and being overqualified because, you know, I’d been in leadership training. I was a leadership instructor. I was also in the precursor of HR. So the only real job I could find was delivering pizzas. And I became a pizza delivery person because, you know, quite frankly,

You have to put food on the table and you have to survive. And I may have joined the food services industry because at the time there wasn’t anything in my field, but I can tell you I stayed in it because of the love for the business and the people.

Anthony Codispoti (04:57)
What sparks that love? What is it that you feel so drawn to?

Sandra Lee (05:03)
I believe that as humans, we tend to gather around food, family, friends, faith, and fire. I mean, when we think about how villages first formed, and my goodness, in the food service industry, those are all present. Those elements are all present in some way, shape, form.

Anthony Codispoti (05:25)
Now, you said that in the Army you were involved in sort of the precursor to HR. Did it just have a different name back then?

Sandra Lee (05:33)
It was called Personnel Management Specialist.

Anthony Codispoti (05:35)
Okay.

And as you were coming out of the army into civilian life, this just wasn’t as much of a thing.

Sandra Lee (05:44)
It wasn’t, it wasn’t, was, know, during the time of a big recession when jobs were very competitive, very difficult to come by. At the time, I did not have a complete degree. I had started in the military and I had my GI Bill. So that’s why I ended up in the food service business, in the food service business, because it was flexible enough for me to go back to school.

Anthony Codispoti (06:09)
And not only did you go back to school, but you know, we heard in the intro, I introduced you as Dr. Sandra Lee. So tell us about the doctorate.

Sandra Lee (06:12)
You

The doctorate came in 2022, not so long ago. And in fact, Anthony, it took me years to get my bachelor, my bachelor’s degree because life just happened. Sick mother who I had to take care of for a while, sick father who I had to take care of, they both unfortunately passed away. But willingly, I stepped back from what I was doing and my goal of completing college to take care of them.

And then, you know, once I was back on my feet, I got a job waiting tables. I worked for Darden for a while and went to general manager, won the Michelangelo award, then went into executive positions. And it was during that time when I became an area director or director of operations that I decided to go back and finish my bachelor’s degree. So I was well into my thirties.

before I finished my bachelor’s degree. And then I became hungry for that MBA and immediately ⁓ went for my MBA at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville, Go Vols, had to give them a plug.

Anthony Codispoti (07:36)
Why was that bachelor’s degree so important to you? You had now you were on a career path. Why divert from that?

Sandra Lee (07:45)
I’ll take it back to having wonderful parents. My father was drafted into the military before he could finish high school. And he always encouraged me to get my education. And in fact, that was one of the promises I made when he was in the hospital in his last few weeks is he said, please promise me you’ll finish your education. And I said, I would. And I just didn’t stop because

I knew he always wanted what was best for me. So it was a leap of faith. But I also have an innate curiosity. How do things work? You know, what can I find and make better? Or what do successful people do? And I just love to study and finishing my, I have a master, an MBA. I also have a master’s in education in online curriculum development.

technological implementation from Purdue. And then I went on to finish my doctorate in education leadership.

Anthony Codispoti (08:49)
What was that second master’s for? What was the purpose, the intent?

Sandra Lee (08:54)
At the time, I was working for Oban Pan and I was leading the training department and the professional development and it was right at the precursor of e-learning. It hadn’t been widely adopted and I knew that in ⁓ order for us to scale that we needed to embrace e-learning relatively quickly. So I decided to go to Purdue after doing a lot of research in some of the better programs in Purdue.

was ranked amongst the best. So I went back to learn how to do that so that we could implement e-learning.

Anthony Codispoti (09:29)
Wow. And then at some point you decide you want to continue with your education, you want to get a PhD. Was that also to fill a need and where you were in your career at that point?

Sandra Lee (09:42)
Absolutely, Anthony. I was working at Chartwell’s. I was a ⁓ senior vice president at the time. you know, presidents of universities, I was in the higher education contract dining services, and presidents of universities want to speak with like minded people. And having a doctor in front of your name really opens doors. So that was one of the reasons.

But the second reason was to truly understand the inner workings of higher education. So I have a doctorate in education, higher education leadership, so that I could understand as a partner to university presidents and to auxiliary services and financial services and academic services, what their unique challenges were and how they worked as an institution.

so that I could fold our organization as a true value proposition. So that’s one of the reasons.

Anthony Codispoti (10:45)
And as you were getting each of these degrees, the two masters, the bachelor’s, the doctorate, were you also working at the same time through all of these?

Sandra Lee (10:54)
I was full-time, very much so. In fact, my bachelor’s degree, was a director of operations for the Olive Garden. And of course, directors of operations are on call 24-7. But you make it work. mean, one of the things that I recommend to anyone is really learn to manage your time, but write your goals down so that you never lose sight of your goals and you know how to invest your time best.

Anthony Codispoti (11:24)
Well, I want to go back a little bit. We’ve kind of gone through a little bit of a chronology here, but I want to talk more about the time that you took off to take care of each of your sick parents. Excuse me, sick parents. I mean, it’s amazing that you had that in your heart to do that. But at a time when you’re young and you’re just starting your career, what was that like for you?

Sandra Lee (11:53)
In hindsight, it’s the best thing I could do. When my mother became ill, I was a general manager with the Olive Garden. So I stepped down. I became a server. Imagine, you know, I’m used to running a restaurant and then I am serving tables or hostessing or cashiering or cooking. And the same with my father. You know, I was in a higher role.

Anthony Codispoti (11:55)
Yeah.

Sandra Lee (12:18)
at the time, but also I just stepped down ⁓ and waited tables so that I could dedicate the time to him. And our parents sacrificed so much for us. think about, know, I left home when I was 17 to join the army and my parents made sure that I had everything I absolutely needed. And I knew that they needed me to be there for them. And that’s why I did it.

And it didn’t hurt my career to go from general manager to server or from area director to server and cashier because life turned out the way it was supposed to be. And I do believe in a bit of karma and in the power of doing good.

Anthony Codispoti (13:04)
So when your parents, each of them had passed and you were ready to step back into a more senior corporate level role, it wasn’t difficult for you to sort of, this is the wrong phrasing, but like reclaim your turf.

Sandra Lee (13:20)
Well, I waited. father passed away. You know, after my father passed away, my husband and I moved to Cincinnati, Ohio, and we thought we were going to go to college together. And so we were hourly employees again. We were waiting tables together. And at one point I said, one of us needs to have a full-time job. We both can’t go to college at the same time. So I went into management.

⁓ and went backed up to kitchen manager to general manager. And then I was later on promoted to the area director with the Olive Garden. So I didn’t go immediately right back in. I took my time because I was really searching for what I wanted to do next. But once I entered back into management and into the executive roles, I just really realized how much I enjoyed it and missed it.

Anthony Codispoti (14:17)
You know, we referenced this briefly in the intro. You have been recognized with some different awards. ⁓ Olive Garden, the Michelangelo Award, the Joe R. Lee Diamond Club Award. What do you think the qualities you possess are that led to these awards and your rising through the ranks in these different corporate roles?

Sandra Lee (14:29)
Mm-hmm.

I believe as leaders we don’t win awards on our own. It’s because of the team that we put together and the team that chooses to work with us. Because everyone has a choice. And you know, I like to say that one of my superpowers is building a winning team. I’m a big sports fan. You’ll hear all about that. But ⁓ I do believe that you have to put a winning team together.

And instead of focusing on opportunities and what some people call weaknesses, I try to focus on leaning into their strengths and making sure that each team member’s strengths complements the mission of the team, that we know where we want to go and what players we need on that team to get there.

Anthony Codispoti (15:29)
So let’s talk more about that superpower, being able to build a winning team. How do you evaluate talent? Do you have some magic questions or processes that you’ve learned, sort of tricks of the trade that you can share with folks?

Sandra Lee (15:46)
When I was in the military, Anthony, I remember a drill sergeant saying to me, you always want to be the one that pluses up any organization you join. So I look for that team member. I’m a big fan of Patrick Lencioni and our organization, Creative Dining Services uses the book, The Ideal Team Player, Hungry, Humble and Smart.

as our guide to hiring everyone from our dishwasher to our senior vice presidents and our C-level executives. So I would say that, ⁓ you know, just embracing materials that are out there, but truly believing in them and living in them and having a plan with the team so that they support it is what makes our team function so well.

Anthony Codispoti (16:41)
How do you evaluate that talent or how do you spot it? you’re probably a bit removed from a lot of the hiring rules now, but I’ve interviewed lots of people. Some folks interview really well and don’t work out. Some people don’t interview that great and end up being star team players. Curious to hear what your experience has been like there.

Sandra Lee (17:04)
⁓ I’ve hired so many people in my career and I continue to hire people. So what I look for are, first of all, hospitality. You can tell how someone will behave with a customer or client by how they even walk into the interview. Are they on time? Because time is our most precious commodity and asset. So wasting someone’s time is just not acceptable, right? So are they on time?

Anthony Codispoti (17:09)
Okay.

Sandra Lee (17:31)
⁓ Are they dressed as best as they can be? And that’s different from, are they dressed to the nines? Because there are people right now who just don’t have the means, but we have to look beyond that and see and really look at that individual. Are they genuine? Do they smile? When they ask a question or answer a question, are they making eye contacts? And the other thing I look for is,

preparation and curiosity. Are they curious about what we do and are they asking those questions or are the questions centered around the I, the individual? Because individuals contribute to the team and the individual needs to be successful, but it’s ultimately the team that will carry the individual at all times.

Anthony Codispoti (18:13)
you

⁓ I want to get into what you’re doing at Creative Dining Services, but first let’s ⁓ talk a little bit about the work you did at Chartwells. You joined them in 2017. Still in the food industry, but a bit different from your other stops. Can you tell us about the work that you did there?

Sandra Lee (18:42)
What a learning curve, Anthony. I had no clue about contracts, about what universities were looking for, other than the hospitality, the quality of food, the timing of the food. So I had that and I also knew how to build a team. But learning the language of higher education, learning how to write really good contracts that are two-sided, that benefit

both parties and not just ⁓ our organization. So that was a very interesting time for me. But I can tell you, I had mentors, people who cared. Again, you know, the drill sergeant, there’s always someone, if you look close enough, who is raising their hand, waiting for you to ask them to help you. So I don’t shy away from asking for help.

Anthony Codispoti (19:33)
Hmm.

Sandra Lee (19:37)
And in fact, my first account pursuit was a very large organization and I felt I was way in over my head. And I called the CEO at the time, it was a woman by the name of Lisa McEwen. And I said, I have no clue how to do this. I’m going to need help. And I promise you, I will be a great student.

And she assigned a mentor to me, another regional vice president, but she was waiting for me to raise my hand. And, you know, then he continued to mentor me. His name was Nadim Safar. In fact, he’s one of the COOs now at Chartwells. And he taught me a lot about contracts. And there was just so much patience around me where people were willing to take the time and explain contract food services because I understood.

food services. So yes, it was quite different, but quite rewarding.

Anthony Codispoti (20:38)
I like this story because I think it’s really hard for most people to ask for help. And I think there’s a couple of components there. One, it’s hard just to admit to yourself, let alone to anyone else that you need help, that you’re behind the curve, that you are not where you are supposed to be or want to be. And then I think the other component for a lot of folks is I’m going to be bothering them. Like they’re busy. Like what would you say to those things?

Sandra Lee (21:08)
I say we have to get over that fear. We have to allow ourselves to be vulnerable and we’re only human. We do not possess the knowledge of the entire universe individually, but collectively we do. And that’s when we have to raise our hand. It is not a sign of weakness when we raise our hand and say, I need help. In fact, I always view that as a sign of strength.

the willingness to admit what we don’t know so that you don’t potentially make an even larger mistake. So I’d say get over the fear of you’re interrupting them, you’re bothering them. If I want to reach out to someone, I usually text them and say, do you have a moment? I’d like to discuss approach. And I always let them know what I’d like to talk about so that they can prioritize their time instead of saying, could you call me?

that gives them no context. If they’re in a meeting, is it an emergency or can we make a time later today?

Anthony Codispoti (22:12)
I like that. you’re texting them which is a tiny interruption but you know it’s an asynchronous form of communication so they can get back to you when it’s good for them. You’re asking for the help and you’re giving context for what it is that you want to talk about. So they know they have some sense of is this a three minute conversation or is this you know something it’s going to take quite a bit.

Sandra Lee (22:22)
Yes.

right.

Anthony Codispoti (22:36)
Any other tactics around that? Because I really like that. people are listening and they’re, OK, I need to ask for help. How do I do it? And that’s brilliant. Anything else to share?

Sandra Lee (22:45)
I would say, you I keep notes. Sometimes it’s index cards. A lot of times it’s the notepad on my iPhone. But I know exactly what I want to talk about. And I also know when I don’t know what I don’t know. And I will approach the conversation with, here’s what I’m thinking. However, here’s where I’m gapping. Can you help me fill in the blanks so that I’m not just rambling or they’re not trying to figure out where I need the help.

So be prepared. mean, preparation is just one of those, it’s a talent. Just be prepared when you come to a conversation.

Anthony Codispoti (23:23)
I love that because you want to be respectful of their time, right? Because the next time that you need assistance, if you need to go to that same person, you want them to have a memory of you being prepared and efficient and ready to go. So kind of have a script or an outline ready before you reach out and ask for that.

Sandra Lee (23:42)
And that’s so true, Anthony. In fact, I give all sorts of credit to Lisa because the first time I asked her for help, I wasn’t quite so succinct or concise. And Lisa was like, she just said, be brilliant, be brief. And I remember that in all of my interactions. I try to just be brilliant, be brief and be very respectful of that time. And it is a skill that I didn’t possess. I wasn’t born with it.

And it was one, obviously, later, after 2017, that I actually started working on it. So another bit of advice I would give anybody is it’s never too late to learn a new skill or to even do something better that you might have been struggling with.

Anthony Codispoti (24:29)
Love that, love that a lot. Okay, so how did the opportunity to join Creative Dining Services come about?

Sandra Lee (24:37)
Well, ⁓ you know, when you talk about life’s challenges, we all have those challenges. And when I was with Obong Pan, we were preparing for a sale and we brought in a new CEO and I kind of saw the handwriting on the wall. I knew, this means a reorganization. So I went through a reorganization at Obong Pan. And for anyone who has ever been RIFT,

That is very humbling. It’s one of reduction in force or let go or downsize. ⁓ There are so many words for it, but ultimately is you’re cut from the team. And your first instinct is I’m not good enough for the team. And why did the team not embrace me or why didn’t somebody fight harder for me or

Anthony Codispoti (25:11)
Refed, can you explain that?

Sandra Lee (25:38)
I’m a failure. That’s our first instinct is to lean into becoming the sole guest at our self-induced pity party. And we have to get over that. Because what I realized during that time of being cut from a team, and it was the first time, ⁓ was that it wasn’t about me necessarily. It was about

them needing different skill sets for a mergers and acquisitions. And at the time I was in training and leadership development and we already had established that foundation. So for anybody who is listening, being let go isn’t necessarily about you. It’s about what the organization needs at the time and understand that every

every one of those incidents in your life opens another door. My husband has a wicked sense of humor and he says, if a door closes, find another door to open. It’s a door, you walk through it. And I believe that, know, somebody say, well, the window opens and opportunity will open up. And that’s what happened with me with Obamcan. ⁓

I was downsized, I was given the opportunity to work with an agency to write resumes and all of that. But I didn’t get my job doing that. What I did is I was networking. I took the time after two weeks of feeling sorry for myself and binge watching some of my favorite shows to make my full-time job, getting a full-time job. And I networked like crazy. I went and talked to people that I’d worked with.

I got very active on LinkedIn. I went to different meetings and I volunteered to help people. And it was through that networking that I was introduced to somebody at Delta Airlines who asked me to help them source great team players for a newly established airline catering at Boston Logan Airport.

So it was very circuitous. But the one thing I learned that I recommend to anyone is network and look at every interaction that you may have, whether it’s in a grocery store, library, as something that will potentially help you or the other person, because there are other people out there doing the same.

Anthony Codispoti (28:19)
Sandra, can you say more about your approach to networking? Because for some people that word kind of takes on a little bit of a scuzzy feeling. How do you approach it?

Sandra Lee (28:27)
Well, you would not know it now, but I’m a little bit shy by nature. And it really took me finding somebody else who was in the same position and said, let’s go to this meeting and first listen to what people say. Of course, I took my stack of business cards and my contact information. But usually at the first meeting, I was evaluating what others were doing. And then, you know,

trying to get more comfortable with the different people in the room. And then maybe by the second or third meeting, I became more outgoing, more introducing myself. And then realizing networking is not, it’s not that scuzzy thing. It truly is how businesses and relationships work. You just never know who is going to reach out to ask you to join them or

to have, you you may want to have them join you, but it’s nothing to be afraid of, just be yourself.

Anthony Codispoti (29:29)
I like that. Be yourself. And, you know, one of the things that I think has helped me over the years, and some of my guests have helped me put words around this, is rather than approach networking as a what can I gain from this person? What can I take? It’s where is my opportunity to give? Let me listen. Let me learn what it is that they do. Do I know somebody that might be helpful to them?

Sandra Lee (29:54)
That’s exactly right. It in fact, you know, one of the meetings I attended later on when I landed a new position, I hired them. So it worked for several of us. And like I said, don’t be afraid to ask. Don’t be afraid to tell people, look, you know, I’m in between roles. I’m waiting for my next great role. If you hear of anything, would you mind letting me know? And I will do the same for you.

and then do it.

Anthony Codispoti (30:26)
like that. So tell us Sandra about the work that you’re doing at Creative Dining Services. What is this company?

Sandra Lee (30:35)
This is a mighty little company. And in fact, you when I think about where I worked at Chartwells and how much managed revenue I had, I mean, was, was Pemeth and Creative Dining Services is much smaller, but we’re a contract food services company that isn’t a vendor. We’re a true partner. And we were founded by two Christian based universities that were unable to find

dining partners to take care of their students. So they decided to form their own company. And that’s the genesis of our organization, two faith-based colleges understanding the needs of the students and food services, and then saying, we can do this better. And we’ve grown to more than 70 locations in 16 states from those two universities.

And a lot of that growth has been organic through referrals, through networking. I mean, again, I come back to the networking, but referrals. You never know who’s listening to your story that’s inspired or who’s listening that says, I have a need that they can fill because it resonates with me. Their message resonates with me. So we do everything from independent boarding schools, K through 12.

to senior living, to corporate dining, to ⁓ higher education and camps and conferences. So we’re all over the map and we have experts in each of those fields leading those parts of the business.

Anthony Codispoti (32:15)
And so what specifically

are you doing? Let’s pick like a college or university. You are staffing and completely running the dining hall operations. Is that correct?

Sandra Lee (32:25)
Absolutely, and we’re running what they call retail locations, coffee shops. So not only do we provide the food, the beverage, of course we have quality, high quality food. We have chefs at each of our locations. So it’s not just, you know, throwing some food together. It’s really well thought out menus. ⁓ We provide food for people who have allergies, sensitivity to foods. ⁓

what I also call diet restrictions, what dietary restrictions, whether it is their choice, as in vegan, or they, ⁓ you know, have to have gluten free, we do all of that. But more than anything, we serve food with a smile, and we believe in service. We serve the communities in which we operate, whether that’s outside the four walls, or whether it’s on the campus, the corporate campus,

the camp or the university campus, we serve the people there.

Anthony Codispoti (33:28)
So Sandra, when you talk with a new prospective client, are they traditionally thinking about moving from managing it themselves to having you do it, or are they moving from another third party service to you?

Sandra Lee (33:45)
It could be either. And in fact, we know we’ve competed against other contractors and one, we do, think our people are our differentiator, our passion for doing it right the first time and that need to serve. You can always tell when somebody has that discretionary behavior, right? They smile, they’ll pick up a piece of paper off the floor. They’ll hold the door open without being asked. They say, please, they say, thank you.

It’s just who they are. And then we also ⁓ work with the self-operators because sometimes they just need to understand the purchasing of food and we have partnership, we’ve partnered with them in different ways. For example, sometimes we just go in and help them manage and other times we will take it all over and incorporate them onto our team.

Anthony Codispoti (34:38)
And why are they typically looking for your help if they’re already operating it on their own? What advantages are you guys bringing to the table?

Sandra Lee (34:47)
There’s a power of purchasing and we deal in a lot of volumes, so we tend to get some incredible prices. We also get great pricing with great product. The other thing is that knowledge, because now we increase their knowledge and they increase our knowledge. So working together is they don’t know what they don’t know. And we bring in different fields of expertise, whether it’s innovation.

whether it’s writing great menus, whether it’s catering that absolutely amazes and wows all of the donors. They may not have seen that and we can bring all that to the table and make it happen for them.

Anthony Codispoti (35:31)
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me, whether you’re talking about a college and university or corporate environment or senior living like they have to do so many different things. They are not the experts in hospitality and food service like you guys are. That is all that you do. You focus on it all the time. You’ve got these massive purchasing contracts, better pricing there. And you’ve just done this over and over again in so many different environments so that you’re pulling from a

a depth of expertise that would be unknown to them.

Sandra Lee (36:03)
That’s correct, Anthony. And we’re always curious. Our team attends conferences. They learn from others. We strive to just get better and better. And the other thing is a self-operator doesn’t have the resources we have. So let’s say all of a sudden they’re going to do a tailgate, thousand people. They may not have the means to do that. And we can bring in people from nearby, different partnerships that we have that can support them.

So now they have, they’ve just exponentially increased their ability to deliver even greater things to their constituents.

Anthony Codispoti (36:44)
I like that you guys really put a lot of focus on being able to personalize your service to what the client needs. ⁓ You use that tailgate example was a good one. Is there another one that you can share with us that kind of highlights that?

Sandra Lee (37:01)
Absolutely, donors, especially, you know, high dollar donors, universities. You know, we all know higher education right now, you know, a lot of funding has been cut off or, you know, it’s just what happens. And, you know, there are donors out there that are willing to come and, you know, fund a building or completely, you know, fund a new program. And we want to make sure

that they get that top notch experience and the president and the board of trustees always want the university to look their best. And having those high end catering meals where it’s black tie and the food is just something that hits social media and is burned into their memories for a long time really helps to get more of those donations. So

Anthony Codispoti (37:56)
Yeah.

Sandra Lee (37:57)
Yeah,

we do quite a bit of those and we personalize it to the university with the colors or, you know, with the organization that may be sponsoring it. And then we find something to personalize. You know, if there’s a special donor that they would like us to focus on, we make sure we do background on them so that we come prepared.

Anthony Codispoti (38:19)
Can you give me an example without using any names on somebody you prepped for?

Sandra Lee (38:24)
Yes, ⁓ you know, around Michigan there are lot of buildings with a lot of different names, but there are, you know, five or six very prominent ones. And we were catering a donor dinner and one of those donors was that person. And our team looked at what they’d done recently. They found out that they had ⁓ done a really nice event with Boys and Girls Clubs and we could lead into that.

because we had recently also done a charity event for a boys and girls club. And it was one of those things where there was an immediate connection. And that connection, you know, it’s a memory they’ll have from that dinner. And hopefully it inspired them to just continue giving like they’ve so generously done before.

Anthony Codispoti (39:13)
⁓ Now, Sandra, you’ve been in this role, the CEO role at Creative Dining Services for just about a year. When you first started, what was a big initiative that you undertook?

Sandra Lee (39:27)
How we hire team members. The hungry, humble, and smart, all of the executives have read the book. That was one of the first initiatives. And then another book that we were working through is Extreme Ownership ⁓ by Jaco. And I’ll remember his name a little later, but Extreme Ownership. we talk about critical thinking and empowering our team.

So that’s a little different is making sure that we give them the tools and then we empower them because we’re hiring the best. We should just get out of their way and do what they’re so great at.

Anthony Codispoti (40:04)
What are some other initiatives that are either underway or that you’ve got kind of in the top of mind that are coming?

Sandra Lee (40:13)
Well, we believe in innovation and ⁓ we’re always looking for a way to connect more with our customers and to kind of bring them something they haven’t had before. So ⁓ we’ve just recently piloted a global concept that’s very much embraced by whether it’s corporate dining and even in camps and conferences from the smaller children five years to the age of 18.

So that was one of the initiatives and that was started before my time. And then, you know, the other initiative is just making sure that everyone understands that. I mean, it’s a Pittsburgh Steelers expression for Mike Tomlin. The standard is the standard. We talk about what’s the standard and why would we deviate from the standard unless we’re actually going above and beyond that standard.

Anthony Codispoti (41:08)
Can you say more about the program that was piloted?

Sandra Lee (41:13)
yes, it was, ⁓ you know, we find that more of our students and more of our customers really have allergies to food, food sensitivities. So we piloted an international cuisine that is completely free of all of the nine allergies. So still working on that, we’re going to be introducing it into one of our universities here pretty soon. But it’s so important that

Students who have allergies don’t feel like they’re a little bit marginalized. We want them in the main dining area. We want them going to, you know, where we serve our allergy-free foods, but it also is in the main dining area because we want them to feel part of that student community and to feel like they belong.

Anthony Codispoti (42:04)
Wow. Do you see this being more of a niche kind of a thing or do you see this being popular more globally?

Sandra Lee (42:14)
I do see it being popular more globally because the food tastes so great and you wouldn’t even realize it didn’t have the nine allergies in it, the nine allergens in it because they have these great substitutions or great vegetables, etc. There are ways to make food that are free of those allergens that absolutely taste great and if you didn’t tell somebody it was free of allergens, they wouldn’t know that.

Anthony Codispoti (42:42)
They

wouldn’t know.

Sandra Lee (42:42)
because

they would gravitate to that freshness.

Anthony Codispoti (42:45)
So what are we talking about like peanuts and dairy? What’s on this list?

Sandra Lee (42:49)
fish,

soy, wheat, those types of things. Absolutely. And you know, it is as much as I’d say it, but it is, it could, it could send somebody to the hospital if they ingest something that they’re severely allergic to. So we, really make sure that we label all of our allergens in all of our dishes so they can look at, we have icons. They can look at the icon and say, that has dairy. can’t do it. Or

Anthony Codispoti (42:53)
Okay. Yeah. Interesting.

Sandra Lee (43:18)
that doesn’t have fish, I’m good.

Anthony Codispoti (43:21)
Okay. We’ve talked a little bit about sports and how important that is to you. You mentioned one of your teams, Tennessee Volunteers. ⁓ Who else is in your stable there?

Sandra Lee (43:34)
my goodness. at college and university, my husband’s a Razorback, so we’re very much the SEC, house divided. You know, we cheer for our own teams till the other one loses and then we cheer for the other person’s team. And then in terms of, ⁓ you know, other teams, you know, the like the NFL, my goodness, I’ve been a Steelers fan since forever. You know,

way back when the Bradshaw days, ⁓ Rothenberger days. And ⁓ when I lived in Boston, of course, you couldn’t help but be a Patriots fan during the Brady era. But I’m just a complete ⁓ sports fan because when I think about what they’re doing on the field, it feels a lot like they’re building a great team. Everyone knows what they need to be doing so that the team ultimately gets to the Super Bowl. And I say to our team,

Every partnership that we win and earn is our Super Bowl. So that’s kind of why I’m a sports nut. I just believe that it’s all about teamwork.

Anthony Codispoti (44:31)
Yeah.

You know, we’re recording this the day after Indiana University beat the Miami Hurricanes for the national championship. ⁓ Coach Signetti took the one of the losingest programs in all of college football history and in two years turned them into an undefeated national champion. What do you take from that storyline?

Sandra Lee (44:44)
right.

Well, first of all, my vice president of new partnership development has been a diehard fan forever. And we have all been rooting for the team. Indiana, like, you know, wearing the Indiana logo and the office, et cetera. So what I take from that is never give up. Your season is coming. He built a great team. The mission was clear. We’re going to win.

And by golly, they did. And how did they win? mean, it was just, everybody said they couldn’t do it. You know, for me, my takeaway is there are people in all of our lives who may not believe there’s something we can do. But if you believe in yourself and you believe in your team, you’re unstoppable. And that win last night was just something I was even celebrating while I was traveling. And I was like, ⁓ Jeff is going to be so excited.

and I’m sure he’s over the moon today.

Anthony Codispoti (45:59)
Yeah. You know, it’s interesting you mentioned the Steelers. I’m a Browns fan. ⁓ Condolences are appreciated. And my wife is a Steelers fan. And so we’ve had a similar kind of arrangement to the way you and your husband do with Tennessee and Arkansas. So I when our teams play each other, obviously, I’m rooting for my team for the rare win. And likewise, you know, ⁓ when we’re not playing each other, I want my wife to be happy. I’m rooting for her. So

hoping you guys find

Sandra Lee (46:28)
That keeps the house.

Anthony Codispoti (46:30)
a good coach, but ⁓ one that’s worse than ours.

Sandra Lee (46:36)
I understand, Anthony.

Anthony Codispoti (46:38)
Our time

has come. Anyways, let’s get back to Creative Dining Services. What does the future look like? Where are you guys growing? New industries, new services, talk to

Sandra Lee (46:50)
We’re definitely growing in new states. You know, our plan is to ⁓ at least add two more states over the next year and then to continue adding states and then moving ⁓ more into the senior living space. We are such a great fit for that, just given our need to serve, our desire to serve and to really bring that hospitality but understanding.

You know how our, you know, I call it ⁓ senior dining. It truly is lifestyle dining. Just because somebody may be older doesn’t mean they don’t want great food. So we’re really leaning into that now and have actually established a partnership with an organization to wrap that up much quicker.

Anthony Codispoti (47:40)
Interesting, a partnership. And so that would be somebody who’s already selling into the senior living space. Okay.

Sandra Lee (47:48)
Yes, but they’re adjacent, so they’re not in the food services aspect of it. They’re more into the supply aspect of it.

Anthony Codispoti (47:56)
Okay, fascinating. And you mentioned that moving into two new states, until you said that, it hadn’t really occurred to me that there’s probably like a logistical ⁓ issue. Like if you’re not in, I’m gonna make it up, the state of California, you haven’t gone west of the Mississippi yet, there’s some logistical challenges there with having the right team on the ground, having supply chain in place, et cetera. Am I thinking about that correctly?

Sandra Lee (48:24)
You’re absolutely thinking about that correctly. In fact, you would you like to join our team? Because really that those are the considerations and we will not we do not want to commit to going out where we do not have someone close by that can support them or that we don’t have the supply chain. So our ⁓ primary partner in our supply chain is really has really grown with us and they’ve done a lot.

to help us move into other states. So we work very closely with them and appreciate their willingness to help us scale up as they scale up.

Anthony Codispoti (49:02)
Mm, and there’s a true partnership there. What role is AI playing in creative dining services today?

Sandra Lee (49:11)
My goodness, we are just at the tip of that. And I believe that, you know, our entire country is at the tip of that. But we are looking at AI just in terms of food waste, because we do not want to throw food out that somebody could have eaten or over-prepare food. So AI is very helpful in terms of helping us with our production planning and our ordering so that our product doesn’t expire or we don’t overproduce.

And there are some great organizations out there that are piloting that. And we’re working with them to see if they can back into each of our different sectors, because we have such a different business model from from K through 12 or corporate dining or even going into senior living in camps and conferences. But I do believe that AI is something that can serve us well if we use it judiciously and smartly.

Anthony Codispoti (50:11)
And so the examples that you just gave there, it sounds like you’re working with third party vendors who are custom creating these tools rather than sort of developing them in house.

Sandra Lee (50:22)
That’s correct, I go to the experts. We’re experts in great food, great service, engagement and connection, but we’re not the experts in AI. So definitely I believe in using their expertise to help our team.

Anthony Codispoti (50:38)
And in terms of growth for you guys, you’ve mentioned a lot comes from referrals, talking about ⁓ different partnerships that are really valuable. What other growth levers do you have?

Sandra Lee (50:47)
We have a sales team. fact, we’re adding to our sales team, we’re adding a few more because we want to establish a relationships before a request for proposal comes out. Because when the request for proposal comes out, you’re usually behind and you’re just one of many that they’ve sent it to. So then you have to work harder to get your story to them and really to connect with them. So really increasing that sales team.

being led by a very happy Indiana fan, which is a gentleman by the name of Jeff.

Anthony Codispoti (51:22)
Okay. And so what does that relationship building look like in advance? You know, he’s going and knocking on doors at places that may or may not ever put out an RFP.

Sandra Lee (51:34)
That’s true. ⁓ We do a lot of studying, that curiosity. We do our homework, we’re prepared. And what we do is we try to find what I call intersectionality. What have they done that we might have done or what do they need that we can provide? And we go into, you know, cold calling with satisfying a need. We don’t just go in and say, hey, we’re one of many. We come in and say, our understanding is that

this is an area of concern for you. And I’d love to spend some time talking with you about how we can partner and alleviate some of that pain for you.

Anthony Codispoti (52:12)
And that’s generally well received, that approach.

Sandra Lee (52:14)
It is, it is.

And we attend a lot of conferences where we make new friends. Our partners, our friends, their family. One of our core values is family and they truly become part of the Creative Dining Services family. And we become part of their family, whether it’s a corporation or university.

Anthony Codispoti (52:34)
Sandra, I know that you’re a big fan of helping to inspire others not to give up when they hit hardship. When we’ve talked about some of the challenges that you’ve been through in your life, I wonder if there’s another one that you would care to highlight to help give people another inspirational story to show that when you hit the hard thing in life, you don’t throw in the towel.

Sandra Lee (52:57)
my goodness. Yes. ⁓ There was a time where my husband and I were a bit overextended. We were just overextended. And unfortunately, these things happen because you’re paying for college, you’re paying for so many different things. And, you know, we had to say, we’re going to give up everything. We’re going to move to a smaller place. We are going to start over. We’re going to tighten our belt. And we talked about

All of those things that we thought we needed, that we didn’t, the need, it was a want, not a need. So we clawed it all back to just what we needed, and that’s what we did. And it wasn’t easy. It wasn’t always fun. You know, there people going out to dinner all the time, or going to movies all the time, and we were going over to friends’ house to watch, you know, cable because we cut off cable. So ⁓ these things happen, but it’s okay.

It’s okay to, as some people may call it a fail, it’s okay to fail because you’re going to come out of it stronger if you don’t give up. And if you use critical thinking and all of your resources and your inner determination to get past it, you will get past it.

Anthony Codispoti (54:14)
You know, I’m glad that you shared that specifically and it sounds rather innocuous, the giving up the cable. You know, I think in, you know, our society, there are some things that people just feel like are a given, a must, like you can’t go without them. And if they are in a similar situation where they really need to tighten their belts, they might not be thinking about things like that, which, you know, can save over a thousand dollars a year.

you know, which for you know, somebody that’s looking to write the ship that significant money. What else if you as you think back to that time, what were some other ⁓ belt tightening tactics that you used?

Sandra Lee (54:53)
I think many can relate with this. It was that special coffee that you get on your way to work. You know, that’s special drink. And, know, those are five, six, seven dollars. Imagine doing that every day. That had to go. That was one of the first things that that went. And of course, eating at, you know, going out to dinner or breakfast or anything. It was it was a bowl of cereal and milk. And it became fuel. We started looking at.

our food as the fuel we needed. And then of course, back then we were clipping coupons when you click coupons. So all of those things and they add it up and then we would start putting that money aside and then paying down things. So there’s a will, there’s a way. Just have to think your way through it and be willing to give up some things.

Anthony Codispoti (55:40)
Yeah, short term pain for the long term gain, right? How long was it between when you made the decision that you were going to make these difficult cutbacks to when you had kind of right sized everything?

Sandra Lee (55:43)
That’s correct.

It was about two years. But we came out so much stronger. We’re together. Money never got in between us. It never became that issue. So I have to say, I feel very fortunate. But it was two tough years. But now we think about what we do.

Anthony Codispoti (56:11)
Yeah.

And it comes to me and having had this conversation with you Sandra that mindset is a big deal for you. ⁓ The way that you approach things, the way that you get your mind healthy and ready every day. What is your approach? What practices, habits do you use?

Sandra Lee (56:35)
I say it out loud every morning, I write it down every night, and on my way home from work, I take that time in the car to reflect on the workday. So it’s those three steps. It’s say, manifest what you want by saying it out loud and writing it down, and then reflect on how close you came to it or what additional steps you may take to achieve it.

Anthony Codispoti (57:04)
So an example would be, I want ⁓ a $10,000 raise this year. And so you’re gonna say that out loud, write it down, reflect on it.

Sandra Lee (57:13)
Absolutely, absolutely. You know, I didn’t put a number, but I remember saying, I want to make significantly more money at one point in my life. And every morning I said that. And I said, I wanted it for my education. And then at night I would say, okay, what do I have to do to make that happen? And then I would reflect on it, you know, any opportunity I had and it works out. You have to be willing to sound a little foolish, look in the mirror and say,

I want, you for those of us who have struggled with weight, I struggled with my weight. I wasn’t going to wish it off, but I had to take the first step and say, I want to be healthy and healthy to me is good muscle tone and less weight. You know, that to me was healthy, right? And I wrote it down. I said it every morning and then I would reflect, did I eat healthy today? Where could I have done better? And, you know,

⁓ After a while, things just start happening and you don’t even think about it anymore. It just, it becomes your reality.

Anthony Codispoti (58:18)
So I like the ending part that you added on. ⁓ I hear some similar advice from folks where it’s like, yeah, write it down, mail it to yourself, say it out loud, et cetera. And I think those are good things, helpful things. But then the part that you added, at the end of the day, you reflect and say, OK, now what steps can I take to get me there? So it’s not waiting for a magic wand to be waved. It’s I’m putting this out there.

I’m saying it, I’m confirming it, I’m saying it out loud so that my brain and my body can hear it, and then I do the reflection on, okay, how can I get there?

Sandra Lee (58:57)
Right. Continuous improvement.

Anthony Codispoti (58:59)
Yeah, I love that. What’s your favorite thing to do outside of work?

Sandra Lee (59:03)
Okay, ⁓ watch sports. Definitely watch sports. I love to go to live games, whether it is a university game, even high school games, but I just love sports. Or, you know, I love to ride bicycles. That’s a lot of fun with my husband and we have great trails where we live.

Anthony Codispoti (59:22)
nice. Okay, Sandra, I’ve just got one more question for you today. But before I ask it, I want to do three quick things. First of all, anybody who wants to get in touch with Sandra’s company, creative dining.com, creative dining.com. We’ll have that in the show notes, but it’s easy to remember easy to spell creative dining.com. Also, as a reminder, if you want to get more hospitality employees access to therapists, doctors and prescription meds that as paradoxical as it seems,

actually increases your company’s net profits, reach out to us at adbackbenefits.com. Finally, if you are enjoying the show today, a quick comment or review on your favorite podcast app goes a long way towards helping others discover our show. So thank you for taking a quick moment to do that right now. All right, Sandra, last question for you. A year from now, what is one very specific thing that you hope to be celebrating?

Sandra Lee (1:00:17)
With my team, several of them being in new, more expansive roles that they have kind of are starting to manifest, celebrating their successes.

Anthony Codispoti (1:00:32)
Your answer there says a lot about you. It wasn’t anything that you wanted for you, it’s what you wanted for your team.

Sandra Lee (1:00:40)
It’s the team.

Anthony Codispoti (1:00:41)
Dr. I love that. Well, Dr. Sandra Lee from Creative Dining Services, I wanna be the first to thank you for sharing both your time and your story with us today. I really appreciate you.

Sandra Lee (1:00:52)
Thank you, Anthony. It was my pleasure. Have a great day.

Anthony Codispoti (1:00:56)
Folks, that’s a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories podcast. Thanks for learning with us today.