How First Step Staffing Method is Building Dignity Through Employment with Kellie Brownlow

Intro  

Welcome to another edition of inspired stories where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes, how they’ve overcome adversity, and explore current challenges they’re facing.

Anthony Codispoti (14:23.519)
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast, where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired by how they’ve overcome adversity. My name is Anthony Codaspodi and today’s guest is Kelly Brownlow, Chief Mission Officer of First Step Staffing, a nonprofit staffing agency that cultivates a world of untapped talent to provide an always ready and reliable workforce for their local business partners. They believe that a job is much more than a paycheck.

For people facing barriers to employment, it can mean dignity, opportunity, and hope. They help people who have been most disenfranchised from the workforce, including men and women experiencing homelessness, veterans, and returning citizens. From industry-specific experience to personal coaching to worksite transportation for workers, First Step is designed to make a difference, ensuring successful staffing and meaningful employment in the communities they serve.

Kelly has a bachelor’s in communication and political science from Rhode Island College and a master’s in public administration from the University of Georgia. As the chief missions officer, Kelly is responsible for fundraising, community and partner engagement, client support services, and marketing and communications in all existing markets, which include Atlanta, Orlando, Nashville, Dallas, LA, San Bernardino, Philadelphia, Augusta, and Houston.

Now, before we get into all that good stuff, today’s episode is brought to you by my company, Adback Benefits Agency, where we offer very specific and unique employee benefits that are both great for your team and fiscally optimized for your bottom line. One recent client was able to add over $900 per employee per year in extra cashflow by implementing one of our proprietary programs. Results vary for each company and some organizations may not be eligible.

To find out if your company qualifies, contact us today at addbackbenefitsagency.com. Now back to our guest today, the Chief Mission Officer of First Step Staffing, Kelly Brownlow. I appreciate you making the time to share your story today.

Kellie Brownlow (16:25.486)
you

Kellie Brownlow (16:30.7)
Yeah, thanks for having me.

Anthony Codispoti (16:32.447)
So Kelly, before we get into first step staffing, I’d like to hear a little bit about the path that led you to first step.

Kellie Brownlow (16:41.07)
Sure. It’s a long path. I’ll summarize it here. So I moved to Georgia right out of college for grad school, knew that I wanted to go into public administration for a time considered nonprofit, graduated in public administration, spent most of my career in government relations and economic development.

Finally, was that a point first time in my life without a job? I was a political appointee and we lost the election. And so ended up being able to make that dive into nonprofit and that was with Boys and Girls Clubs. And while I was there, one of the things I learned, most people don’t know is most Boys and Girls Clubs are in rural areas, not metropolitan. Most of the kids we serve are in rural parts of the country. And I got really into when you look at the stats and follow like,

what their future could look like. They’re disenfranchised from the workforce, really. I mean, the ones who can leave rural areas do, and they’re not gonna come back. They work in the metro areas they go to. The ones who are there are not introduced to the opportunities around them. Or by the time they are, it’s not appealing to be a farmer, which is really all about science. So bottom line is I got really into advocating for…

introducing kids in rural areas to workforce development at a young age so they could know the opportunities around them. Ended up advocating at the state house in the governor’s office, got appointed to the state workforce board from there, and ultimately a position opened up here at First Step. was approached and it really, really appealed to me that

This organization is doing what I was trying to do on the front end, on the back end, right? Like I was trying to avoid getting these kids to this position. That was what my thought was. And now this is on the other side of that, that they’ve, they’re there. So now what do do? So.

Anthony Codispoti (18:37.962)
Hmm.

Anthony Codispoti (18:51.763)
And so let’s talk about what you do. You know, I’ve talked with a number of staffing agencies. It’s pretty unusual for them to be set up as a nonprofit like yours. And I think as we tell more of your story, it’ll become clear why that structure is in place. So tell me about, in your own words, what First Step does.

Kellie Brownlow (19:11.118)
Sure. So First Step Staffing is a light industrial staffing company, just like anyone that you could name that you’ve probably interviewed before. We have a sales team, just like they do. We fill jobs just like they do. 99 % of our customers for whom we’re placing people in jobs are private for-profit companies. But the significant differences that the individuals we aim to put in jobs are

those target populations you referenced. Homeless, recently homeless, experiencing homeless, at risk of homeless, justice system involved, veterans, yes, that has become a smaller portion. And then what I just described as individuals with chronic barriers, they’re in chronic unemployment, chronic poverty. And so that’s kind of the difference between, that’s the first distinguisher between us and usually like a for-profit staffing company.

The second is we provide transportation to and from work. So that alone is a big sell, but it makes sense, right? If the individuals we’re serving are 70 % homeless, they most likely don’t have a way to get to work. And then we also provide services to support them in retaining that job, right? The first step is getting the job. The next step is keeping the job.

And so, and then I also like to say what distinguishes us from other, when we’re in there, you know, bidding for a proposal, we have a, all of our competitors are pulling from the same pool of employees, right? We’re not, we have a whole different pool of employees, an untapped workforce, willing, able, capable, just locked out. And so.

And this is really a fact. because of that, if one of our customers calls tomorrow today and says, I need 40 people tonight, we can pull them in like that. And we do. And so that distinguishes us that we’re kind of tapping it. You know, I say we’re, we are screening in the individuals that all of our competitors are screening out.

Anthony Codispoti (21:26.483)
Hmm. So let’s talk about the pool, the pool of people that you’re pulling from. So we’re talking about homeless people. Veterans is a small percentage. And then we’re talking about people who were previously incarcerated. So some skeptics would say, yeah, but Kelly, are these really the folks that I want working at my company? Like, you know,

They had some trouble with the law or, you know, they don’t even have a home. Like, how do I know I can rely on them to show up? You know, like, why aren’t these people working anyways? Like, talk me through kind of like, I’m sure you’ve heard this before and what the reality actually is of these folks that you’re helping to place.

Kellie Brownlow (22:14.862)
So the reality is, last year we employed over 7,500 individuals. No one we employ is sentenced to us. Every single person we employ comes to us on their own. And I remind my team all the time, we’re called first step, but we are almost always the last stop because these men and women have tried over and over and over again.

to retain employment traditionally, just like you or I would, just like my kids would, just like my neighbors would. But they are told no over and over and over again. No, because you don’t have an address. No, because of your hygiene right now. No, because you have a criminal record. No, because you haven’t worked in 10 years. Over and over and over again. And typically when they come to us, nevermind their life’s trauma that they’ve all experienced, they’re actively in trauma.

Anthony Codispoti (22:53.504)
Hmm.

Kellie Brownlow (23:10.242)
because they have been told no time and time and time again by employers. So these are individuals that want to work. They are just not allowed. I that’s what I use the phrase often when I’m talking to funders. They are locked out of accessing economic opportunity. And I call them the forgotten population because so often and necessarily,

We are talking about wage gaps, right, between different demographics and what that looks like and how we got here. And that’s an important conversation to have. But whenever we’re having that conversation, I remind people that the individuals we’re serving would love to be part of that gap. They’d love to be part of the gap because that means they have access to economic opportunity and then they can get over that gap. These people aren’t even part of that gap. They’re completely left out.

Anthony Codispoti (23:53.205)
Mm.

Anthony Codispoti (24:06.185)
And they’re left out because of things like you’re saying, they don’t have an address. And so they’re like, Nope, you’re out. Maybe their hygiene currently isn’t to the standards that the employer, Nope, you’re out. And, you know, I hadn’t really thought about it in the terms that you’re describing. They’re an active trauma because they’re trying so hard to take part in the workforce. They want a better way of life.

Kellie Brownlow (24:06.454)
And so.

Anthony Codispoti (24:36.287)
the people that could give them access to it just keep telling them no. And so they’re frustrated and they’re down. And so first step is the last stop for these people. And how do you help to solve those barriers that have prevented them from getting work before?

Kellie Brownlow (24:54.238)
Yeah, so I love, we get this question a lot and I often have to remember, coach my team of, you know, initially we’re not solving for them, we’re overlooking them, right? So you come in, you have two forms of ID, you come into orientation, we’ve got a room of 40 people here right now. We do a panel drug test that day, two forms of ID, and we do do background checks for our own purposes.

But every single individual in here is going to be placed on a job. And then they’ll start within 72 hours and they are going to have transportation to and from work. Okay. So that, that’s the first step, right? Access to economic opportunity. The second step is that discussion about, know, like right here today, they will say, is there anything at all right now that will get in the way of you, A, showing up at work on this assignment and B, succeeding in it?

So some of those things might be, an immediate thing that we can help with is, well, I don’t have a MARTA card to get back home, which is our public transportation here, to get back to the transportation site to get on the bus. Or I literally am living in my car and don’t have a place to take a shower. Those things that might, so those things immediately, we will help working with community partners to get them to access those immediate barriers. Then over time, after our clients have worked 30 days,

successfully worked and shown that they can be there and show up. and several of our markets, they have access to kind of what we say is that next step, right? Like the first step is economic opportunity. The second is economic mobility. and so after that 30 days, we have programs that help support for housing. like, and, and it’s, is a very flexible, it is it’s private foundation funded money. So it’s not a tough.

tethered to government red tape. We have housing financial assistance, have financial literacy classes, and we also connect them to upskill training that we pay for in high demand, higher wage trades so that they can move on to the next place. And that’s kind of the trajectory. then our goal, a lot of times we get the question of how long is your job retention?

Kellie Brownlow (27:20.28)
like what is successful. And for us, after 90 days, we want to see it dip, right? Because that means they’ve been in the workforce, they’re successful, they’ve got their confidence back, their dignity back, their hope back, and they are ready to take that next step into a position that they’re going to have economic and workforce mobility. That said, some of these individuals we work with, I mean, we have…

Several people who’ve served 35 to 45 years in prison, they will not be able to get another job anywhere else because of their background. I mean, we have individuals who worked with us for seven, eight years. They’ll always work with us. And so there’s no limit on how long they can work here, but our goal is to get you in, restore your dignity and confidence and prepare you for what’s next.

Anthony Codispoti (28:09.939)
And the previously incarcerated people, why aren’t they able to, like other folks, be able to move up to another position?

Kellie Brownlow (28:18.734)
So the individuals that we serve at First Step, and when I talk about previously incarcerated, a lot of people go immediately, and frankly, I did too, to individuals in and out of the system. Most of the men and women we’re serving are 20 to 40 years of time served, which are really, and you can imagine what type of felony charges that is.

many employers, that’s just a deal breaker. And I struggle with it so much because they’ve paid 35 years of time. the fact that they can’t, and one of my clients says, all I want to do is earn an honest living. That’s it. I don’t want to be put back in the situation that got me there.

And this particular client came to us, you know, he had worked with another nonprofit, a little bit different than ours, but they didn’t provide transportation. so he basically ended up, I he couldn’t get there. It was like a site that was 30 miles away and in most urban areas outside of New York City, our public transportation system is not as connected. And so basically three days in a was late, even though he got up at 4 a.m. to get to the site for 8.30.

They had to let him go and he tells the story of he was just crying and crying because, I mean, he did not want to go back to that life and went to the community partner and just crying and said, I will do anything. I’ll do anything. You could pay me $5 an hour. I’ll do anything. And they sent him here.

And he’s a great story I can get to later, but that is who we’re seeing.

Anthony Codispoti (30:08.417)
Let’s do it now. I want to hear the rest of this.

Kellie Brownlow (30:12.052)
Okay, so his name is Nick. And so he came here. He worked for us for two years on multiple jobs. mean, he was like, we could put him anywhere. I mean, he just, they loved him on the job sites. He would be a supervisor. He was such a hard worker. He was super motivational for all the other clients that worked with him. And we actually didn’t become aware of how successful Nick was until we came across

He was tagging us on social media, talking about how we changed his life. And so of course we reached out, he’s still working for us. We were able to enroll him. And you know, and I’ll go back a bit too, he says too, he says, know, when he tells a story, he goes, the only adults I knew growing up were prostitutes and drug dealers. That’s his words. And he was in and out of the system until he went in the system for 25 years. And so,

And here’s the great thing. We were able to help Nick with financial assistance. forever, you know, in prison, he learned welding. And so I would say forever to him, you know, Nick, we can get you into an apprentice program because apprenticeships are actually the most background friendly here, at least in Georgia. And I said, we can get you into an apprentice program. You could really turn your life around very quickly. And he kept saying no.

And you know, and that’s okay. We kept on offering it. Literally three months ago, he comes in, he’s an ambassador for us now. And he comes in for an event and he’s wearing all this protective gear. And I’m like, what are you doing? And he goes, I am a welding apprentice. He’s like, you would not believe how much money I’m making right now. And he goes, Kelly, in a year, I’m gonna be making $100,000. And I was like, you know, really Nick, I think we talked about this. And he said,

And this is what’s key. again, I can tell you story over story over story. He said, I wasn’t ready, Kelly. He said that amount of money that you were talking to me about two years ago was overwhelming for me to think about managing. Overwhelming. And he’s like, and you know, you did always position it as like, you’ll be making $19 an hour and then a hundred thousand dollars and they pay you to go through training. And, and he said, it just, I mentally wasn’t there. It was too much.

Kellie Brownlow (32:34.446)
And I love that story because it gets to the kind of making sure we’re meeting clients where they are and understanding they need to do things on their own time. You know, we have another client, Mr. Marshall, who 38 years in prison, 38 years, came to us after six days on the street after being released. And ultimately he really wasn’t ready to work at first. So we went through some things to get him ready. And truth be told, he was in an $11 an hour job.

He hadn’t worked in so long and he loved it. I mean, he did so well. He was there six months and he kept saying, Mr. Marshall, we can put you in upskill training. And he kept saying, no, fast forward a year. No, fast forward 18 months. He’s still at this job site, but he stops in on one of our staff calls. He sees one of my team members and he says, hello in the parking lot. And he said, guess what? I got my own apartment.

It’s a one, he said, you know, Ms. Kelly, I filled out all of the paperwork by myself. He’s like, mostly, mostly all. said, okay, that is so awesome. And so even when we were looking at his apartment where it was and the rent and what he was making, you we tried to convince him again and we said, we’ll pay for all of this. But the bottom line is he said, I’m very, very comfortable where I am. And so to,

Bystanders, you know, it looks like, he’s not making a livable wage. True. He’s in a one bedroom apartment. How’s he going to sustain this? I mean, the truth is for him after 38 years in prison, this is, he’s at a comfort level that he doesn’t want to give up. And who am I, who are we to tell him that’s not where society expects you to be. And so I always say to funders and our partners, like everyone,

of our neighbors should have access to quality jobs, two-bedroom apartments, housing and mortgage. Everyone should have access to that. But they don’t have to seize it if they don’t want to.

Anthony Codispoti (34:39.945)
Hmm. think that’s an important point. I think maybe what you’re touching on here is there’s sort of a natural inclination for us to sort of impose our own values or belief systems on other people. Like, Hey, there’s other opportunities for you. You could be making this instead of this. You could be in a position of authority. You could, you know, have a two bedroom instead of a one bedroom. And he keeps telling you, Hey, I’m good. Like this fits me. Like, right. And so

Yeah, you probably have to check yourself a little bit and say, okay, we make the opportunities available, but we don’t have to push it on.

Kellie Brownlow (35:17.004)
Right, right. There was one of my team members came in one day and he said, Hey, we’ve got this client here. He’s living in his car, but he’s saying what he wants for a support service is he wants to get his GED. And I’m saying, well, wouldn’t that be more comfortable if we helped get you out of your car? And he’s saying, no. goes, so what do I do? I said, help him get his GED because that’s his goal. Right. And I said, so think about that. That’s his goal. We help them reach that step. Eventually he’s going to get to the place that says, okay, now I want to get out of my car.

and go somewhere else. But for us to sit here and say, great goal, but we got to get you out of your car first, is kind of the opposite of what we’re trying to do here because our ultimate goal is making sure as many people as possible we serve can achieve self-sufficiency, but they’re only going to achieve that following their own path.

Anthony Codispoti (36:06.004)
You mentioned with this individual that when he first got out, he wasn’t quite ready to work. So you had to do some things to get him ready for work. What are those things?

Kellie Brownlow (36:17.39)
so one of them is actually, so he was physically, not, not in a good spot. Like he fit like physically, I, you he didn’t really, wasn’t able to take care himself in prison and then came out and slept on the street for six weeks and I mean, for six days. And so, we have a service that we offer where we can help clients get connected to disability benefits.

that kind of make sure they have some sort of income to access basic needs until they’re ready to work. So we did that for him, got him connected to that. We also found him some transitional housing so that he could be housed and live in a situation where he’s not in prison, not by himself and like learning just some basic society. I think about this, guy had never, I phoned to him. It’s a computer, I mean, all of this, right? So we had to get

integrated back into society a little bit. And he did. And it was, I mean, it only took about six months. It was, it was a, was so motivated that it only took about, you know, it didn’t take that long, but, but it’s, it’s, that’s the one thing we have to do is assess whether or not they are ready. And often they themselves will tell us, you know, the fact that he had been in prison 30 years, couldn’t use some basic, we didn’t, we never want to put someone on a job that won’t succeed.

Right. And that also leads back to the type of jobs we have. Our jobs are very strategically entry level jobs that anyone can get into and succeed without any advanced training. Right. Cause the last thing, as I said, this is all about dignity and confidence and opportunity. know, Nick or Mr. Marshall or any one of these guys and women, men and women, we don’t

want to send them somewhere after they’ve been told no over and over over over over again and then they get there the first night and can’t do it.

Anthony Codispoti (38:14.382)
You want to put them in a position where they can be successful.

Kellie Brownlow (38:14.655)
you know that

Absolutely.

Anthony Codispoti (38:19.007)
Yeah. These extra services that you’re providing, transportation, and through some community partners, you’re able to help them get access to showers so they can get themselves cleaned up. Maybe some housing solutions. I think we’re starting to get into why specifically this is set up as a nonprofit. Because to be able to offer all those services as a for-profit company,

your rates would have to be so high to the employers that you’re serving that the math just isn’t going to work. Am I correct here? part of it is the employers that you’re helping, obviously they’re paying a fee for these employees. And then you’re also doing fundraising and bringing in funds so that you can provide all of these extra support services.

Kellie Brownlow (38:55.97)
That is exactly true.

Kellie Brownlow (39:09.614)
Yes, that’s exactly right. So we are a 501c3. 88 % of our budget is covered by earned revenue. That’s from our customers, right? So that covers all of our client wages, the administrative stuff that goes along with that, the sales people that are getting the accounts. So that’s 88%. That covers all of the basics of like a basic industrial staffing company.

The other 12 % is raised from foundations. Most of our funding is local in the areas that we’re operating. And so, and that does cover all of these extras. That covers the transportation, that covers the being able to pay the cost of upscale training. It covers our housing financial assistance program, our emergency fund. All of that is funded by philanthropy.

particularly love how we’ve designed our program because it’s private philanthropy, we’re able to provide immediate access to whatever those individuals need because it’s private philanthropy. there’s nothing, I say like, we don’t have to prove how homeless someone is, how poor they are, we don’t have to prove any of that. We can just help them.

Anthony Codispoti (40:27.807)
Because it’s not government funds is what you’re saying. Because they’re private funds and not government funds, you don’t have to go through the red tape. Sorry, go ahead.

Kellie Brownlow (40:34.25)
Yes, yes. We have a limited number of government partnerships, but what we found when it comes to housing and training is it takes so long to access the funds and fill out the paperwork. And mind you, and I’m on the workforce board here, so I, you know, I’m not, it’s not anti-government. It’s just, it’s just, it’s the processes that are there. It takes so long that by the time we’re able to get it all done, the person’s either gone.

or no longer interested, has spiraled down even worse. Because if you’re living on the street tonight and I can’t help you some way somehow, then, and then I’m telling you, get up and go to work tomorrow at eight, hope you have nothing to plug your phone into, none of that. A lot of these individuals don’t have phones. I an anecdotal story is we had a client come in a couple of months ago and he said,

lost my pay card and so I’ll need to call and get a new pay card. So I said, okay, well here, she can help you get that done. And she said, well, I already gave him the paper and he literally was holding a phone in his hand. It was an Android. And she says, well, the phone number is right there. And he goes, I don’t have a phone. Can I use yours? And so we show him like how to use his phone. We let him use ours, obviously, but…

He had been walking around this phone that we helped connect him to for days and did not know. He literally took transportation to come to our office to see if he could use our phone.

Anthony Codispoti (41:57.023)
He didn’t know what it was.

Anthony Codispoti (42:06.859)
So what, I’m curious, what did he think that he had?

Kellie Brownlow (42:07.5)
Eh.

Kellie Brownlow (42:10.796)
He didn’t know how to use it. He could not understand how it was an actual phone, right? It’s a screen. You have to make the numbers. My dad’s just got his cell phone like 10 years ago. I mean, not even like five years ago and it’s hard to, yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (42:14.505)
Okay.

Anthony Codispoti (42:22.657)
Fair enough. mean, if you’ve been incarcerated for 30 years, if you’ve been unplugged from everything that’s going on outside, you come out and there’s a whole bunch of things that you don’t recognize or understand how they work. The things that we take for granted.

Kellie Brownlow (42:37.59)
Yeah. Yeah. And when, right. And while we were patiently explaining him how to use it, he was clearly getting very anxious. So we were like, you know what, go ahead, use our phone first and you can call, let’s get your pay card straightened out. And, you know, then we’ll walk you through literally just how to put the, put the phone up and dial.

Anthony Codispoti (43:00.191)
And so you mentioned something just there, which is interesting, a pay card. So talk a little bit about that, because I’m guessing a lot of these folks don’t have traditional bank accounts for direct deposit.

Kellie Brownlow (43:12.578)
That is very, true. At one point it was 80%. We’ve helped improve that a little bit, but yes, 80 % on average do not have a bank account. We are always very upfront about the importance of getting a bank account and that the pay card is not an ideal situation because there’s a fee for that.

Anthony Codispoti (43:38.945)
Mmm.

Kellie Brownlow (43:41.006)
Over the past couple of years, if we’ve kind of ramped up our fundraising to provide more services, we have partnered with multiple financial institutions to offer our clients financial literacy and educating the financial institutions on. mean, this was four years ago. We met with one of the institutions and they’re like, no, no, no, look, we’ve got this great accessible for everybody, you know, whatever. I read through it and the fee at the end, if you go for a zero balance is $10.

And I said, you know, for you and I, that’s nothing. I said, but for someone who is going to get paid and then probably go to negative $10 the day after, that’s a huge thing. And so, and what’s been great is that we’ve had so much positive feedback and financial institutions hearing us and doing what they can and working with our clients. And the other part was, you know, for years they’ve been doing

financial literacy and financial workshops to help. And what I would say primarily targeted toward the working poor, which is a much different group than who we’re dealing with. And I would explain to them, know, like you’re going through this and you’re like, ultimately we’re going to get you to how you can put yourself in position to attain a mortgage. And I said, that is frightening for our people, frightening. So we’ve got to come down to the very basics and you know, we’ve gone,

So it’s basically, we do one whole thing about the importance of a bank account. One whole set, like, whereas that would be their traditional audience is walking in there with a bank account, right? This is like the importance of a bank account, then some budgeting. And then, I mean, we do one like advanced one that we’ve done in the past where it was how to save for a car.

But we’ve really had to work with our partners on remembering who we’re talking to.

Anthony Codispoti (45:40.566)
That’s powerful story.

Kellie Brownlow (45:40.672)
And so the good news is we’ve actually, the last numbers we’ve checked, 50 % of our clients had direct deposit. And that was just a couple of months ago. So that’s.

Anthony Codispoti (45:49.749)
Wait, wait, say that again. How many? 50 % now have direct deposit. So the number that you mentioned before was 80 % and previously did not have a bank account. And you shifted that to now it’s only 50%.

Kellie Brownlow (45:52.302)
50. Yep.

80.

Kellie Brownlow (46:04.876)
Yes. And that’s been over four years of working and figuring it out and how do we normally bring this in? But yeah, absolutely. so we, and we pull these numbers now because some of these financial institutions have funded us. So that’s like one of the deliverables. And again, none of them, and this is the other thing, we will not go sole source with any financial institution. Cause what we’ve explained throughout is that our clients need a choice.

just like everybody else, right? So we have four or five different partners that come in. Some fund us through their foundation, others don’t, but we have four or five different ones that come in and do their workshops and expose our clients. And they’re not, there is some law or something that they’re actually not allowed to promote their, open a bank account with them. But we’ve done, and here’s the other thing that we’ve done. We had one thing where it was like, in trying to figure out why it was so hard for clients to open a bank account, well, was like getting to the bank.

So interestingly enough, and this is like an eye opener for us and our partners, we did a day where a couple of banks came in and we were like doing the, they can open an account right there on the spot. So many people got denied.

The bank, it was like looking back and thinking, like, so they’re sitting there doing it, trying to do it, and they got denied for whatever reason. back rent, you know, credit card debt, whatever that might be. But that was also eye opening on, on, wow. Okay. So we’ve been talking about all this. They’re doing the right thing again, saying, let’s open a bank account. And this is what happens with, with housing. You know, we’re, we’re going to provide housing financial assistance.

And I mean, and we did this budget and we raised the money for it. And I actually even used for our estimates, like regular rent that I would maybe be paying. What I didn’t factor in is how much more you have to pay for an application if you have a criminal background, how much more upfront you have to pay if you have a criminal background. So, know, yeah, I’ll let you, I will take you with your felony, but that’s not, that’s usually not the case.

Kellie Brownlow (48:18.52)
hard to find landlords that will do that. And then when they do, well, instead of the first months and last month, we need the first months, the second months, and the last month.

Anthony Codispoti (48:30.539)
Wow.

Kellie Brownlow (48:32.002)
So you tell me you asked $4,500 in this situation to get, you know, to move into housing. And so it’s like, I’m learning as we’ve added these programs, barrier after barrier after barrier, even the upskill. When we were first doing it, before we had raised the full amount of money, it was like we would do the upskill, but then they’ve got to do the work to get the job after. Well, we raised enough money to have someone full-time do it. And so, you know, part of that was like, okay,

We are about self-sufficiency, but let’s help connect them to where there’s some openings and stuff. And then what we learned is A, well, great, they have the upskill, but won’t take that background. Or B, you you get to that level of employment and you have to have a high school degree.

High school diploma, I guess is what you’d say. And so we’ve had to add that in of slowly getting our folks through their GED. But it’s learning as we’ve added these services kind of to your first step to actually help them overcome the barriers, not just overlook them. We’ve learned how much harder it is than we would have imagined because of what they did 20, 30, 35 years ago.

Anthony Codispoti (49:44.929)
And so you are revising your process because what you would prefer not to have happen is they get to the point of saying, okay, I’m ready. Let me apply for a bank account and then have somebody tell them, sorry, you’re locked out again. So now you understand some of those interim steps that need to be taken to put them in a better position to qualify for those things. You’re giving them a better chance to qualify. And so we’ve gone from 80 % of people did not have a bank account now to 50 % of people.

Kellie Brownlow (50:06.082)
Yes.

Anthony Codispoti (50:13.599)
have direct deposit that’s an insane increase in a few years. Do you have any other stats? Like impress me some more with the work that you’re doing.

Kellie Brownlow (50:25.814)
I guess so here’s, is, I would say this stat that I always think is impressive because of the fact that, of who we’re employing, right? Right. Who we’re employing otherwise would be working nowhere. No one would allow them. this year, individuals where, where about 74 % of our clients are, are experiencing homeless. They qualify in the homeless.

25 20 to 25 also or also also or have some sort of criminal background This year they will earn fifty one point nine million dollars in wages Fifty one point nine combined fifty one point nine. They will be paid fifty one point nine million dollars in wages

These are individuals that are crying on the bus because no one will hire them. They can’t get anywhere. mean, we’ve often, I’ll see people crying in the hallway and I’m like, are you okay? And like, they gave me a job. I can’t believe it. mean, these, back to that first question, these are people who want to work so bad. They cry when they have it. And it’s interesting, even for our housing program, one of the criteria, there’s two criteria. You have to open a account.

You have to, and after the first month, you have to pay a little bit on your own as you get through, you know, and you have to work. You stop working. You’re.

Anthony Codispoti (51:56.129)
Sorry, pay a little bit on your own to what?

Kellie Brownlow (51:59.64)
So the way it’s designed is the first month we pay 100%. So our goal is to get them, if they’re homeless, into housing, if they’re facing eviction, out of that hole.

Anthony Codispoti (52:10.291)
You pay 100 % of their housing solution in the first month is what you’re saying. Okay.

Kellie Brownlow (52:13.046)
the first month and then it goes down to 80, 60, 40, 20, you know, and they have to produce their portion of that. And actually if they leave our jobs, get a higher paying job, that’s okay. They can stay in the program. They just have to show proof of employment and they have to show us their proof of their payment. pay the landlords directly. And so I say all that to say, when we sat down and talked to them, some of the

participants like, well, what do you think about the criteria that you have to work? I mean, I almost defended them and they were like, we want to work. why that, why would we be mad at that criteria that we have to work? They’re like, we’re here because we want to work. And again, that just kind of gets back to your first piece. It’s just, it’s so hard to dig yourself out is what we’re realizing. Like, so not only do these individuals want to work,

Anthony Codispoti (52:59.989)
Yeah.

Kellie Brownlow (53:12.174)
It’s as hard as another perfect client came in, needed, basically he didn’t show up at work. We were kind of surprised. He comes in, says, well, I didn’t show up. My cell phone got shut off. I wasn’t able to pay the bill. This was a Monday. So we say, well, we’ll pay the bill. It was $40. So it wasn’t like he hadn’t paid in months. It was literally $40. And, you know, I learned a lot from this situation myself. So we paid his bill. He goes back to work.

By Thursday, we learned he had stole someone else’s cell phone on the job site. And my team called me, I was traveling and they were like, devastated, like you just paid his bill. I said, yep, but you know what? he didn’t, they go, why would he steal a cell phone? I said, to buy food, to sell it. And I said, if he didn’t have $40 on Monday to pay a cell phone bill. And I was literally.

Anthony Codispoti (54:05.301)
He doesn’t have money to eat that week until he gets paid at the end of the week.

Kellie Brownlow (54:07.838)
Nothing. And I was literally kicking myself. We actually created an entirely new program out of this because I was, you know, I was what I just, again, not meeting him where he was, right? Well, pay your cell phone bill and it’s going to be all great. And think about that. Forty dollars can spiral someone. Forty dollars from being in a place of somewhat stability to all the way down. mean,

Stealing is a thing. We say it first step where we are, you get a first step, first chance, second chance, third chance. We have people who will walk off the job site. They don’t understand. These are all these things that will coach you and put you back, but the guy filed criminal charges. so it really like, say all of that leads back to my stat of,

Anthony Codispoti (54:54.849)
Mm.

Kellie Brownlow (55:05.344)
This is who we’re helping and this year they’re going to earn $51.9 million.

Anthony Codispoti (55:09.323)
So talk about the new program that you birthed out of this unfortunate situation.

Kellie Brownlow (55:17.268)
It’s literally called an emergency fund where if clients come to us with some sort of situation of like, it might be food. Sometimes they’ll say, can you get us food? know, so basically we’re raising money to have grocery cards on hand, transportation cards on hand, Walmart cards on hand so that in this situation, what I should have and now can do is here’s your cell phone.

Here’s a hundred bucks for Publix or whatever grocery store is nearby. Here’s Walmart in case you need any of this. And here’s seven Marta cards to get you through the week, right? And then what else do you need? Right? That little bit. And those are just basic needs that I just said. So, you know, those are basic things that every single day I have and I don’t realize how important they are, you know? And so, and I, you know, I kick myself every time just thinking if I had, I don’t know why I didn’t think of that.

You know, and again, it’s not, go ahead, go.

Anthony Codispoti (56:19.497)
Yeah, let me tell you what went through my head as you were telling that story. And I’m not proud of it. But you’re telling the story. This guy came in and I have money to pay my cell phone bill. My cell phone got shut off. So you help him out. I’m like, okay, great guys back on track. And then you told me, yeah, and he stole somebody’s cell phone at work in my mind immediately went to what a degenerate. Like clearly is somebody you’re going out of your way to help. And what does he do? Never occurred to me.

you know, 20 seconds later you’re telling me the rest of the story. Of course he had to steal something. He had no, if he didn’t have money for his cell phone, he doesn’t have money for food. Who among us, if they were in that same situation, no money, no food for a week, because he’s not getting paid until the end of the week, who wouldn’t make the same decision? Am I going to starve for the week? Like, I’m going to roll the dice. I’m going to steal somebody’s phone. I’m going to do something to put some food in my belly. And so, if I’m thinking that,

Kellie Brownlow (57:10.638)
Absolutely.

Kellie Brownlow (57:17.496)
Yeah, yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (57:19.359)
And I’m here loving your story and supporting everything that you’re doing. This kind of thought process is happening repeatedly in our society because nobody’s sort of stopping to think about the life circumstance that sort of led them to make that decision. And so that’s why I thank you for sharing some of these anecdotes because they’re really powerful in helping to make that point. You’ve got data.

Kellie Brownlow (57:43.95)
Yep.

Anthony Codispoti (57:45.481)
And you’ve shared some really good data so far. I wonder if you have any data on the employer side of things, the folks that you’re helping to place employees with. How is this affecting them? How is it impacting?

Kellie Brownlow (58:02.286)
So it’s interesting. We have some employers, and I’ll say it’s a minimal, that you can tell they chose us, they love our mission, they love what we’re doing, and they will speak out with you about it. A lot of them, and I get this from the business sense, right? Because in very few places, we’re the only staffing company on site. Everyone we work with, every single one of our customers,

where we are in their organization, staffing is their human resources. So obviously no one puts all their eggs in one basket. There’s five or six of us on the floor. And a lot of times, truthfully, what they value about first step staffing, but this also goes to prove something, is that A, like I said, we have this untapped workforce, a pipeline that we’re constantly building every day, that we can put people to work very fast. We also can make sure they get there.

That’s what committing to them getting there. And then guess what? They’re excellent workers. There is no difference between us and the other staff people on the floor. So I don’t mean that to say they don’t agree with our mission, it, you know, they, from their business sense, they’re looking for making sure you get the job done, you get it done well, you get it done on time and you show up. And that’s what our clients do. You know, and so, and again, we can fill jobs faster because the other five on the lot.

are picking from the same pool. We’re not even in that pool. We got a whole different pool for you. then there are some customers who love, love, love what we’re doing. we’ve also worked with customers who it’s interesting. Their business really wants to get into second chance hiring, but they don’t want to take the risk. And our model is we hold all that risk, right? Because they work for us. So.

Anthony Codispoti (59:49.857)
Mmm.

Kellie Brownlow (59:54.506)
this company could talk about that they were doing it through us, but they don’t hold any of the risk. all the insurance is on us. We pay all the wages. Everything is on first step staffing. And so we have worked with customers who have kind of said, I want to dip into it, but I want to take that risk. And it’s interesting. I remember arguing with my neighbor one night about this because he kept saying, are you sorry? would think, do you ever get pushback of like, well, what are they going to do? And I said, listen,

These aren’t white collar crime people. They weren’t embezzling from their companies. you know, I’m like, these are individuals. I said, you know, on one hand, you could look at that as the opposite, but these are individuals who probably wouldn’t even know how to do any of that. And they’ve done nothing wrong for the last more than quarter of a century.

Right? mean, they’re released, which means in my eye that, you know, that you have to just like it’s like, you know, we give it’s the you’re innocent until proven guilty. Well, shouldn’t you be considered reformed until you’re not? When you leave the prison system and it’s not like that.

Anthony Codispoti (01:01:01.013)
Yeah, I would guess that recidivism rates are much higher when folks can’t find gainful employment, right? Like you said, kind of, for some of these folks, it puts them in a similar situation that maybe got them into some of that trouble in the first place.

Kellie Brownlow (01:01:08.992)
apps apps

Kellie Brownlow (01:01:16.204)
That is, I mean, and you know, that goes back to what Nick said when he tells a story. says, that’s all I knew, you know, and he goes in all, I just wanted someone to let me earn an honest living. You know, we’ve actually, it’s interesting because we, I actually had a formerly incarcerated individual with me talking to a funder at a funder meeting because as often as we can, and that’s why we have these ambassadors, you know, while I am so passionate about what we do, I don’t tell the story near as good.

as the clients who have been impacted by it, right? So we were in this funder meeting and the funder was pointing out that, really pushing hard back on our wages, which I have another good step for you on that in a minute, but really pushing hard back on our wages and that’s not a livable wage. you know, we give our same, well, it’s strategically entry level, you know, and the, the, the client goes, well, if I, you know, if I can interject, I’ve been out of prison two years, I served 22 years.

in prison and he said, I got paid five cents a day to work eight hours. And he’s like, the fact that they will give me a chance to work, goes, I probably would have taken $5 an hour. You know, at this, he said, you I was being paid five cents a day. And so, and I didn’t even know, it was an interesting step for me, because I didn’t know that, but it was just an interesting perspective. And it’s, you know, like in what I always say,

you know, if there is pushback on our wages, it’s one step at a time, right? We’re called the first step for a reason. We’re not the 15th step. We are the first step. And then there’s more to go, right, that you need to take. And the other thing about wages is interesting. So the pandemic for us was really interesting because we didn’t close because our customers that we serve were considered basically essential services. And so

Our average hourly wage went up 50%. So it was $10 in 2019 and now it’s 15.80. And that’s for like basic, these are, that’s the lowest, you know, when you’re walking in. But a lot of that was because, you know, remember when nobody could get anyone to work? Well, we could. And so, but we were able to leverage that for our clients because we could put them to work.

Kellie Brownlow (01:03:42.503)
And we did have them available. And so that’s a great stat for us as well.

Anthony Codispoti (01:03:47.467)
You know, as I’m hearing your story, Kelly, something’s occurring to me that, and you sort of shared this through some of the anecdotes, is that the population that you’re serving, your clients, as I love that you call them, these are people who are so excited to work because in so many cases, so much has been taken away from them for so long. You know,

I’m trying to figure out how to put this into words. Like I love to work. I love my job. I love being productive. I think I would love and appreciate that on a whole other level if I hadn’t had the ability to do that in a really long time. And I think that’s what I’m hearing you describe from these folks is that they’re even more excited than the average person to have the opportunity to work because they’ve gone without it for years.

Kellie Brownlow (01:04:40.194)
Yep. And then when they tried, when they came out reformed and said, I want to do this, I want a better life for myself, they were told, no, no, no, no, you made a mistake. You’re sorry. You can never work. You made a mistake. so, I mean, so think about it. Like it’s even more when they get here, is, I say, you know, they’re desperate and then they leave so grateful. And what’s interesting is when we talk about

the dignity and the opportunity. is another interesting story because, so as we’ve evolved and literally when we were founded, it really was like, how do we help these individuals meet their basic needs? It’s individuals that are homeless and then why are they homeless? Because once their housing subsidy runs out or gets decreased or whatever, they don’t have a job to support that increased expense. And it’s not that they don’t want a job, it’s that no one will hire them.

they, so when I first started, it was like, well, you know, gosh, we have to talk about how important a paycheck is, regardless of how much you’re paying, they need to eat. You know, the paycheck is the most important part of this. Like what would they do without a paycheck? So, you know, like I said, I think it’s always best for clients to tell the story. So we went out and did some quick clips about what does a job mean to you? Right. And I was completely expecting like a paycheck. I need to eat a paycheck. had to pay for my kid’s childcare paycheck.

not one client set a paycheck. And it was so beautiful. And again, it was one of those things of, gosh, why, of course, of course, but they said confidence, dignity, security, a way to take my life into my own hands, my own plan, agency, decision-making. I mean, all of these things that it was like, of course, purpose. I mean, yeah, and it’s interesting. And now we actually regularly ask that question and we have a bunch of montage videos on it. But again, I,

Anthony Codispoti (01:06:24.737)
purpose.

Kellie Brownlow (01:06:34.964)
I went in with this perspective of, what would I be thinking if I was in that situation? Right? Cause you don’t know, cause you’re not. And I never will be, hopefully. I mean, at this point, I don’t think I’ll be serving a lot of time in prison. And I thought, well, they were going to be like, well, I need to buy food. But that, no. And so we ended up changing our whole mission and everything on that, because that’s really, it was interesting cause we started out like,

Anthony Codispoti (01:06:54.111)
Hmm, that’s surprising.

Kellie Brownlow (01:07:02.208)
Our mission, and I do believe it said, you we’ve been in business since 2007, you know, to end homelessness through work. And then I realized like, well, you know, we’re not really ending homelessness, right? Like in general, societally, we’re not ending homelessness. But really our mission is to restore dignity through employment so that these individuals can achieve self-sufficiency on their own.

Anthony Codispoti (01:07:30.689)
What I love about your story and the name of the organization First Step is that it’s clear that this is a hand up, right? Not just a handout, which I’ll say there are lots of people who deserve a handout, know, that need it. You know, they’re in a position in life where they need a little help up. And that’s what you’re doing here. And so I think it’s terrific. What are the growth goals from here? Like, what’s it take for you to set up in another geography?

Kellie Brownlow (01:08:02.51)
Interesting you’d ask about the growth goals. We are actually having a retreat offsite with our entire board and our leadership team tomorrow to talk about that. But in general, what it takes for us to go to another geography is, you there’s like, you could look, guess, three legged, whatever. The first one is the light industrial staffing industry, right? Like how saturated it is and what is gonna be.

our chances of being successful there and gaining some market share. Because without a job, the job is, we are an employment agency, period. That’s what we do. So that’s obviously the most important. The second is that we have the populations that we’re trying to serve, right? So that those populations have to be there. And the third is the community partnerships, right? A,

We need to be additive to the solution in that community, not duplicative. So we need other community partners to look at us as a complement to the situation and challenge solving and all of that, not like somebody else is already doing it. And then also we need to build up that trust and credibility with all the other community-based organizations and nonprofits, because that is where 95 % of our clients come from.

And then on the flip side, we refer our clients back out to them. So we’re all serving the same target population, but we refer our clients out for whether they need housing or hygiene assistance or food assistance or whatever that might be. And so those three things have to exist in advance for us to be able to consider launching. And we actually have a scorecard that we use that was developed by a Farber fellow that we had.

But it is those three things are the most important with obviously. And the other I should say too is we do also have to consider like labor laws and stuff like that. You there are some states where it’s the workers comp is going to be much more expensive and that we have to look at how we’re going to balance that out or employer benefits, whatever that looks like. And so, but those are generally the three things that we will look at in advance.

Anthony Codispoti (01:10:19.357)
Any locations that are on the horizon that you can give voice to?

Kellie Brownlow (01:10:24.424)
you know, I, I will not today only because that’s kind of what we’re doing with our board tomorrow. We’re kind of, we are bored has we could, used to be three different boards in three different locations and we consolidated last year into one whole financial agency. And so this is the first time we’re meeting for them to kind of direct what that looks like. And, and, you know, we’re going to have a two day discussion about what is growth, right? Is growth more branches is growth.

more clients where we are? Is growth more revenue? What does growth look like for us? And, you know, it could be a combination of all three, but kind of having that facilitated two-day discussion about what does that look like for first step. I can tell you that we get calls on a daily basis and there are probably, I mean, just in the past week, I saw four come through and two on our website, which was interesting about, you know, would we consider opening locations?

Anthony Codispoti (01:11:24.554)
And those were coming from the municipalities or from employers or.

Kellie Brownlow (01:11:30.222)
We had couple front well employers we are sometimes asked to and and honestly with our some of our growth has been through an existing and like Nashville We opened with an employer and Dallas that was an employer that we have a contract with they have a national contract They asked us to go into that community. We checked out all of the other things, but we also went in with a contract, you know and and so the the requests come in from community partners

potential employers, local government. mean, in Orlando, it was the local government that recruited us in and asked us to come and open there and help. And they’re a community that is really, really committed to solving for homelessness in Orlando. And so they thought that missing piece was employment and brought us in. They’ve been a great community to work with. it’s different everywhere you go, but…

a portion of all of those elements have to be there.

Anthony Codispoti (01:12:28.447)
Yeah. And you know, with a still a really tight labor market, we’re recording in October of 2024. You know, like you’ve mentioned several times, you have access to a different pool of folks. And so especially when companies are having trouble filling those positions through other staffing methods, you guys come in and say, Hey, we got a whole bunch of people that you haven’t talked to yet. What kind of it? Go ahead, go ahead, Kelly.

Kellie Brownlow (01:12:50.19)
Yeah, absolutely. a lot of people, go ahead. A lot of people will point out like, the unemployment number is so low. And we’re like, yeah, it is. And that’s great. But the ones who are still unemployed are the ones we’re serving. That 3 % or 3.9 % that’s so low and keeps on decreasing, well, it’s the individuals we’re serving that are falling in that number.

Anthony Codispoti (01:13:14.099)
Yeah. Who are, how would you describe the employers that are the best fit for your program?

Kellie Brownlow (01:13:23.246)
Obviously the employers that really embrace the mission. Because like I said, mean, we are dealing with people who haven’t worked in 10 years, who don’t know what it’s like to work in a modern society. And so, like I said, they are going to make mistakes, right? And when I say mistakes, you know, they’ll walk off the shift at three because the supervisor said something they didn’t like, you know, so they just leave. And like, have to explain, can’t just leave, you can call us the next day and say, this is not a good fit.

Or, know, we get it, everyone has kid problems, whenever you can’t be at work, but you got to tell us in advance, we know. so employers who understand that and are okay with us either coaching and reassigning that person or letting us put someone else in it. And most of our employers are like that, but understanding, I mean, whether or not they chose us because of the mission, it’s understanding that the populations that we’re helping, like,

Because I think if you don’t, yeah, the margins can get tight and you can get frustrated with that. So those would be the best employers that understand that. And then also, I mean, that a lot of our employers love the other benefits we provide because even though there’s five other staffing agents in there, they’re all doing the same job, earning the same income.

Right? So there, there’s gotta be a challenge if that’s the income you’re earning and the other benefits that we, the support services we provide to help our team, our clients keep that job. I think they, that has become something increasingly valuable for some of them. In fact, one of our customers came and sat in on a training a couple of weeks ago, just to like see how, what we were doing and how we were talking about it with the clients.

Anthony Codispoti (01:15:12.242)
Kelly I just have one more question for you before I ask it I want to do two things for those listening today If you like today’s content, please hit the like share subscribe button on your favorite podcast app I also want to let people know the best way to get in touch with you Kelly. What would that be?

Kellie Brownlow (01:15:27.374)
Sure, would be via email is usually the best and I can spell it out for you. It’s Kelly, K-E-L-L-I-E, B as in boy, at firststepstaffing.com.

Anthony Codispoti (01:15:41.697)
Terrific. Last question for you. I’d like to hear about a particular challenge, whether personal or professional that you’ve overcome and some lessons that you learned coming through the other side of that.

Kellie Brownlow (01:15:54.926)
I think I’ll go with a personal one because it relates to a lot of what I was just talking about. So my dad was a heroin addict when I was growing up and he served a total of 16 years in prison for Robin and Baker. This is when I was all growing up and it was interesting because I kind of made no one in my house had had a college degree so it was kind of hard for my mom. You know, she didn’t have a college degree at the time.

He was gone, there were three kids. And so I made it my mission that I will never have to have anybody support me. was 16 years old when I made that mission, but truth be told, like I’ve done pretty well in charting my path of always knowing, and this is what I got from it, always knowing where I wanna be in the next five years.

And so, you I knew I wanted to get educated enough that would put me in a position where I would always have a job. And I used to say, you know, in case my husband becomes a drug addict and comes to jail, you know, things like that, like in case that happens. And then that has helped me, you know, coming out of that personal growth moment professionally, always assessing where I want to be in that next five years has been so very helpful.

And sometimes it was in that same company in just a different role or maybe in a leadership position, you know, twice I was like, I think in the next five years I want to venture out, you know, I think I want to, and so it helps you, you really are subtly achieving that goal every day when you know where you’re headed. And so I think that, you know, I started to think about that by force, or like by running,

away from something and thinking, how do I not get put into that situation myself? But it ended up being, you know, wisely something that I personally use that has helped me for the past 25 years of my career.

Anthony Codispoti (01:18:03.871)
Well, and I would assume that the experience that you had growing up, your father, you know, struggling with drugs and being in prison for so long.

gives you a different sense of compassion for the people that you’re helping because you lived through that.

Kellie Brownlow (01:18:19.022)
One hunt, yeah. And I lived through, it’s interesting, because now it’s years later, and this was in the 80s and it’s happened, but I remember that when he came out, he could not get a job anywhere, because he robbed a bank. It was a felony. And so at one point we were like, because he was getting so depressed at home, and my mom worked and whatever, and we were kind of getting to the adult age. And so it’s like, well, just go volunteer at the zoo. And do know who could not volunteer at the zoo?

because he had a felony conviction. I mean, really? And that did always stick with me. And it’s interesting. Like I used to say it for, when I was younger and going through it, was like, this is what I’m gonna do. I’m gonna start a house where, you know, limited people can come in, but then they can, cause I kind of, didn’t, it didn’t fully consume the not being able to get a job until this. And it is absolutely, it did appeal to me when talking to an interviewer for this role about who they’re helping and how they’re doing it.

And it’s even more interesting seeing 35, 40 years later, the same challenges.

Anthony Codispoti (01:19:26.273)
Well, Kelly, I want to be the first one to thank you for sharing both your time and your story with us today. I really appreciate it and I appreciate your mission.

Kellie Brownlow (01:19:34.626)
Thank you so much for having me. It was a great time. I enjoyed talking with you.

Anthony Codispoti (01:19:37.525)
Folks, that’s a wrap on another, uh-huh, likewise. That’s a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories podcast. Thanks for learning with us today.