From Trades to C-Suite: Mathew King’s Inspiring Career Journey | Financial & Tax Series

Intro  

Welcome to another edition of inspired stories where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes, how they’ve overcome adversity, and explore current challenges they’re facing.

Anthony Codispoti (02:24.365)
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast, where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired by how they’ve overcome adversity. My name is Anthony Codaspoti, and today’s guest is Matthew King, founder of King Strategy, a fractional CFO agency that serves both for -profit and non -profit entities.

Matthew has over 25 years of experience across several industries, including services, manufacturing, construction, real estate management, social services, mortgage lending, and healthcare. Before we get into the good stuff, today’s episode is brought to you by my company, Adback Benefits Agency, where we offer very specific and unique employee benefits that are both great for your team and fiscally optimized for your bottom line. One recent client was able to add over $900 per employee per year to their bottom line.

by implementing one of our proprietary programs. Results vary for each company and some organizations may not be eligible. To find out if your company qualifies, contact us today at addbackbenefitsagency .com. Now, back to our guest today, the founder of King Strategy, Matthew, I appreciate you making the time to share your story today.

Mathew King (03:36.771)
Thank you. Yes, great to be here.

Anthony Codispoti (03:38.54)
So Matthew, tell us simply in your own words, what does King’s Strategy do?

Mathew King (03:44.003)
It’s fractional CFO. So it’s anything you think a CFO would do at a fractional level. So you’ve got companies who they need a high level oversight. They may have a controller or a finance manager, but they don’t have the budget for a full -time CFO. Or if they hire a CFO and they don’t pay enough, they’re not going to get the right result. And so there’s a…

certain size that fits for nonprofits and then there’s a certain size that fits for for -profits before you do want to hire a full -time, you know, higher level resource and so that’s where I fit in.

Anthony Codispoti (04:20.301)
And what are those thresholds in both for -profit and non -profit? What’s sort of like the minimum size company that makes sense for a fractional and then where’s sort of the threshold where it makes sense to bring that talent in -house?

Mathew King (04:31.427)
Yeah, so for profit, it could be anywhere up to six, seven, eight million, depending if it’s services. Now, if it’s product related and they’re selling it, it’ll be higher. Now, for profit, it could be anywhere up to…

Anthony Codispoti (04:47.532)
And that, sorry Matthew, that six, seven, eight million, that’s the threshold that they want to bring it in -house.

Mathew King (04:52.867)
That’s probably the threshold where they’re getting big enough where they need to bring it in -house because they need more than what a fractional can offer.

Anthony Codispoti (05:01.74)
And what would be the minimum size? Revenue? No minimum. Okay.

Mathew King (05:04.387)
There’s no minimum. So I’ve got a client that’s under a million and some that’s six million. And it depends on.

where they’re falling short. And they may just have an interim need where they need some process cleaned up or they just have, they grew from nothing and now they’re at a half a million and they’re a mess. And so it’s anywhere up to that. You could probably stretch to 10 if they’re selling a product, right? Which means your revenue is going to bump up quicker.

Anthony Codispoti (05:35.115)
got it and then how does how do those numbers look for the nonprofit space? that was nonprofit. Okay, and then for pro.

Mathew King (05:39.459)
That was nonprofit. Yeah. So for profit, you probably get up to, for services, 40, 50 million. Now, if you’re selling a product and it’s higher than that, depending on what the product sells for, right? So, you know, you might have a professional services company and they’re selling an hourly rate, right? Whether it’s an attorney or whatever. And so now if they’re selling a product worth 10 ,000 instead of $500 an hour, then that

that revenue can get up higher, but 40 to 50 million for a services company, then at that point, they’re probably ready for like a full -time resource, depending on how they’re sort of trending.

Anthony Codispoti (06:21.099)
And why do those numbers look so different for for -profit versus non -profit, those thresholds?

Mathew King (06:27.203)
It’s a good question. You know, for profit, when they, every hour that they put into something, they’re not selling an hourly rate, right? So an architect sells an hourly rate. So they’ve got their salary, they’re all their staff, whereas a non -profit has salary in their staff, but their money comes from fundraising, government grants. And so they’re not then turning around, they’re basically giving the services for free.

So their revenue is always going to be lower. So you’ll have a $10 million nonprofit. That’s a really good size nonprofit. It’s probably somewhere equivalent to a $40 million for profit. Employee numbers and volume and headache.

Anthony Codispoti (07:06.411)
In terms of employee numbers.

Anthony Codispoti (07:12.011)
Okay. So talk me through the path that led you to starting a fractional CFO company. Because I’ve got a copy of your CV, your resume here in front of me, and I can see that you kind of started out, you know, the entry level staff accountant, slowly worked your way up the accounting ladder, had a couple of longer term CFO type positions that each lasted about eight years. What led you to kind of break off on your own and offer fractional services?

Mathew King (07:30.627)
Yeah.

Mathew King (07:41.443)
Yeah, and I’d always wanted to have a business and I didn’t know what it was even when I was first starting out, but specifically this, I, another CFO when I, my stint in a, in nonprofits, so CFO at Austin Habitat and another CFO at another nonprofit, he went out about four or five years ago and he started his own fractional CFO consulting group and…

He, we reached a couple of years ago, he reached out and said, Hey, would you have interest in doing a bit of work on the side? And at this point I was full time at a physician practice. And I said, no, not really. And then he reached back out a couple of months later and I said, man, I’m in trouble. There’s a client going south. I could really use your help. And so I was like, all right. And I got in there and I instantly regretted it. I didn’t, I was busy.

Anthony Codispoti (08:34.731)
Why? It was just a mess.

Mathew King (08:39.011)
Yeah, they were. But I’ve got two young kids, I had a job, I’ve got their sport, and I just had enough going on. So I got in there and within a couple of months, I was like, all right, now I’ve got it under wraps, I can see, I know where things are and I don’t have to feel like I’m fumbling in the dark. And then I got to the point, I was like, I like this, this is kind of good. And I had registered in LLC,

for consulting work about six years prior, I had done nothing with it. So I was like, why was I complaining about trying this? This is what I’ve been wanting to do. So anyway, that project ended and a couple months later, he, same guy hit me up with a couple more. And so I did two more on the side. And then earlier this year, really the final push was, so I’d been with a physician practice for about seven and a half years. We got bored out by,

much larger group about two years ago. And so my regional CFO role got eliminated early this year, the beginning of February. And so I’m looking around and I’m thinking, well, do I go for another full -time role or do I try and do this full -time? And so, you know, I reached out through all the avenues, reached out to all the CFO fractional groups and recruiters for full -time and just decided I’m going to give the fractional role,

give it a shot. And so far, it looks like it’s working out. And it’s great. Really, the big push was I don’t want to go back to an office. I like having different clients. I like the flexibility. So, yeah, so far, it’s…

Anthony Codispoti (10:25.547)
You get to work from home, set your schedule, you get more flexibility with this, you feel like a little bit more of your own boss as opposed to reporting to somebody else as their CFO full time.

Mathew King (10:38.307)
Absolutely. Now, my mindset is different. Whereas once you’re an employee and you turned up and you go chill out in the kitchen and talk to a coworker and make a coffee, and it’s like, well, that’s not billable time anymore. So I am focused on, you know, so I put in networking time in a week. And frankly, this being one of those, but how I look at a day is different now. So there’s a different motivation.

And I was always a hard worker and always made sure things got done and created value, but it’s just a different mindset.

Anthony Codispoti (11:14.953)
And so what does some of that other networking look like? You mentioned this podcast is a step in that direction. What other kinds of things do you do to get yourself out there?

Mathew King (11:23.907)
Yeah, you know, nonprofit is what put me, really showed me networking. So there’s a really strong networking group here in Austin and showed me the value of it. Prior to that, when I was in for -profit, you don’t tell anybody what you’re doing because it’s, I can’t tell you what our financials are or what our revenue is because it was all secret, right? But it felt secret, but in nonprofits, it’s not. So as I was getting out of there, I realized I had no network in for -profit. So I joined a,

a local group, FEI, Austin. So it’s financial executives, it’s controllers and CFOs. And so as soon as I joined, I signed up for their program. So I did their programs for a couple of years. So every month you got to find a speaker. And so it was great. I got to go out and meet with business owners and people and say, hey, this is what we’re trying to do. Would you be interested in speaking? This is what we’d like to hear. What would you like to say?

So I did that for a couple of years, then I was president of the group and then stayed on the board for a couple of years. So I still attend the meetings, but not on the board. Now with fractional work, I’ve got a business develop, right? So I’ve got them out there, I’ve got a developed business. So I’m joining, there’s an association for corporate growth. And I think they’ve got chapters also around the country. And so I’ve just started going there.

I knew of them, but I really didn’t have a need when I was a CFO of a company before. So join that group. And then there’s another group that I’ll probably get to as well. So they’re breakfast meetings, lunch meetings, some evening meetings. So once or twice a month is the rotation of those.

Anthony Codispoti (13:06.759)
And when you’re at these meetings, you’re meeting other people who are sort of in the financial world and so some leads opportunities come available from that.

Mathew King (13:17.475)
They do. It’s never been my focus. So at FEI, it was really just networking with other CFOs. And then of course, the vendors, which are the sponsors, and the vendors, often they bring more value than your fellow CFO does, right? Because you need to get insurance in place or, you know, we had the COVID crisis, we had a, our PPP loan wasn’t coming through. So I had to use my other channels to get it.

So there’s definitely value from that, but now I’m looking for a different value. So the Association for Corporate Growth, it’s all vendors. You might run into another CFO there. Like I’m a CFO, but I’m a fractional, it’s my business now. But that’s the sort of place where I think business will develop. And I spoke to somebody in my network this week, actually.

And they’ve given me a lead on another group that I’ll probably look into as well. And it’s. Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (14:18.12)
That’s terrific. So that’s where most of your clients have come from, just sort of being at these different networking events and letting people know that you’re around, you’ve got this skill and expertise, and you’re available.

Mathew King (14:30.403)
Yeah, you know, right now it’s come from that one, my network who was a CFO at a nonprofit and he’s got his own group. That’s where most of it’s come from. But as they’re coming up and they say, hey, they’ll reach out to somebody who was once doing it. And they’re like, well, I’m not doing that now, but I know Matt is. And so I’ve had a lead that way. I had a lead, had a call yesterday and they just found me on LinkedIn. I’m still trying to work out.

what search they did to find me because they’re not here in Austin but their HR is in San Antonio. So it’s a variety of things but having a strong network from just years of you once somebody knows you, you know you get to trust them right and so you don’t really need to vet them anymore.

Anthony Codispoti (15:20.103)
And so do most of your client engagements sort of have like a predefined period or they just sort of like ongoing because they just regularly need your services sort of in perpetuity? You have both situations.

Mathew King (15:31.043)
Both. It’s both. Yeah, I’ve had two that have been going for a couple of years. And one, I do more operational things for them than the traditional CFO. I do some CFO work, but they’re ongoing. I’m about to start one that’s three months. It’s fixed. It’ll end at the end of August. But ideally, I’m looking for a couple of anchors, right? One or two anchor clients that they’re at.

that 40 million threshold, they want steady growth, they’re not looking to double and triple and go PE. So I’ll be there for a while. So as long as I’ve got one to two anchor clients, then I can take the interim, the three months here and the three months there, because they’re really hard to put jigsaw puzzles together.

Anthony Codispoti (16:20.134)
And that kind of leads into my next question is sort of describing what would be your ideal client. Any other sort of criteria that checks boxes that are a good fit for you?

Mathew King (16:31.491)
You know, in terms outside of the personnel fit, you know, getting along and making sure we’re going to be a fit with each other, services, I think anything along the services, I’ve not really done anything in tech. It’s probably one thing I haven’t touched. So depending on what it is, it could still be a fit. It just depends on what niche experiences is potentially needed.

Anthony Codispoti (16:59.142)
What do you feel separates you from other fractional CFOs? Somebody’s going to hire you versus another fractional, why are they choosing you?

Mathew King (17:11.619)
Well, as soon as you, once you get past skill set, right, because every industry is different. Sometimes they think it’s different and it’s not. A lot of nonprofits make that mistake. They need a nonprofit person. And I didn’t once do nonprofits, but I joined a nonprofit and did well, right? So sometimes it’s a perspective, but sometimes there is a real skill set that’s needed. So once you get past that, you know, I’m just…

pretty straightforward to work with. Very honest, hardworking, but I think probably mostly I’m pretty calm. So if something hits the fan, I’ll be the one that’s the calmer. I’ll have more perspective. And then vice versa. So we’ve had some successes at companies and people were jumping around, but I wasn’t. I just really just try to stay even keeled.

For the CFO role, I think it’s pretty critical not to sort of jump up and down and sort of jump from one end to the spectrum. So.

Anthony Codispoti (18:18.31)
Now usually that’s the role of the business owner to do that.

Mathew King (18:21.73)
It is the role of the business owner, it’s the role of sales and business development. So yeah, that’s right.

Anthony Codispoti (18:27.045)
You need to be the cooler head in the room.

Mathew King (18:29.411)
I do, and it’s not who I am necessarily outside of work, but I have to be at work.

Anthony Codispoti (18:35.781)
You wear a good mask when you’re at work, huh? Matthew, what’s an interesting fact that most people wouldn’t know about you?

Mathew King (18:38.115)
Yeah.

Mathew King (18:44.323)
There’s a couple. I started off, I actually left school in year 10 and did refrigeration and air conditioning for about six years.

Anthony Codispoti (18:55.013)
And so you say year 10. So we can tell by your accent you’re not native to the US. Where are you from originally? Sydney, okay. So year 10 would be the equivalent of 10th grade, sophomore year of high school, yep. Okay, so you left early to go into refrigeration.

Mathew King (19:02.723)
Sydney.

Mathew King (19:06.499)
Tint, tint. That’s right, that’s right.

Mathew King (19:12.739)
Yeah, so I chose a trade and so I think they still they now encourage you to go to year 12 even if you’re going to be a trades person. So I left in year 10, did my trade, have my trade license, don’t use it, won’t use it again. And so when I was 20, so about four years in, I just had a lot of sporting injuries and I was like, I can’t be hobbling around at 40 years old, I’m already hobbling around.

And so at that point I was like, well, what do I do? I liked math at school and I thought every company needs an accountant. And so that’s kind of really how it started. And you have to think.

Anthony Codispoti (19:54.916)
That feels like a big jump. You left school early, you got into the trades. Now I get the part where like, okay, my body is not holding up to this really well, but to go from trades into math and accounting work feels like a big jump, but.

Mathew King (19:57.891)
It was a big jump.

Mm -hmm.

Mathew King (20:13.283)
It was a big jump and I flip -flopped once because I didn’t feel right. And this is 28 years ago. We didn’t have computers. Like right now you’ve got a smartphone and computers, we all know how to do anything. I had to go to school at night to learn how to touch type, to learn how to use Word and Excel. So the goal was, I was gonna get a job at a company big enough that had a big accounting department.

so I could just push my way in there. It couldn’t be five or six people, right? It had to be 20, 30, 40 people where I could just get in there. But I had to, so I used my customer service experience to do that, but I needed to learn how to use a computer first. So I did that at night for a couple of years. Then I did, I got into a finance company, it’s a division of the Bank of Scotland and worked.

hours where I could go and work in the accounting department for free in the morning and just annoyed the person that they sat me next to. He hated it that I was there. But then when a job opened up in the accounting department, so I did about six or 12 months in taking loans, just basically in a call center, I got a job in the financial accounting team ahead of three or four other people in that same accounting department. Now my boss had hired me.

He regretted it because he realized I didn’t know what I was doing. But I just had to be a little bit hungrier. And so I just had to work hard. So when I got into it, to your point, I didn’t know if I was going to like it. I didn’t know how good I was going to be. And so, but I knew I could outwork the person next to me. So if there’s somebody sitting next to me, I could work harder than them. And by default, I’d learn quicker, right? So, but before I got to that point,

I was still in the call center. I did flip -flop. I was like, I don’t think I can do this. So I went and took a sale job in a place that sold compressors to the air conditioning industry. And so, and then I went there and three months in, I was like, nah, this is not the right thing. And I had a lot of young people that I was working with back at the finance company. I was having a lot of fun there. And at this new place was just older people. And I was like,

Mathew King (22:35.907)
I need to go back. So, anyway, I flip -flopped back and the journey kept on in the same trajectory.

Anthony Codispoti (22:42.179)
Okay, so a couple of things I want to unpack there. So you were still doing refrigeration and you said, I’m going to go to night school on top of that. And you’re how old at this point? 20. So this is a time when most of your friends are probably going out at night, you know, hanging out, chasing girls, you know, slogging back some beers. And you’re kind of missing out on a lot of that because you’re dedicating yourself to learning how to use a computer and, you know, learn to type.

Mathew King (22:50.563)
Mm -hmm. 20.

Mathew King (23:01.603)
Yes.

Anthony Codispoti (23:11.907)
you know, sort of lay that foundation must must have been hard.

Mathew King (23:16.675)
Yeah, it was. But, you know, it was manageable. The harder thing was when I finally got into the accounting program, that was all at night. I didn’t do it through the day. And so that was even more so. That was tougher. So I just had to wait till the weekend. And I had a lot of study to do, but I still had a little bit of time on the weekends. But yes, it was it was just needed, though.

Anthony Codispoti (23:40.93)
And what was this part you mentioned that you worked for free in one of the accounting programs? How did that come to be?

Mathew King (23:47.171)
Yeah, yeah. So we, we serviced all of Australia. And so it was a finance division of the Bank of Scotland, but it was based in Sydney. So we serviced all of Australia. And so I chose the 11 to eight shift every day that I could. So from, and that’s, that covers Perth, right? There’s a three hour time difference, time difference in Perth. So you’re eight o ‘clock in Sydney is five o ‘clock in Perth. So I did the 11 to eight shift.

So the first three hours I asked my supervisor, can you ask the accounting team? I’d like to, can I work down there? I want to get into accounting at some point. And so they sat me next to this poor kid and I just watched how little he did every day for three hours.

Anthony Codispoti (24:32.738)
Did you learn much from watching that lack of activity?

Mathew King (24:34.883)
Not a thing. But that wasn’t the goal. The goal was just to show that I was interested in when an opportunity came up.

Anthony Codispoti (24:43.49)
Got it. And so where does this drive come from? You said, you know, hey, I didn’t know what I was doing. I didn’t have the experience, but I knew that I could outwork the guy next to me. Where does that come from?

Mathew King (24:44.579)
Yeah.

Mathew King (24:55.991)
I’m not sure. I knew I had to make a living and I needed to earn money and…

I knew I was behind the eight ball, right? So I signed up for school when everybody was getting out of school. And so I was like, geez, if I’m going to do this now, I’ve got to work harder. And so it’s just by default. And so I think it’s a little bit about upbringing, I suppose, Anthony.

Anthony Codispoti (25:24.193)
Your parents were hard workers. They instilled that work ethic in you.

Mathew King (25:26.947)
Yeah, yeah and I saw my grandfather as well. He would go to work and do his job and he’d come home and fix the house up and he was always busy doing stuff and that just he was always working so it just seemed like that’s what you do.

Anthony Codispoti (25:43.586)
So you were close with your parents, your grandparents, but at some point you decided to leave home. How was it that you ended up here in the States?

Mathew King (25:52.771)
Yeah, yeah, that’s so I stayed at the finance group for about three years and accounting work when you’re starting off at that level is exceedingly boring. And so I was looking for the next opportunity. And like I said, I was behind the eight ball, so I had to be really aggressive. So I got lucky with an opportunity that.

a lot of recruiters weren’t putting me forward through to. But I was able to get hired directly and it was at Christian Dior. So it was the Sydney office for the Parfarms division. So we service Parfarms for Australia. Fashion and Jewellery was in Melbourne. So at Christian Dior and at Christian Dior, it’s an international company. So we had a lot of people doing their working visa there.

I worked with three or four girls from Ireland, a French guy, a couple of English guys. And so I stayed there for about a year and a half and I just contracted the bug at that point. They were doing their, so it’s all part of the Commonwealth. So you can sign up for a working visa with certain countries and you can be gone for a year or in some countries, two years. And I saw how much fun they were having and…

I was like, I’m out of here. And so I needed to do this before I settled down with kids and a family. And that was it. And so I was Christian Dior for about a year and a half and I signed up. So that first year was January through December. And then I decided, so beginning of January, the next year, I signed up as soon as the program opened, because they, all the visas get taken by about March. So signed up and then by June,

Anthony Codispoti (27:19.393)
You

Mathew King (27:46.819)
I was finishing off a couple of subjects of my accounting program and that was the impetus to leave at that point. So I was waiting for a semester to end and then I was out of there.

Anthony Codispoti (27:59.809)
So you met your wife before or after you left Australia?

Mathew King (28:04.323)
in, in Europe and she’s, she’s from Texas. So yeah, so I signed up, so I did a working visa in Canada and I thought, well, let me do a trip before then. So I did a 37 day bus ride through Western Europe and it’s a, it’s a big thing in Australia and New Zealand. It’s a New Zealand born company. It’s called Contiki. And so it’s not as well known here in the States, but she did it with a girlfriend of hers. So there was a handful of Americans and Canadians on this trip, but.

predominantly Australian and New Zealanders. So it’s 50 people on this bus for 37 days and you’re all young. You can’t be over 35 on this bus. And so you party a lot, you get to know each other very well. And so she was on that bus. So we got to know each other well. And after that, I went to Ireland, I visited the people that I worked with at Crescendiore and hung out with them for a few weeks. And…

I stopped in at Austin on the way to Toronto for a few weeks.

Anthony Codispoti (29:07.616)
It’s really not on the way, but okay.

Mathew King (29:09.603)
It’s no, it wasn’t exactly on the way, but she, she called me in Dublin and yeah, she said, why don’t you stop on the way? And I was like, well, I don’t really have a lot of money left. And she said, well, do you want to see me or not? And I was like, well, I guess, I guess I want to see you. So, so I went to Toronto and it was going to be there for a year. And then we said nine months, then six months, then after three months, we’re like, let me move down to Austin. Cause I can’t sleep at night.

Anthony Codispoti (29:14.368)
You had motivation, you had a reason to be there, yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (29:23.904)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha

Mathew King (29:37.795)
you keep calling, my family keep calling and I’m trying, I’m dying here. So anyway, so I moved down to Austin and I’ve been here for 21 years.

Anthony Codispoti (29:46.975)
All right, this is home now, huh? Yeah, interesting to hear about the bus experience across Europe. I had the opportunity to do the backpacking thing in college in Europe as well. And the number of Australians and New Zealanders that I met who were not only doing the same thing, but were doing it for extended periods of time. Like it seemed like a common thing to just take a year off and just, I’m just gonna go and walk about. It was…

Mathew King (29:49.027)
Yeah, this is home.

Mathew King (30:16.547)
It’s crazy. I had some friends that they did a year and they did backpack and hostel and I wasn’t as brave as that. I signed up for a working visa so I could get a job and pay for a place to live. So, but yeah, they, it was, it was, it was, you still had to work at it, but it was easier.

Anthony Codispoti (30:29.471)
much more comfortable way to do it.

Anthony Codispoti (30:35.359)
Yeah. Matthew, I’m curious, you know, as business leaders and particularly, you know, CFOs, you know, who are helping companies drive EBITDA, you know, one of our many jobs is to help find ways to increase profitability for the company. I’m curious if there’s anything interesting that comes to mind that you’ve tried in the past as either a way to lower costs or, you know, boost, help boost sales for a company.

Mathew King (31:00.627)
Yeah. Gosh, I mean, every place you start. So I’ll start with the most recent, that was the physician practice. So when I got there, first thing I did was you study the transactions, right? I want to make sure the financials are good before I start projecting off. So I want to make sure the base is good before I project off something that’s not good. But I started to studying the transactions and putting reports together. And what I noticed was,

And it was a family physician group. So you go to a doctor, right? And you, sometimes it might be just a cough and a cold. Sometimes you might have something, you’re a little bit more sick and they code that visit based on the complexity. And so, so I ran this report and I went to my boss who was one of the owners of the company, halftime provider, physician, halftime administrator. I said, does it make sense that.

we’ve got, and we had like 50 providers. So does it make sense that half of them are coding 30 % 214s, 99214s, and the other half are coding 70%, they’re all doing the same thing when it flushes out every year. And he said, no, that doesn’t make sense. And so I put together a model and showed them the revenue that we were foregoing by doing that. And for, you know, a $20 million company,

I showed them that we were at least 750 ,000 foregone to a million and a half. And so what the next thing we did was I found one of the, on paper, one of the physicians, one of the owners who was a good coder. And it turns out he was very actually a technically good coder. And so we put together a coding program for all of the providers. So he and I went around and we trained each of the providers.

Anthony Codispoti (32:32.126)
I don’t know.

Mathew King (32:56.899)
on, hey, these are the things you want to be doing. And just kind of dumbed down and simplified that process because it can get complicated, right? And it can weigh the provider down. They’re like, gosh, did I spend 20 minutes? Was it 25? And did I do this? And so we really just simplified how you can think about it. But a lot of it was exactly right. And a lot of it was just their mental. They’re like, you know,

Anthony Codispoti (33:17.63)
some sort of a decision matrix that you created for them.

Mathew King (33:25.699)
It’s just easier to do a two, one, three than it is to think about having to write down two, one, four. I’m like, well, let’s stop that, right? Because you do that for a thousand people in a year. That’s a big impact to you and your compensation, but it’s not for them. They’re coming in once or twice a year. It makes very little difference to them. But if you’re not earning market compensation, what’s the long -term viability of this organization if we can’t do that? And so it was, a lot of it was changing behavior.

So we did the training program, which helped, but then I still had to work with a couple of physicians and I would meet with them monthly and just really walk them through what it takes to do it. And sometimes it was simple as have a post -it note at the end of the day, write down to me threes and how many fours you did and send it to me on an email, do that for the next two weeks. Cause they would tell me, well, I feel like I did a lot. I was like, well, here’s the report you didn’t. So.

Let’s come up with a way where we can give you instant feedback. And it was simple as putting it on a piece of paper at the end of the day. So that was probably one of the biggest things was just changing that, how they produce revenue.

Anthony Codispoti (34:37.501)
What made you look for or even notice that opportunity in the first place? How did that hit your radar?

Mathew King (34:46.019)
what you do. As a CFO, you come in and you study the business. So we had 11 business owners, but we had 15 business units effectively. And so we had 15 P &Ls that I ran within the one P &L. But it was really just, whether it’s 15 P &Ls or different product lines, you run the profitability to see, well,

Why is this product line profiting and this one’s not? And as if there’s an explanation, that’s great. And if there’s not, then you’ve got to dig further. And in this instance, there was not. So we dug further. I was like, well, why is this P &L profitable? They’re producing the same volume. They’re seeing the same amount of patients. And so then it’s just a matter of digging in. So you’re just studying the transactions and you just study the business.

Anthony Codispoti (35:39.165)
Was it challenging to sort of coach doctors through this? Were you running into some ego pushback or were they really receptive to what you were trying to do?

Mathew King (35:49.987)
You know, it’s funny you say that. So when I took on the gig, I was like, I’m going to know in the first three months if this is going to work out working with physicians. But I got in there and there were a couple of easy. This was one of them, but we also did some outsourcing of our IT. So I think I earned their trust pretty quick. And that helped. Now, that didn’t happen. And I just walked around and met with them.

They’d kind of look at me sideways waiting for me to stop talking so they could just go about their day. But they saw the value that I was providing, so they actually listened. So once it’s building trust was the big thing, really just showing them, hey, this is the value and this is why we need to create this value. And they were all business owners. They were like, some of them were like, why am I not earning as much as this and as this? I was like, well, here’s why.

You know, here’s what we do. And so they saw the value.

Anthony Codispoti (36:51.004)
So it certainly helped that not only was the company’s earnings being affected by this, but their own individual pockets were being affected by the behavior. So they had real motivation to get on board.

Mathew King (36:59.139)
Absolutely. Yep. That’s right. They did.

Anthony Codispoti (37:05.724)
Matthew, any specific books, mentors, training groups, experiences that have been formidable and helpful in your career trajectory?

Mathew King (37:19.075)
I don’t read a lot of leadership books. I’ve tried it and I don’t like them. I like Harvard Business Review. I like snippets. I like to read a page or two of a business story, then get to the point and then see the conclusion. So that’s what I do. I get to inspiration from that. It’s like,

Anthony Codispoti (37:28.347)
Fair enough.

Mathew King (37:48.867)
It could be a human resource or it could be starting out a business. Like, what did they do? What did they overcome? I don’t want to read 300 pages to get there. I read novels. So when I read, I read a novel. But in terms of learning, every job that I’ve had, I got there and I looked at my boss. And as soon as I thought that I could do a better job than they were doing, I knew it was time to get out of there.

But I learned, I didn’t go in there with a critical eye and say, well, they did it. That was a terrible decision. I just got to the point where I was like, I think I would have handled that differently and I’m comfortable with the process that they’re doing. And that’s when I went to the next job. So where I really learned and where I got some really good mentoring was when I went to Austin Habitat. At that point, I was the head of finance and my boss was the CEO. And so I got there.

When the firstly, I was like, I’m not allowed to, not sure if I’m allowed to swear in this podcast, but I said, dang, there’s not a, there’s not a finance person that I can rely on anymore. I am the finance person. Everybody’s looking to me. So that was one adjustment. But then I was looking to the CEO when I realized he was not a good business person. He was a good relationship builder, which for a nonprofit was what he needed to be great at business development, but I didn’t realize he was a terrible business person. So I.

Anthony Codispoti (38:54.075)
You

Mathew King (39:18.627)
I relied on him originally until I realized I couldn’t. But I learned from him, man, how to build a relationship, how to get buy -in from the staff, and then how to develop business and things I had never really thought about. And we had a big business decision that we implemented in the first year that I got there.

And I was younger and I was just ready to just get it done, right? Let’s just get in, let’s implement it. And he’s like, well, we need to bring in this stuff. We need to lay out what we’re doing and why we’re doing it. We need to get the buy -in. And for me, I was frustrated by that. I was like, we know this needs to get done, but at the end of the road, when it got done, and it was the right thing. And so I learned from that.

Anthony Codispoti (40:08.314)
So what were some of those sort of big takeaways, the big learnings from building relationships, how to develop a business? What are some other key lessons that you held on?

Mathew King (40:18.787)
be patient. Don’t do it. And I still am a little impatient at times, but rely. So if you’ve got something and you need to do change, you need to get buy -in from the staff. So change management, management’s a real thing. You don’t just go and do it in a silo and then tell everybody this is what we’re doing. Because they’re, whether they think it’s needed or not, they’re frustrated by that. And then they’re going to be your

Nemesis now right instead of your advocate because you didn’t bring him into the fold So change management is a huge thing Just building rapport So getting in so now I’m you know when you go get a new job right you’re like the first three months are gonna be terrible because I’ve got to build rapport I’ve got to build trust again and

Anthony Codispoti (41:15.193)
Nobody knows how awesome you are yet.

Mathew King (41:17.283)
Nobody knows how awesome I am, right? And so it can be a long road. And so now I’m doing that constantly with new clients as a fractional role. And so you just…

Could I have done this five, 10 years ago? I don’t know, right? Because I’ve got to come in and build rapport really quickly. I am humble, but you can’t be arrogant. You can’t come in and just boss people around. And arrogance can never be there anyway. But when you’ve got a shorter runway, it’s even more so important, right? Because there’s no period where you can get forgiveness, right? Because that project may have ended.

So just learning how to build rapport, build trust. The CEO at Habitat, when we met with donors or even if it was the banker, he just sat there and listened. He always had this thing where he had his fingers together. But I just, it was, it was. But he was just very patient and listened. And then when he spoke, it was generally very thoughtful.

Anthony Codispoti (42:18.745)
I’m picturing Mr. Burns from The Simpsons.

Mathew King (42:29.411)
And so, you know, you read and you read books and they say, listen more than you talk. And most people don’t, but you do need to. And so because you’re, you may have not have your thought properly developed yet. And they may have something better to say than you do. And so, so anyway, learn a lot from that. And then really just, I just now just observe anybody who I’m working with any conversation that I’m.

interacting with or observing, I’m just watching how they’re handling that conversation. Was it, you know, was it, there’s things that it’s not going to be authentic for me. So I don’t use what they may have used that was successful, but I’ll try and take snippets away.

Anthony Codispoti (43:15.769)
Matthew, share with us what your tech stack looks like. What kind of software tools are you using to help you run your business and serve your clients?

Mathew King (43:26.307)
That’s evolving. So one client for the longest time, it’s just been for an accountant, it’s your accounting software and Excel. Right. And so Excel is still, I mean, I’ll write a Word document in Excel. Excel is what I use. But.

Anthony Codispoti (43:48.184)
You’re a lot more comfortable if it fits into a grid, however big that prose may be.

Mathew King (43:50.691)
Yeah

I’ll put it to print screen so I can make sure it fits onto a page. But no, so as you get bigger, you might need a budgeting tool that’s bigger than Excel. But for most of the companies I work with, it’s not generally needed until you get to really large scale companies. But one client I’m working with, they’re using Asana. It’s A -E -S -A -E -N -A. And it’s just a, thank you.

Anthony Codispoti (44:21.015)
project management tool.

Mathew King (44:23.747)
And I was annoyed at first. I was like, dang, it’s something else I’ve got to learn. But now I love it. And so I have a weekly call with this group and he sent me an email and we had a call and I said, hey, you haven’t put that into Asana. So now I’m telling them to get it into Asana. But it’s fantastic. I mean, I go there, I am a believer. You go there and all your projects are there. All the latest updates are there. And I don’t use it to its fullest extent by any means.

Anthony Codispoti (44:40.471)
You’re a believer now.

Mathew King (44:50.883)
In fact, I’m not even sure yet how to set up a new client without the old client seeing it. That’s research I’ve got to do, but it’s fantastic. And so there’ll be other things I think that are going to come up just like that.

Anthony Codispoti (45:04.586)
Are you using any kind of instant messaging tools with your clients or not broached that yet?

Mathew King (45:09.955)
No, no one client likes to message on Microsoft Teams. I must admit, I don’t think I’m as good at adhering to that for them. But that’s also the group we’re on with Asana. And so I think we’ve got enough cadence and enough communication. But they do a lot of instant messaging in their internal team. That’s it seems how they communicate.

I had one group I worked with years and years ago and they IAMed. And I was like, great, so now I’ve got a telephone, I’ve got the computer email, I’ve got IAM. I was like, what do I answer? But there’s a use for them all.

Anthony Codispoti (45:47.831)
Everything all at once.

Anthony Codispoti (45:55.703)
Matthew, what’s something you wish you could teach the 20 -year -old version of yourself?

Mathew King (46:03.586)
Hmm.

Anthony Codispoti (46:10.263)
Something you know now that’s pretty familiar and obvious to you that, and that would have been helpful to know when you were younger.

Mathew King (46:20.611)
You know, gosh, I, so when I’m sitting on my back deck, that’s when I reflect. It’s I take the time to reflect on how was the week just gone? What’s coming up next week? But then I also think about the last 20 years and the last 30 years. And I don’t know that I’d change a lot. I think one big thing that I’ve had is I’ve had some.

I’ve been lazy with some interactions, right? I’ve had an interaction at work and maybe I think I was just probably a little bit too bossy and didn’t listen enough. And I looked back and I was like, man, I did not handle that well. And then a year later, I looked back at another conversation. I said, I still did not handle that very well. So I’m trying to get better at making sure I, and I think I am like,

When I, like the change management thing I was talking about, when I see something that needs to get done and I know it’s the right thing, it may not be exactly, exactly the right thing, but I feel like it’s the right thing, right? So I’m into it. I think I’m getting better at just making sure it’s the right thing before I really push it down people’s throat.

and not being defensive.

Anthony Codispoti (47:44.502)
making sure it’s the right thing for the other party as well. Sort of mutually beneficial.

Mathew King (47:48.195)
Making sure it’s the right thing. That’s right. And that’s the thing about having a meeting, right? When you have a meeting, everybody should walk away from there with taking something away. And it’s the same with that. It should be mutually beneficial. And I think I haven’t handled that well in the past.

Anthony Codispoti (48:07.99)
Got you. Matthew, what are some things, some passions, some interests that you have outside of…

Mathew King (48:16.099)
So when I moved here to Austin, it was 2003. And you have to remember, it’s not like it is now. I didn’t even have a mobile phone, let alone a smartphone. Nobody had a smartphone. We didn’t know what that was. I did buy a laptop, but you didn’t have access to everything you do now. So now I can stream Australian rules football back home and rugby league back home. And rugby league is my main sport.

And we’re in season now. And so that’s what I do when I’m sitting on the back deck, but I was homesick. I didn’t have access to that. And so I was here in Austin the first three months. I didn’t even have my visa. I didn’t have my temporary visa in yet. So I was doing nothing. I was just riding around Austin. Learning just riding the streets. And I remember some old Hispanic guy who is obviously retired, thought that I was just not working, not at school and called me a bum one day. I was like, I’m not.

But, you know, because of being homesick, I found, I was looking for something to connect with other Australians. And so I found there was an Australian Rules Football League in the States. And there was once a team in Austin for a couple of years. They’re actually while I was here, but they’d fallen away before I looked at them up and they never really got big. So anyway, I reached out to them.

And one guy responded who had played on the team when they were a team. And he said, no, they’re not around anymore. And so, so I kicked that off. So we went and kicked the ball around a little bit. And I never played this sport in Australia. I didn’t even watch the game till I was 19, because Sydney is a rugby league town. Melbourne is an Australian rules football town, but there wasn’t a rugby league team. There’s rugby union, which is different.

Anthony Codispoti (50:05.876)
Mmm.

Mathew King (50:13.155)
I didn’t want to play Rek -Ni.

Anthony Codispoti (50:13.237)
You’re really confusing all the American listeners right now. They’re like, I thought it was just all rugby. What’s the difference here?

Mathew King (50:16.483)
I know it, I know it. Yeah. No, so rugby league is very similar code to rugby union, but some different intricacies. And I’m not a huge reunion fan unless it’s the World Cup. So Australian rules football is very different. It’s a big oval field. It’s like two, three times bigger than American football field, two to three times bigger than a soccer field. So when we rent a field here in Austin,

we rent three or four fields and run diagonally, three or four soccer fields. So it’s 18 a side. So it’s a lot of running. You get to avoid contact. It’s still contact, but it’s not like, it’s like World War II, right? There’s a bit of strategy, whereas World War I, you just like, just charge them. To see how you go, just charge that line and see what happens. So there was an Australian rules football team. And at one point I was like, you know what? I’m going to get this thing back off the ground.

Anthony Codispoti (50:48.692)
Wow.

Mathew King (51:15.491)
And so started that in earnest in late 05 and nearly quit it a couple of times because it’s very hard. The economy, the town is not like it is now. So there weren’t many Australians around. The economy wasn’t as big. So that brings people from all over the country and the world. So we’ve got that now. But in 2008, there was an Aussie here at a local college.

on a tennis scholarship and he bought out a few guys and we kind of doubled and from there grew momentum. So I started an Australian rules football team and really kicked off. We had our first national. So that every year there’s a team in any major city you’re in. So what city are you in, Anthony?

Anthony Codispoti (51:59.252)
I’m in Columbus, Ohio. Okay.

Mathew King (52:01.155)
There’s a Columbus team and we’ve actually played national tournaments in Racine, in Columbus. I’ve been up there numerous times. So it’s.

Anthony Codispoti (52:11.476)
So wait, you were a guy that left the refrigeration industry because you were worried about it being hard on your body, but now many years later you’re getting involved in a pretty aggressive sport and starting up a team and sort of reigniting the league. That’s great.

Mathew King (52:19.683)
I know.

Mathew King (52:24.579)
Yeah.

Yes, I’m sore. My lower back, I live in pain. But no, and so I did have to, the last few years, so I stopped playing when I was 40. So I’m 48 now, so I stopped about eight years ago. But the last three years of playing, I bet my life was icing, stretching, and watching kids outside of work. So I came home and I watched them and change their diapers while I was stretching and icing my body. But yes.

So we started the team and now in Austin, we have won division one, I think it’s like eight division one titles and so in the last 10 years. And so we’ve just, it is, and we built it from.

Anthony Codispoti (53:04.372)
Wow. Wow. That’s a dynasty.

Mathew King (53:13.827)
a mentality where we couldn’t turn anybody away because we couldn’t afford to. And so some teams would, and this comes, this came down to, I got a lot of growth from doing this. I did things like developed people. I had to go out and develop sponsors. So I learned things that then I could put into my professional career. And so we had a philosophy where if you turned up and you wanted to play, then you, you, you played. Now we expected something from you and you had to work a hundred percent.

And if you didn’t work 100%, we would talk with you about it. And if you didn’t fit in and you treated people and you were arrogant and you didn’t bring the right personality, I would pull you aside and say, hey, this isn’t working out. This is what we need from you. And so, so we would, anybody who came, now we loved it if they had athletic ability. It was a gold mind and we would date, we would date them and do whatever we needed to keep them. But it didn’t matter if they didn’t.

if they turned up, but we had an expectation of them. And that has just continued on. So the guys that have taken it over, the guys that I bought on and I worked with when I was still there and they’re keeping it going. And it’s amazing.

Anthony Codispoti (54:27.507)
Are they mostly Aussies who play or are there any Americans or other nationalities that show an interest?

Mathew King (54:33.795)
So to grow the game in America, when you play, half the team has got to be American. Half the team on that field has to be American. And they did that because there was a team that had their share of Australians and then they had a bunch of Irish and then the Gaelic sport is very similar. So they had these Irish and Australians and they were just demolishing teams and it wasn’t growing. It wasn’t growing in their town with the locals, right?

And so I was like, all right, half the team has got to be American, not Australian. And you’ve got your American citizenship. You’ve got to be American. And it’s

Anthony Codispoti (55:09.619)
And how do you prove that? You make them talk out loud for a while, see if their accent slips through.

Mathew King (55:15.235)
We had one guy who was born in Egypt. He’s American. His father is Egyptian. He was born there for two weeks and they moved to America. So his birth certificate says born in Egypt. So he didn’t qualify as American. And we had too many issues. We made him kick a ball and he was a terrible athlete. We made him kick a ball. We made him kick a ball in front of the slag and said, look, he’s American. Just kick the ball. And he’s like, all right, we’ll put him down as American.

Anthony Codispoti (55:34.29)
So you put him in the American bucket then.

Mathew King (55:44.899)
But you have to have your birth certificate. Yeah. There is. Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (55:46.226)
Okay, all right, there is some verification that goes on there. Now, have you warmed up to any of the American sports since you’ve been here?

Mathew King (55:55.107)
I played baseball for three years as a young teen. So I love baseball. And I’ve been coaching my son’s baseball since kindergarten. He’s 12. Then I moved on to basketball. And so that was my really my main passion was basketball. So I love basketball. You know, I watched American football in Sydney back when the Bills couldn’t win a Super Bowl. Do you remember that? And so

Anthony Codispoti (56:21.522)
I do. I am.

Mathew King (56:24.419)
Dolphins were my team and then I stopped watching it for a long time. I just got tired of the delays in the game and the the showboating and But this year my son wanted me to start watching a few guys so I started watching it and I love it again By default from all those years back, it’s the dolphins and I just like the color of their uniform. So I was like, I’m gonna I’m supporting them

Anthony Codispoti (56:31.218)
Mm.

Anthony Codispoti (56:40.37)
So who’s your NFL team? Who do you guys follow down?

It’s still the Dolphins, okay.

Mathew King (56:52.067)
But yeah, I enjoyed it. So there was an American expat who used to show a game every Tuesday night. And I had a little fuzzy black and white color TV. It was, and it’s, I couldn’t even see the players properly. But no, so I started watching that again.

Anthony Codispoti (57:06.77)
So you got into the dolphins because of their uniform colors, but you were watching on a black and white television.

Mathew King (57:12.323)
Well, I had a color as well. It may have been black and white. It was not very good.

Anthony Codispoti (57:17.842)
and then who’s your NBA team?

Mathew King (57:20.803)
This spurs by default because they’re the closest. So we had some good years.

Anthony Codispoti (57:26.994)
Yeah, so you were you were during the Admiral David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Is that when you were following?

Mathew King (57:34.947)
So I grew up playing basketball when MJ, Michael Jordan was playing. So that was when I was playing as a teen. You know, I loved, I was a huge Knicks fan. I liked Mason and all the guys that played on the Knicks. I still love watching some of the replays on YouTube, but you know, I didn’t really have a team when I was back then. I liked the Hornets because I liked Alonzo Mourning. He just looked like the kind of guy I wanted to be. Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (57:59.378)
Hmm.

Anthony Codispoti (58:03.922)
Yeah, he was stacked. Yeah.

Mathew King (58:05.699)
He was stacked. I’m still trying to get there. But so the Spurs and then the next is any Texas team. So any Texas team I support. So I’m an Astros fan, Mavs fan, Rockets fan. But I like players too. I just, I like watching some players. I enjoyed watching Chris Paul. I like, loved watching him play.

Anthony Codispoti (58:28.882)
CP3, mm -hmm, yeah, he’s a great ball handler. Matthew, just have one more question for you, but before I ask it, I wanted to do two things. First, I want to invite people, if you enjoyed today’s content, hit the like, share, or subscribe button on your favorite podcast app. The second thing I want to do is point people to the best way to get in touch with you. Is that through your website, kingstrategy .com? Is that LinkedIn? What’s the best way for people to reach out to you?

Mathew King (58:58.594)
Yeah, Kingstrategy .com is a good one. The LinkedIn profile, my email, am I allowed to say it? It’s KingMatt75 at gmail .com. So just K -I -N -G -A -T, just one T, so one T in Matthew. And from there, yeah, if you’re looking for your fractional help, I’d love to touch base and see if I can help. May not be a fit, may be a fit. It’s just…

Anthony Codispoti (59:07.41)
Absolutely.

Anthony Codispoti (59:27.378)
And if it’s not, you’ve networked really well, you may be able to point them in the right direction to somebody who is. Great, so last question for you, Matthew. How do you see your industry, and maybe more specifically your business, evolving in the next five years? What are the big changes that you see coming?

Mathew King (59:32.099)
And I have, I have done, yeah.

Mathew King (59:44.771)
Yeah.

man, I think we’re going to see. For nonprofits, it’s pretty safe. They’re not going to get bought out by private equity, right? But everything else is. And so, you know, seven and a half years at a physician practice, and they were staunch, the owners of not being bought by a hospital system. We went to market before being bought by this large family group in Florida. And we…

got an offer from a large hospital system and they just didn’t, it’s not what they wanted to do to their patients. Costs go up. And so the environment’s changed. And so you looked around and you probably, everyone listening, you have an animal and you go to a vet, the vet clinics will again, bought up by PE, pain clinics, dermatology. So I was seeing that because I was in the physician industry, but it’s happening everywhere, right? So you, they’re very,

smaller groups are just becoming less and less.

So it just depends on what the owners want to do. Do they want to cash out? And if they want to cash out, then they’ll sell it off and it’ll hit a portfolio of companies this PE group has, and then they’ll change the setup. And so for me, I think it’s going to evolve, especially on the for -profit front. I may have a client who doesn’t want to, they want to keep growing steady growth, but then one day one of the driving forces behind that company,

Mathew King (01:01:20.451)
which is what happened at our physician group, the driving force, my boss, just he was done. He wanted to do other things and nobody else was ready to step up and nobody else had the ability to really do what he’d been doing. So if that driving force says, I’m done, I just want to cash out. So I think it’s…

You know, PE sounds sexy and VC sounds sexy, but they change a business. Sometimes not for the better, sometimes for the better. I’m not against them by any means, but they turn the screw a little bit further. They’ll reduce expense, do what they can increase revenue, but sometimes it’s at the peril of the customer service at the other end.

And I can say that from an IT group that I used at Habitat and then at the physician practice, they got bored out and this service went downhill. And I’m in touch with the owner who started that business and he’s now gonna do it again. He’s gonna go all over again. But there’s a purpose for it and a place, but the business landscape, I think it’s just gonna keep changing.

Anthony Codispoti (01:02:34.094)
Do you think business owners are gonna find it harder even if they want to stay independent to be able to do that and compete because the PEs, I don’t know, they’ve got sort of the buying scale to squeeze them out and out -compete?

Mathew King (01:02:50.787)
depends on what they do and how long they’ve been in it. So I think professional services groups probably aren’t at the same risk because you’re not hiring a company to buy the product that anybody can produce. You’re hiring their manpower, right? You’re hiring that architect or you’re hiring that attorney and you’ve built a relationship in that city and you can’t really replicate that now on a…

For a physician group, it just gets incredibly difficult to run. They’re very low margin. You’ve got to get high volume. And most people just don’t want to deal with it. And so they join another group so they don’t have to do with the billing. They don’t have to deal with staffing. So as long as you’ve got good people, a good HR person to run your staff, you’ve got a good finance person to make sure your business is running well, you can do it. And you’re not at risk of being outcompeted.

I don’t think, but there are going to be some industries that yeah, they’re going to come in and they’re going to invest in a tool or a technology that then they can drop down. And then there’s an ROI in 10 years, but they can drop down the cost. So for some, it’ll happen for sure.

Anthony Codispoti (01:04:05.358)
Great. Matthew, I want to be the first one to thank you for sharing your story with us today. Really appreciate it.

Mathew King (01:04:10.851)
Awesome. Yeah, it was fun. I appreciate it.

Anthony Codispoti (01:04:12.878)
That’s a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories podcast. Thanks for learning with us today.