Craig Bernstein’s Journey: From Courtside at Madison Square Garden to Founding Doc B’s Restaurants

Anthony Codispoti (00:01)
Welcome to another edition of the inspired stories podcast where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired by how they’ve overcome adversity. My name is Anthony Codaspote and today’s guest is Craig Bernstein, founder and president of Doc B’s restaurant. They are a fresh casual dining concept that started in 2013 and focuses on house made mindfully sourced dishes like salads, burgers, and seasonal entrees.

They also offer an extensive selection of craft beer, wine, and spirits. Their mission is to provide an exceptional guest experience from daily made menu items to a welcoming atmosphere that becomes the go-to place in every community. Craig has expanded DocBees to multiple locations across several states, reflecting his vision for slow and steady growth. He was inspired to enter the restaurant industry after meeting Alan Bernstein, no relation.

a legendary figure from Morton Steakhouse and learning the importance of genuine hospitality. Now before founding DocBees, Craig developed his skills through various leadership roles and well-known restaurant groups. He credits his success to staying true to his father’s ethos and focusing on delivering the best possible dining experience. Now, before we get into all that good stuff, today’s episode is brought to you by my company, Advac Benefits Agency.

where we offer very specific and unique employee benefits that are both great for your restaurant team and fiscally optimized for your bottom line. Imagine being able to give your employees free access to doctors, therapists, and prescription meds. And here’s the fun part. The program actually puts more money in your employees’ pockets and the company’s too. One recent client was able to increase net profits by $900 per employee per year. Results vary for each company and some organizations may not be eligible.

To find out if your company qualifies, contact us today at addbackbenefits.com. All right, back to our guest today, the founder and president of ZocBee’s Restaurant, Craig Bernstein. Thanks for making the time to share your story today.

Craig Bernstein (02:08)
Anthony, thanks for having me. This should be fun.

Anthony Codispoti (02:11)
It’s going to be a good time. So, tell us about meeting Alan Bernstein at a Knicks game when you’re just 10 years old and how it inspired your early ambitions in the restaurant world.

Craig Bernstein (02:23)
crazy, you know, I sometimes think what if I didn’t go to that game? What would life turn out to be? But ⁓ long story short, my father who was a doctor and sort of will get into all of that, but ⁓ he received tickets to a Knicks game and we had to pick straws out of a hat of who got to go with dad that game ⁓ after school.

and I had a little sister, I had an older brother, and I was a middle child, and somehow I won. picked the smallest straw out of a hat. Dad picked me up, we lived in Long Island, and we drove to Madison Square Garden in the city, and it turns out the seats were the highest row at the garden. And, you know, although way at the top, and although I was still excited to be there, I should have brought my binoculars. And at, um…

Anthony Codispoti (03:12)
way at the top.

Craig Bernstein (03:22)
During halftime, he points down to what used to be referred to, maybe still is, as Celebrity Row. And, you know, Spike Lee and Bill Murray and some of these, you know, New York legendary people, that’s where they would sit. And he points down and he says, Craig, you see that guy down there? That’s my friend. He has tickets on the floor. And as a precocious 10-year-old, I said, I want to go meet him.

And so we trekked all the way down from the highest row down to celebrity row. And there was a velvet rope. You couldn’t get through. My dad’s yelling, Alan, Alan. And Alan lets us through or tells the security guy to let us through. And I’m standing on the court of the Knicks arena. And I’m I’m floored at what I’m seeing. We end up going back to our seats.

talking about that experience. I’m in the sixth grade and almost the very next day, I have to do a career report. ⁓ What do you want to be when you grow up? And actually, I skipped one part of the story. Let me go back. The next day, Alan calls my dad and he gives my dad the tickets to take us to a game. Seats on the floor.

Anthony Codispoti (04:44)
His tickets, his seat’s on the floor.

Craig Bernstein (04:48)
So the whole family goes, we sit on the floor, we have a full experience. Now I’m in the sixth grade. What do you want to be when you grow up? I come home, we’re having dinner as a family. I say to my dad,

you know, I have to do a career report. What do I want to be when I grow up? And he says, do you want to be a doctor like me? And I said, no, I want to be like the guy who has the tickets at the Knicks game. What does that guy do? And he said, well, remember the restaurant we went to before the game? And I said, yeah. He said, well, he owns that restaurant. And so my career report was titled restaurant entrepreneur.

Somehow I still have it. It’s on the company’s website, which is crazy how for some reason I saved this. And from 10 years old all the way through kind of life, I always just would say, I’m gonna own restaurants when I get older. And I guess that’s what happened.

Anthony Codispoti (05:48)
Because for you, it was so impressive that this guy had these seats on the floor at Madison Square Garden. It was impressive. It was a status thing. You’re like, whatever he’s doing, I want some of that.

Craig Bernstein (06:03)
Yeah, I think as a 10 year old, was just like, want to be like hip. And then when we would go to the restaurant and this, this individual Allen sort of became a mentor of mine as I got older and I did really start to establish myself in the restaurant business, whether that was 16 years old working in a bakery or working on business plans. When I thought that I was going to start my own restaurant right out of college, but

I think it was the experience that I would get when I dined in a restaurant with Alan. Over the top, every dessert coming to the table, every appetizer, them welcoming you by name, just sort of the whole experience. Certainly at the time I didn’t realize what went into it behind the scenes. Sort of wish he kind of told me about that. But all the front facing.

customer experience components of the restaurant business and on top of that the four court-side Nick tickets I was like this is a great job. I’m gonna do this

Anthony Codispoti (07:09)
Yeah,

you loved being on the receiving end of all of that glory. You’re like, Hey, I want to be in the business of delivering that for other people.

Craig Bernstein (07:17)
Yeah, and I think being in the restaurant with Alan and we were dining together and he would take us and I was a kid. The way in which he was treated in the restaurant and the way that he was able to enjoy kind of what he called work, I think maybe put something into my mind and thought, wow, this is a really incredible job. ⁓

in addition to maybe some of the perks and the benefits that being successful in this business could offer, it didn’t really seem like he was working very hard when we would go into the restaurant. I guess I, again, just didn’t realize what led to all of that. Yeah, I mean, as an 11 year old, yeah, yeah, exactly. So yeah, so I think meeting Alan,

Anthony Codispoti (08:04)
And sometimes that ignorance can be bliss. Otherwise, you might not have walked through that door.

Craig Bernstein (08:16)
you know, is a cute story as a 10 year old and sitting on the court side of a New York Knicks game and then having the experiences with him. then, you know, he, he, he’s no longer with us. passed away before I started Doc B’s, but you know, he would take my call, you know, if I would call him and ask him questions as I was going through my career and

You know, he really impacted my entire life. I mean, even, you know, maybe we’ll get into it today, but when I went to go work for, you know, Houston’s restaurants, as a 22 year old, you know, that was because of Alan sort of pointed me in that direction. And without those little, you know, guidances, you know, I think life is very different for me.

Anthony Codispoti (09:00)
So is Houston’s, is that stop before or after the stop where there was the, ⁓ you’re doing the name dropping of the famous executive?

Craig Bernstein (09:11)
Yeah, it feels like I’m name dropping all these people. like two for two already. But I was in college and I must have been a junior or senior because I hadn’t yet figured out what I was going to do after I graduated. And I was working on a business plan to start my own restaurant right out of college. And I went to Emory University in Atlanta and

or studying business and in a couple of like extracurricular entrepreneurial style classes or groups. And there was a, ⁓ the college town was called Emory Village and there was a 1500 square foot space there.

I would meet with contractors. would, you know, dine out and like take notes of, you know, this is what we would do differently. So I came up with this business idea called Bernie’s New York Deli. So Bernstein, Bernie was my nickname growing up. Bernie’s New York Deli. And it wasn’t going to be a Jewish deli. That’s what people always refer to it as. I’m like,

This would be a bodega New York style bacon egg and cheese in the morning, boar’s head turkey sandwiches for lunch, chicken cutlets, the whole thing. By the way, thank somebody that this didn’t happen. So I’m at Emory, I’m working on this business plan. I think that’s gonna be my job right out of college. And Howard Schultz of Starbucks.

comes to do a talk to the entire business school at Emory University. And I get selected after that talk.

to go meet with him in a small intimate group of maybe eight to 10 people. And I think I got selected maybe because of the entrepreneurial groups that I was in. And we were having coffee and he sort of points to me and he says, oh, what are you gonna do when you graduate? And I said, oh, and I got into like pitch mode. I was gonna like pitch Howard Schultz on investing in things like New York Deli. I’m like.

Anthony Codispoti (11:08)
There. This is a good opportunity. Yeah.

Craig Bernstein (11:15)
Well, actually, everything I just told you, I tell Howard Schultz. And he’s like, oh, yeah, sounds like a great idea, but maybe you should get some experience in management and restaurants and just be a little bit more prepared before you go out on your own.

We, at the time, think it was maybe called Maverin Capital, which was his investment vehicle, had invested in potbelly sandwich works. And they had like 30 or 40 restaurants at the time. And he said, we just invested in potbellies. And you know, that would be a great place. You should go apply with them and maybe go get some experience. And I think that would be a great first step for you. So I had never heard of potbellies. So I go, yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (12:01)
Okay, it’s brand new at that point. Like you said, just a few

dozen locations.

Craig Bernstein (12:05)
few dozen locations and they were building, were mostly in Chicago and then they started to build in like the Virginia, Maryland, DC area. So not to date myself, it’s not like this is 1975, but this is like 2003, 2004, know, websites, Google was just, you know, kind of coming about. So I go to my, I think probably my fraternity house to be honest, I write this generic email to potbelly.com.

Anthony Codispoti (12:23)
Early days, but it’s there.

Craig Bernstein (12:32)
My name is Craig Bernstein. I just met Howard Schultz and he told me that when I graduate, I should come work for you. Thanks. Give me a call. Craig, something like that. Cause I’m like, I’m opening my deli. I’m just doing this just in case. So the next morning, Brian Kyle, founder, chairman, CEO of Potbelly calls my phone. It’s like seven o’clock in the morning. I…

You know, this is before we sort of checked the caller ID to see who it was. I answered the phone and he introduces himself and he’s like, I got your email. I need to hear this story. What is this about Howard Schultz? Tell me what’s going on. So I tell him the story and I went on an interview and I went to go visit Popfellas. It was amazing. It was incredible. I loved it.

And so ultimately, potbellies, as a result of Howard Schultz, became my first job out of college.

Anthony Codispoti (13:36)
And that steered you away from opening that New York style bodega.

Craig Bernstein (13:40)
Yeah, mean, thank you know, thank God because of all the hurdles that I probably didn’t know were going to come my way. You know, thank God I didn’t do it. And potbellies was an amazing experience. Worked for them for, you know, really a short period of time because I kind of took the bait on a different opportunity. And I probably left potbellies a little bit prematurely. But the time that I was there,

very very impactful, very memorable and an experience that I have so many incredible you know stories that have shaped me today.

Anthony Codispoti (14:18)
What’s the biggest thing that you learned there that you still carry with you today, Craig?

Craig Bernstein (14:23)
Yeah, mean, you know, back then, I mean, their attention to detail and the proudness of the employees and the team members was really incredible. And I just remember the enthusiasm that the GM of mine had for his job was really so infectious.

and yeah I still remember those days like it was yesterday and there was an acronym that they used I’m sure it’s still in the handbook but I don’t know how it’s called sideways and I still remember the acronym I mean this is like 20 years ago I don’t have any material in front of me like I literally I could recite it to you right now and I just think the company culture

⁓ really was very impactful and the enthusiasm and the genuineness even though it was sandwiches really was it was was it was amazing

Anthony Codispoti (15:22)
For me, the most fun part about that story is you name dropping Howard Schultz in that email and just sort of firing it off like, like, I don’t really expect to hear anything. But the next morning, like hours later, you get a call from the found.

Craig Bernstein (15:30)
Yeah

Yeah, I mean, looking back now, mean, even like in my position, we have 10, they had 40. If somebody wrote an email and I saw that name of the equivalency to this business, I mean, I’d be calling that person too.

Anthony Codispoti (15:52)
So an effective strategy, even today. So how did the idea to start DocBees come about?

Craig Bernstein (15:54)
Yeah, it’s very effective.

Yeah, so after pot belly, I was sort of in a little bit of a rut because I left in what I ultimately left to do, which was still in the restaurant business, didn’t pan out the way that it was supposed to. And I was pretty, I don’t think I was fully depressed, but I was like, oh my goodness, what just happened? Pot belly was incredible.

I could have been a rising star there. I was a believer in the business. ⁓ And so I found my way ⁓ into Houston’s restaurants, which also is referred to sometimes as Hillstone Restaurant Group, sort of worked my way through that program, which is kind of a whole nother story. But to answer your question about Doc Bees, no, mean, it’s kind of a cool, I mean, listen, I think,

Anthony Codispoti (16:43)
Well, should we should we sidetrack on that? Like what?

Yeah, let’s hear it.

Craig Bernstein (16:50)
know what Houston’s taught me, first of all, just going back to the Alan Bernstein reference, and this is why I think the mentorship is so important. I was in this rut, I was thriving to potbellies, I left for an opportunity, and I said to Alan, what the heck am I gonna do? I mean, this is really bad. And he said, the…

the number one restaurant group, and this is even when he was the chairman of Morton’s, said the number one restaurant group in America is Houston’s. And if you can go work for them, it’ll be like going to Harvard and getting your above and beyond MBA in restaurant management and operations. And so I just became maniacally focused on going to work for Houston’s.

And I didn’t get accepted. So I applied to Houston’s to become a manager in training. They denied me. They basically say, you know, you have limited full service restaurant experience. Go get some more experience and reapply. And I kind of, you know, probably wasn’t as refined, although I probably still have not refined as much as I should be.

But I wasn’t as refined as I think they expected me to be for the position in which I was applying for. So I said to them, well, what if I get experience as a server working for you and I try to work my way up versus going to get experience somewhere else and then reapplying? And they said, you know, it’s always better to work your way through. And this goes to sort of the way that we build our business now.

but it’s always better to get experience from within and work your way up than it is to try from the outside and come back. So that’s exactly what I did. So I applied to become a server, got accepted to be a server. They ultimately told me, I was like the worst server. They’re like, you’re a great guy, love your personality, terrible server. So they like started to create like a position for me. Long story short, let me kind of jump to. I worked my way through the Houston’s

manager and training program, I finally got accepted. I became a general manager with them, which was a huge, I was so humbled and it’s one of the greatest accomplishments of my life and in my business career above and beyond so much else. And while I was doing that position, I started to see that guests wanted Houston’s food.

but in a to-go way. So they would come in and try to place their orders to go. And at the time the answer was no. So they would sit at the bar, order the food to go, order the food for there. They’d get the food, then they asked for a box. They’d box it up and then they’d leave. And I started to just brainstorm and I was like, there has to be a more efficient way to sort of serve this level of food in a to-go environment.

And so at the time, Payway, which was started by P.F. Chang’s, was starting to pop up. And so I started to really study like the Payway model, the digital menu boards and the order at the counter and then go sit down and it’s a little bit more, it wasn’t in like a basket or to, know, disposable plateware, it’s real plateware with a dishwasher in the back.

So my idea was basically for Doc Bees, how do you create a pay way version of American themed, higher end dining restaurants, which at the time I knew of as Houston’s, but anything, fill in the blank. And that’s really where the idea originally came for Doc Bees. That was a long answer, I’m sorry.

Anthony Codispoti (20:52)
So yeah, but it was great. And there’s

one part I want to zero back in on is ⁓ how you applied to Houston’s and you were denied. like a lot of people at that point, they throw in the towel. They’re like, ⁓ like, I don’t know, I’m to go somewhere else. But you had gotten advice from Alan Bernstein, the founder of Morton’s, your mentor, who said,

You know, this would be a great, like above and beyond an MBA, a PhD in restaurant. And so you’re like, I am focused on this. So you ask them for advice and they’re like, yeah, better to kind of work your way up within. And so what you did, you humbled yourself and you’re like, I’m going to apply for a server position, which happened to feel like a step down from, the trajectory that you were on before, right?

Craig Bernstein (21:39)
Totally, it did, but it also felt necessary. You know, I think in the moment, you know, maybe you don’t realize all these things and I was never disgruntled. You know, I never felt like, I was so excited. I was just so enthusiastic and I was so… ⁓

I kept sort of seeing the future as I was going through the present. And I’m like, all right, this is all for a step. And I believe in myself and I’m going to make it happen. And it turns out that again, the general manager, which goes back to hopefully how we run our business today, but whether it was the general manager of PopBellies, the general manager of Houston’s, these are really the people who shaped my entire life.

and the trajectory, if it was a different general manager at Houston’s, I don’t think the journey plays itself out the way that it…

Anthony Codispoti (22:35)
You learned

so much from that GM at that time that

Craig Bernstein (22:38)
Changed my life. Changed my life. And some of it is opportunistic. You have to be able to take it as it comes. For example, I remember after I sort of wasn’t a great server, they created this, not created, but they moved me into a position of like salad expediter. And, but the GM saw that opportunity for me, which led me to become a salad expediter.

And then he moved me to become a hot expediter. And then after the hot expediter, he was like, all right, maybe now you’re ready to go work the floor in sort of a shift lead position. And so maybe it was an opportunity because they needed a salad expediter. I sort of raised my hand. said, you know, choose me. But a lot of it also was because the GM chose me, right? So there was an opportunity, salad expediter, that particular GM chooses me.

Now, hopefully some of my own abilities helps me to succeed. And now I go through the process, but I never felt like it took a step back. I was really excited. And I think the GMs and the leaders in the store ultimately play the most crucial role in the team members than probably anybody else in the organization.

Anthony Codispoti (24:04)
Yeah.

Craig Bernstein (24:06)
So I was privileged that so far in that career, I had two great GMs.

Anthony Codispoti (24:12)
So I’ve never had the opportunity to go into a Doc B’s. Paint a picture for us. What is the customer experience like?

Craig Bernstein (24:20)
Well, you know, it’s funny, you know, the first thing that many of the, the, the greeters do is they open the door for the guest. And that’s not even in the handbook, by the way. It’s not like open the door for the guests. And when I watch this, I’m sort of amazed that what’s in the handbook is this term, genuine hospitality. And

I think the word hospitality is well known and the word genuine is well known and you put them together, I think it creates something very special. And so I watched the greeters open the door. It’s not part of the steps of service. And I think that is really the epitome of maybe what Doc B’s is from a guest first impression.

There’s a bartender and they’re sort of facing the front door and they’re kind of waving to you. So you’ve got this greeter opening the door, you’ve got this bartender, hi, how are you? And everybody’s just genuinely friendly. mean, that is the cornerstone of what the business is really built on and the foundation. And, you know, over time, as we’ve now expanded into, you know, five states and we have 10 restaurants and we have, you know, big ambitions for more.

I think it’s trying to be this neighborhood restaurant where you’re welcomed by name and not in this hyperbole sort of way, like the cheers, you know, like, Hey Norm, but genuine. That’s how we say hi to people. But this neighborhood feel with sort of chain like systems so that the experiences are consistent from

Anthony Codispoti (25:55)
Norm.

Craig Bernstein (26:13)
time to time and place to place. But first and foremost, it’s genuine hospitality and hopefully a neighborhood feel of a restaurant where you feel comfortable to use that experience however you choose necessary. real quick, you kind of go into a restaurant, you’re a single diner, you’re like, I’ll just sit at the bar. In my restaurant, in our restaurant, we want you to feel just as comfortable to

Go sit at a four top, you know? And I think whatever you wanna use Doc Bees for is how we want you to feel comfortable to use it. And the foods, when the food is right, the food is the best of that item you’ve ever tasted. You know, the cornerstone of the menu is familiarity where you can relate to what you ordered.

Anthony Codispoti (26:52)
Tell us about the food.

Craig Bernstein (27:11)
But hopefully it stands out as the best of that item you’ve ever tasted. So the number one salad on our menu is the knife and fork cop salad. Everybody’s had a cop salad. We serve ours on a plate with beautifully crisp chicken that’s cooked to order, you know, when the order comes in, plated with house made Dijon honey sauce that’s perfectly drizzled over the top with a side of salad with

you know, bacon that’s cooked fresh throughout the day with homemade cornbread croutons and steamed eggs to order. And you know, just this like freshness that goes with it. So everybody’s had a Cobb salad.

But the way in which we present our Cobb salad and the care and the pride that it takes for that Cobb salad, the goal is that people look at it and they go, this is the best Cobb salad I’ve ever had. And then we try to take that over the course of 75 menu items and you have to repeat that day in and day out every single time. That’s, think where maybe the challenges lie.

But the food should be delicious and should be craveable every single time.

Anthony Codispoti (28:26)
So I want to, how do I want to go about this? Tell us about the coaster. Yeah.

Craig Bernstein (28:30)
Other coaster.

Yeah. So, you know, so many people think that the business Doc B’s is owned and sort of operated by this doctor. And for many years, and maybe even still to this day, I think sometimes people assume it’s a healthy quinoa bowl and

kale salads style restaurant. I think our fried chicken by the way is delicious. And so we don’t have many opportunities to kind of tell the story about where the name Doc Bees comes from. And it’s not in fact a doctor who created this healthful restaurant. In fact, just a quick sidebar on that. We kind of started the business around like True Food Kitchen when they started and Sweet Green was really coming up.

So Dr. Weil with True Food, and then we have Doc B’s Fresh Kitchen and Sweet Green. So I really wanted to try to figure out how to message that the business is named after my father, who was an incredible doctor. lot of the ethos and foundation of our business is around his bedside manner and how he took care of his patients and things like that. But we created this coaster and on the back of it, I

sort of write this note to all of our guests in all the restaurants. And it just sort of tells the story. Thank you for choosing Doc B’s since opening our first restaurant in 2013 and naming it after my late father. I have loved to hear from our guests and it’s sort of, sign it and I give them my email address so that we can correspond because one of the things I miss is the interaction with all of our guests. And so this was a double way.

to tell our story and also tell guests. I’d love to hear from you.

Anthony Codispoti (30:33)
What is that email address for folks that want to reach out?

Craig Bernstein (30:35)
Yeah, well, so it’s founder at docbz.com and I check it. It’s on my phone and I’ve responded. yeah. And I, and I’ve responded to every single one. In fact, I wrote to one this morning and I wrote to him. said, I hope dinner was great. And he started off by saying his response back. It wasn’t. And I hadn’t opened it yet. And I said, my goodness. And he writes, it was amazing. And you know,

Anthony Codispoti (30:44)
You are the one who actually checks this email address. You see what comes through in that, okay?

Craig Bernstein (31:05)
I said, all right, I’ll prepare now to talk to Anthony in a positive way.

Anthony Codispoti (31:11)
I love it. So the restaurant’s actually named for your late father, Dr. Bernstein Doc B. And how did it actually work that you were able to open that first location? How did you pull that off?

Craig Bernstein (31:23)
Yes, so ⁓ the idea for the first restaurant was much more along the lines of this fast casual order at the counter restaurant. So that restaurant was around 3,000 square feet. I had worked my way through the restaurant business, the GM position with Houston’s, and I did one more stop before I ultimately started the company.

And, you know, went out and raised money and brought on, you know, great partners of the business. And, you know, we started the first restaurant on ⁓ Walton Street in the Gold Coast neighborhood of Chicago. And almost simultaneously, we kind of committed to store two before store one was opened. And… ⁓

But yeah, but you know, out there. Absolutely.

Anthony Codispoti (32:21)
Sometimes a fatal mistake for restaurants sort of growing

too soon before you’ve got the platform figured out.

Craig Bernstein (32:27)
Totally. And I think at the time, you know, it was this like fast casual and we wanted to kind of get the name out there and it was seven blocks apart. So we felt like maybe it was, you know, something that we could manage and operate. And thank God it was so close and, you know, thank goodness that we saw a little bit in the future, even as we were building the business. but yeah, but we, you know, went out there and…

told the story of what I envisioned building and ultimately was able to create that partnership.

Anthony Codispoti (33:00)
How hard was it for you to raise money? Did you have a network of folks that were kind of in that space?

Craig Bernstein (33:05)
Yeah, well have to remember I’ve been pitching this story since I was 10. So I wouldn’t say it was easy, I genuinely had been working on this since I was 20 years old in college. some of my partners, even today, were with me.

Anthony Codispoti (33:13)
So you’ve picked up a few business cards along the way.

Craig Bernstein (33:35)
back when I was 20, and they were saying to me, I’ll give you this today, just to kind of roll the dice and see what happens. But imagine what the comfortability might be to give to you in an investment in 10 years, if we go get all that experience over the next decade. And it turns out that that statement was correct. And so I think the learning opportunity is,

Sometimes you don’t want, you gotta always follow your gut. My gut told me this isn’t the right time to do this. And I’m really happy that I didn’t.

Anthony Codispoti (34:14)
You know, that’s an interesting point your gut told you, because I think listening to your gut is so powerful. It’s so important. But sometimes I feel like my guts lying to me. I don’t know if my gut is being honest or if that’s just fear bubbling up like, maybe I shouldn’t do this because the time’s not right. Or I don’t in your case, I didn’t have the right experience. Or am I just being afraid and I need to push through?

Craig Bernstein (34:39)
Yeah, and think there’s a big separator, right? 20 years old, no real experience, you know, other than kind of selling muffins and iced coffees as a 17 year old. And it’s like, gut tells me Howard Schultz is probably right. And then there’s gut instinct that says, maybe I shouldn’t go open the third restaurant in Florida because

I’m nervous or because what if it doesn’t work out? But then I think you have to kind of see through those challenges and you know, do a decision tree and the pros and the cons and really kind of overshadow what might be what your gut tells you. I think those are those are two different scenarios. So, you know, I’ve always been able to follow the guidelines.

of instinct may be over gut reaction. And I think that’s probably a differentiator.

Anthony Codispoti (35:45)
I like that. So how far into the venture were you before you were like, okay, this is going to work. This this is working.

Craig Bernstein (35:55)
I mean, I don’t think I’m there yet. I don’t think I’m there yet. No, no. And I, I mean, that’s genuine answer. You know, I think we’re doing well. You know, there’s no doubt. We can certainly always be doing better. And, you know, I think we make a lot of sports analogies in the, in the business, at least I do, you know, and.

Anthony Codispoti (35:57)
Five states 10 restaurants later still not there.

Craig Bernstein (36:21)
We talk about quarterback goes 15 for 27 and you know, we talk about the 12 they missed versus the 15 they caught, you know, and I think, so we’re doing well, but the business plan is multiple decades sort of outlined. And when I’m looking out into the future,

I think that’s the part that sometimes scares me. So that’s when I have to come and be a little bit more present. those are probably the best reactions to have. But I think to sort of answer the question more realistically.

You know, after we transitioned the business from order at the counter to full service at stores one and two in Chicago, and we saw the sales lift that that transition did, and then ultimately turned the future stores into larger footprints, bigger bars, catering more to a dinner, customer base.

That’s when I started to realize that this business has a lot more potential than what maybe the business plan was initially, which was, you know, four or five or $6,000 a day in sales. Once we went to full service and I saw what sales could be, that really validated that the new idea off of the foundation of the first idea is probably what

what should drive the business forward.

Anthony Codispoti (38:05)
So that was probably the biggest evolution from the initial concept to where you are now. Was it hard to dip your toe in the water and start going that direction? Because you’re kind of anchored to this original concept over here.

Craig Bernstein (38:09)
By far. Yeah.

It’s amazing how everything really does happen for a reason. And there’s so many things that in the moment you don’t realize how that’s going to play an impact in the future. So when we were opening store number one, one of our original partners in the business said to me, you know, I really think we should have a bar in the restaurant. know, it’s downtown Chicago.

office buildings, hotels, I think there needs to be a bar. But if you think about the vision, Payway, ⁓ Panera Bread, Chipotle at the time, a bar component was not part of their business model. And so I took a piece of real estate within already a small footprint of 3,000 square feet and we carved out a bar. Full service liquor license, beer, wine, cocktail list.

And so we had a nine seat bar in the corner where you can place your order with a bartender and be given a traditional menu. And the remaining guests, 90 % of our guests, you order on this digital menu board, a la pay way or a fast casual experience. And so as guests started to see the bar experience and saw the menus,

they sort of pointed to the menus and I was the manager and I was on the floor working. They would say, young man, go get me one of those menus. I’m gonna go sit at that table and come take my order. And maybe they said please and thank you at the end. And so we did that and all of a sudden the model started to become 50-50. Some people would want that, some people would want that and it started to become very confusing. And so… ⁓

without that bar component, which was never in the business model. And it was just an idea that this individual suggested, and I agreed with it, or maybe did or didn’t, but went with it. Without that bar component, I don’t think we would have ever been able to transition to a full service restaurant inside of that fast casual environment.

And I’m not sure if we would have been able to adapt as quickly as we did, which ultimately turned into much greater success than we were having at a strictly order at the counter ⁓ restaurant concept.

Anthony Codispoti (40:51)
So as entrepreneurs, we are always distracted by shiny objects, right? Like, ⁓ like there’s an idea. Let’s go do that. Let’s do that. And so, you know, I’m going to guess you’ve probably heard the same. lot of the coaching advice that we get is, you know, you need to stay focused. It’s better to say no than say yes. But this is an example of the complete opposite, where it’s like you had a plan, you had a vision in place. And this idea

to add a bar component that didn’t fit into that plan. How do you sort of think about that? Like when to say no to the shiny object versus when to be flexible and open to change?

Craig Bernstein (41:29)
I mean I think you do have to be a good listener and I love business you know and I love the restaurant business and I love brainstorming and writing down ideas and looking at different concepts and just sort of filling my brain with ideas and so as you talk through this idea the idea itself does make sense. Hey Craig we have this piece of real estate on the corner of Michigan Avenue and Walton

surrounded by all these offices, hotels, and residential buildings, it’s probably a good idea to have a bar. And I think knowing that my past experience knew about a bar, in other words, let’s say my only experience was potbellies and I didn’t know about a bar.

then maybe I would shy away from that idea. But the idea fit within the realm of my knowledge and experience, and it didn’t really scare me. So I think being a good listener, trusting that people’s intentions, especially in this example, he was a partner in our business, he only wanted to see it be successful. understanding where and who it’s coming from, and then also having just the skill sets to adapt to that.

I think sort of opened my mind up to say yes, and then to transition to a full service restaurant, the foundation never changed. It’s not like we went from serving American themed food and then all of a sudden we were listening to our guests because they said, change to Italian. The foundation was serve the best food you possibly can. Give the best service experience around.

create an environment that people can’t wait to return to. Whether or not we gave them a buzzer for the food or we rang in their order at the table, I don’t think that that was a big adaptation. I think that was just being open-minded and going, ⁓ it’s not working now.

So this idea can only benefit us. Let’s be open-minded and see what happens. And ultimately it worked. And I think sort of to land the plane on that thought, being present, know, being an absentee owner or an absentee entrepreneur, I mean, A, it was never in the cards, but certainly if I was,

I wouldn’t have seen firsthand how guests were using our business. And because I was there every day and saw and listened and heard, it gave me also the confidence that this was the right decision versus coming to me through, you know, store level managers or something along those lines.

Anthony Codispoti (44:25)
So I mentioned before I’ve never been to one of your locations before but I have to zero in I have to ask about a particular menu item. Tell me about the number six.

Craig Bernstein (44:38)
man, that’s funny. Well, so again, going back when we started the business, was a ⁓ more casual themed restaurant. Sandwiches, burgers, salads and pizza, basically, maybe one or two entrees. And growing up, my favorite fast food restaurant was Wendy’s. And if when I would go to Wendy’s, I would get the spicy chicken sandwich.

And the spicy chicken sandwich, which is still today, is the number six on the value menu. So number one is a burger, number two is a double burger, and the number six spicy chicken sandwich. So I thought it would be cute and fun to sort of call the spicy chicken sandwich at Doc B’s the number six. Like we spell out the number six. And it was kind of like one of those things where if you know, know.

And people to this day, it’s the number one chicken sandwich, which going back even to my last comment, the Cobb salad, number one salad. So crispy chicken is very much in these days. But the number six is based off of the value menu at Wendy’s as the number six on their value menu.

Anthony Codispoti (45:55)
Were you at all concerned that, Wendy’s was going to sort of get whiff of this and come after you with some sort of a cease and desist letter.

Craig Bernstein (46:03)
hilarious story around that because the answer is yes. And I always was like, I wonder if that’s a trademark number relative to a chicken sandwich. So crazy story for you. Again, I’m going to name drop again, but I promise you know, these are all just by chance stories. I’m at a restaurant in Chicago. I’m dining out with a buddy of mine. There’s a large table next to me of

two women and sort of younger, what looked like children to them, know, mid-2030s. And they point to our table because we had just gotten this dessert and they started making conversations. How’s the dessert? And have you guys dined here before? So my friend starts talking to this table and responding and something comes up about Doc B’s and

the women at the table say, we love Doc Bees. Every time we visit from Ohio, we always go to Doc Bees. And my friend says something along the lines of, you have to get their chicken sandwich. And it turns out the daughter of this woman says, ah, she’s more of a Wendy’s girl. And we were like, what does that mean?

and they must have been having maybe some drinks that night because it comes out that the woman we’re talking to is Wendy of Wendy’s.

Anthony Codispoti (47:36)
the

daughter of Dave Thomas, the founder of Wendy’s from Columbus, Ohio.

Craig Bernstein (47:42)
The Wendy, yes. And so it turns out she becomes my friend. She sent me a text a few months ago that she was in one of the restaurants and had such a great experience, which was such a humbling message to receive. And I said to her, said, you know, we have this menu and it’s called the number six. You guys can sue me for that? She goes, Craig, you are so far below our radar.

of where we’re focused. Don’t worry, you’re safe to continue to call it the number six. And so it was a cute story. It’s amazing. You never know who you’re going to meet. you know, meeting Wendy Thomas was, you know, one of the greatest meetings ⁓ of this life so far.

Anthony Codispoti (48:30)
And how does she feel about the sandwich today?

Craig Bernstein (48:33)
And it was delicious. She said she still likes the Wendy’s version just a little better, but our spicy chicken sandwich is definitely a close second.

Anthony Codispoti (48:45)
⁓ boy, so many fun ways to take this. ⁓ You know, you’ve been supported by a lot of notable people, ⁓ entrepreneurs, general managers, know, dropped names, you know, Alan Bernstein. ⁓ I see this spirit of helping others in you. Can you hold up the comic book there that you have on your desk?

So for listeners, this is a comic book written by my now nine year old at the time, eight year old son, Valentino. And ⁓ Craig and I have gotten a chance to know each other a bit before we recorded this interview today. And I shared the story with him that my son had drawn these comics and sold a whole bunch of them at a local yard sale. And Craig was so excited about it that he insisted that he be able to buy one and support him. And I think we were only charging

two bucks for them at the yard sale. And Craig sent over $20, lit my son up. Thinks he’s famous, couldn’t like, $20 is like a million dollars to him. And he just wanted to support the mission, support my son and you know, where his entrepreneurial spirit may take him. And so I just wanted to kind of tip my hat there because that was a cool thing that you did for him.

Craig Bernstein (50:09)
And I mean, well, you’re welcome and it is a great read. So look for it in a bookstore near you. But you know, I think the reason that was exciting to do it is, you know, I just kind of reflect back on all these interactions and people that I’ve met. Obviously I’ve mentioned a few of them, but so many of them have just been by happenstance. And you just never know.

what will sort of shape somebody’s mind or life or their future. And so I thought it would just be cool. you know, maybe Val becomes this amazing comic book author one day because he sold his first one at eight and that’s just the memory he keeps with him forever. So I thought it was, I thought it was $20 well spent.

Anthony Codispoti (50:58)
Much appreciated on our side. I think that spirit, like, carries over into developing your own team there at Doc B’s. You guys have a 16-week training program that you take folks through. Talk to me about why you feel like that kind of really robust investment in employee growth is so

Craig Bernstein (51:18)
Yeah, mean, definitely promoted from within individuals on our team, many times become the most successful. So servers who turn into general managers and we look back, the company’s only 12 years old. We look back 10 years and.

they’re thriving and still on the teams and it brings me chills just to tell the story now. And so I think the 16 week training program is so important because we’re bringing people from the outside. The more foundational insights without having to rush the experience, the more…

those people can become almost like promoted from within individuals. It’s not obviously identical, but I think it at least puts us in a position where that cultural foundation is set at the very onset of the orientation that outlines what the next four months are going to look like. And

Not only do you learn the cultural components, almost as if you’re starting from whatever hourly position working your way up, but it also includes learning the tangible skill sets of everything that you will have to do or oversee. And I think it sets you up for success, obviously to do the job if you need to, but also be able to manage.

more truthfully and honestly because you yourself have gone through those steps of service, both in the front as well as in the back of house. So I think it’s just important to create the foundation for the culture and then also develops the tangible skill sets that hopefully your long-term tenure will in and out have to to portray.

Anthony Codispoti (53:28)
So it’s like kind of zoom out and look at what you guys have been doing. It seems like you’ve taken kind of a slow and steady growth mindset here. Let’s look for the right places, the right opportunities to expand rather than, we’ve got something that’s working. Let’s just throw gasoline on the fire and open as many spots as we can as quickly as possible. What is this growth trajectory look like going forward for you guys?

Craig Bernstein (53:58)
Yeah, I think I mentioned it earlier. You know, I’m definitely…

decades long in the future and there is no exit strategy and there’s no sort of number that I look to that says this is when it all ends and let’s just get there as fast as possible. I think when I have this idea of this long-term great mindset for

myself as you know somebody who’s continuing to try to get better in their job but also for the business as a whole and so when you have a long-term approach I think being opportunistic when the time is right but also being thoughtful with those decisions for is this the right long-term decision helps to make the right one so the business is ⁓

you know, one restaurant a year, maybe in outside years, eight years from now, it’s two restaurants a year, but there is no goal for store count in some period of time. It’s really, how do you find the best real estate so that it can be there for a very long time? It can be successful on its own and that it also ⁓

you know, can grow with the neighborhood that it goes into as everybody grows together versus sort of being late to it. We sort of want to be in the middle, a little bit up and coming, a little bit, you know, future oriented, but we don’t want to, we don’t want to, you know, sign a lease just because the restaurant count needs to be there.

Anthony Codispoti (55:55)
Yeah.

any recent locations that have opened or new ones coming you want to give voice to?

Craig Bernstein (56:03)
You know, this past year, so about six months ago, we opened a restaurant in Cary, North Carolina. It’s just outside of Raleigh. Gorgeous, beautiful city and area of the country. It opened in a lifestyle center called Fenton. And it’s amazing. I love going down there. In fact, I’m going to go there after I speak with you, go spend some time with the team and…

it’s really nice and it’s almost how do you capture that 10 more times and I think as excited as I am about our business there’s also a humbleness part where

the real estate plays such a major impact on the success, at least the immediate success of the business, that I don’t think you don’t want to rush it. And the more restaurants you open, the more you realize what’s right and what maybe you would have done different. So the more leases you sign and the quicker you do it, you can’t pull those decisions back as you continue to kind of learn more.

And so that’s another reason why kind of slow and steady growth allows you to digest new openings, take a little bit of a peripheral view into it and now make better decisions for the future, which has taken me a couple of years to learn also.

Anthony Codispoti (57:31)
Craig, as you look back, what’s the serious challenge in your life that you’ve had to overcome?

Craig Bernstein (57:38)
Well, mean, probably many. think, know, certainly, you know, the business is obviously named after my father. You know, my father passed away. ⁓ He was young. passed away of a glioblastoma grade four malignant brain tumor, which really came out of the blue when he was diagnosed. woke up one day.

went for his morning run, usually consisted of eight to 10 miles, came back from his run and out of the blue started slurring his words. And ultimately it turned out to be a devastating diagnosis and very quickly his life ⁓ sort of started to really unravel and he got very, very sick. And as somebody who was sort of in the midst of their career,

you know, the start of their career at the time I was a general manager with Houston’s. You know, I could have probably taken two paths. I guess I could have stopped working and go spend, you know, more individual time with my dad and been there alongside him. But instead, I sort of honestly chose both. I kept my career path.

in motion. I lived my life, I still live my life. What would my dad expect of me? And you know, certainly he unfortunately wasn’t able to communicate after he got sick. But if he was, he would have told me, Craig, this is my life and this is your life and you better not let my life now negatively impact your life. So continue on the path you’re on.

But what I did was I kind of kept a lot of this to myself, not in a tough way, but I would go to work, work a full shift at the time, it could be 12 hours, and then I would go see my dad at the hospital after a shift. Then I would do it all over again.

And so I got to see my father and have those experiences with him, which were really important. And I’m really happy that I was able to be there with him. But I also was able to know what he would expect of me. And that, you know, probably, you know, was the hardest time of my life, both personally and professionally.

But I think it taught me so much more. Certainly I wish my dad was here, of course, every day, but he’s not. And there’s so many lessons that have now come as a result of him not being here that my life has become what it is because of the tragedy that my family and I went through and the type of sickness that he had.

Anthony Codispoti (1:00:42)
did you loon on for support during that time? What was your support system like?

Craig Bernstein (1:00:47)
Well, you I got to give credit to my mom. know, my mom was such a strong woman and, it just goes back to the way in which you’re raised and the support system that you have. Even my grandparents, you know, played a role. think, I think honestly, the support system of my family and we all sort of banded together, you know, what would

We still call him daddy. What would daddy expect? I think it sort of, it made everybody stay on course. And so I think it was my family from my mom to my grandparents, my brother and my sister, aunts and uncles. You know, we just sort of all lived our lives as expected.

everybody stayed on course and I think that kept everybody sort of next to each other on course at the same time. Almost as if there was a band wrapped around us that nobody can kind of pull in either direction too far. We all sort of, you we’re following on the same trail.

Anthony Codispoti (1:01:59)
Anything you would have done differently looking back?

Craig Bernstein (1:02:05)
You know, it’s amazing, know, life.

I mean, the older you get, and we still have hopefully a long time to still go, but the older you get, you know, there’s so many lessons that you learn and things just fall into place the way they’re supposed to. I was a general manager with Houston’s in Atlanta. A week before my dad got sick, they sat me down.

and asked if I would be willing to go to the Houston’s in Long Island, which was where I started as a server. And they sort of wanted to kind of talk through what that transition looks like when you go back to a restaurant where you sort of started at an hourly level in the capacity of leadership. Chills, crazy. A week later, my dad got sick. He was in New York.

And I never even had to sort of ask for a transfer, take a demotion down as a result of going back home or better, worse or worse, stay in Atlanta and not have those experiences. And then I think this conversation is probably different. So. You know, I don’t know what whatever what you believe in, but it’s amazing how life just continues to.

You just have to trust the process and the process always sort of seems to yield right even when it feels wrong. Every time there’s a problem, you just take a step back, absorb it, and keep moving forward.

Anthony Codispoti (1:03:58)
I’ve just got one more question for you today, Craig. But before I ask it, I want to do a few things. First of all, for everybody listening, best way to get in touch, we touched on earlier actually, founder at docbs.com. So that’s D-O-C-B-S dot com. You can email Craig directly. He reads and responds to all the emails.

And then if you want to find the brand online, DocBeesRestaurant.com, DocBeesRestaurant on Instagram and probably other social handles as well, I’m guessing. Yeah. And as folks listening, as a reminder, if you want to get your employees access to benefits that don’t hurt them or the company financially and actually carries a financial upside for the employer, reach out to addbackbenefits.com. And finally, if you take just a moment to leave us a comment or review on your favorite podcast app,

Craig Bernstein (1:04:29)
Yeah, perfect.

Anthony Codispoti (1:04:48)
we will be forever grateful. So last question for you, Craig, putting all humility aside, how would you characterize your superpower?

Craig Bernstein (1:04:59)
I think it’s perseverance. You know, think the superpower is perseverance. There’s only one.

One direction and that’s go forward. And so far that’s sort of been the guiding light is just continue to take one step in front of the other and. Keep the progress moving.

Anthony Codispoti (1:05:28)
Were you born with that kind of instinct and drive? Was that drilled into you by parents? Something obtained through lots of experiences?

Craig Bernstein (1:05:39)
Yeah, you know, this is definitely a new act for me. know, growing up, I don’t remember being this focused and disciplined. Certainly, I didn’t stray too far, but whether it was in school or athletics, only until I really reached the business world have I been so mission driven for… ⁓

you know, what the future could be. And I think that’s really, ⁓ you know, what continues to drive me forward. So I don’t know, maybe it was all the foundational lessons in the past that got me to today. But if I had this discipline in high school, I don’t know, my grades might have been a little bit better.

Anthony Codispoti (1:06:31)
I can’t think of a better way to end. Craig Bernstein from Doc B’s. I want to be the first to thank you for sharing both your time and your story with us today. I really appreciate it.

Craig Bernstein (1:06:39)
Anthony, this was great. Really appreciate you having me and thank you very much.

Anthony Codispoti (1:06:43)
Folks, that’s a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories podcast. Thanks for learning with us today.