From Tech to Teaching: How Sima Shah is Transforming Early Education in Silicon Valley

Intro  

Welcome to another edition of inspired stories where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes, how they’ve overcome adversity, and explore current challenges they’re facing.

Anthony Codispoti: Welcome to another edition of the inspired stories, podcast where leaders share their experiences. So we can learn from their successes and be inspired by how they’ve overcome adversity.

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Anthony Codispoti: My name is Anthony Cotisbodi, and today’s guest is Sima Shah.

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Anthony Codispoti: owner of 4 primrose schools and counting

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Anthony Codispoti: primrose of Willow Gwen, which is in San Jose, California.

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Anthony Codispoti: primrose of Cupertino, also in San Jose, and 2 locations that will open in late 2025, which are primrose, of milpitas and Primrose of San Jose North Alameda.

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Anthony Codispoti: Now, Primrose is a national chain of early childhood. Education centers.

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Anthony Codispoti: Seema has a bachelor’s in computer engineering and a master’s in computer science from Usc. And she received her site supervisor permit after completing the necessary coursework in childhood development.

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Anthony Codispoti: Now, before starting, her child care centers, Seema was involved in a number of technical computer jobs and was even a professor of computer science for a time.

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Anthony Codispoti: So we’ll get to hear about her nontraditional path to early childhood education, and we’ll get to hear about her passion for research-based and innovative education. Now, before we get into all that good stuff.

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Anthony Codispoti: today’s episode is brought to you by my company. Add back benefits agency, where we offer very specific and unique employee benefits that are both great for your team and fiscally optimized for your bottom line.

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Anthony Codispoti: One recent client was able to add over $900 per employee per year in extra cash flow by implementing one of our proprietary programs results vary for each company, and some organizations may not be eligible to find out if your company qualifies contact us today at addbackbenefitsagency.com.

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Anthony Codispoti: Now back to our guest today, the owner of multiple primrose schools seema. I appreciate you making the time to share your story. Today.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Thank you for inviting me, Anthony.

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Anthony Codispoti: So seema. It seems to me like you took a bit of a non-traditional path to get here. You’ve got a strong background both on the educational side as well as practical work experience in more technical computer oriented jobs.

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Anthony Codispoti: Talk to me about how that transition from one industry to the early childhood education industry came about.

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Anthony Codispoti: Yeah.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Sure. So it all comes down to me being a mom being an immigrant mom in this country because, yes, I had a tech job I was. I was working in a tech industry.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Then I became mom in 2,005. I just made quite a bit of assumptions. About.

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SimaShah-Primrose: You know I live in a tech capital of the world. When it’s time for me to find the right childcare, there will be a lot of opportunities to be honest. I struggled a bit at that particular point. I didn’t have much knowledge about child development, what I was looking for, but I was kind of

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SimaShah-Primrose: you know. Not being sure about is this is what I’m looking for right? I struggled a bit. I would keep my daughter in a childcare center. Then, you know, disenroll her back. Something that was not setting right to me

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SimaShah-Primrose: right once she became a preschool age I started learning about different philosophies like Tessori play, based

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SimaShah-Primrose: all of that. And I just like any other mom. I wanted to have the best for my daughter. Right? I kind of designed my own program by sending my daughter to 2 different schools Montessori program as well as you know, a structured program. It didn’t go well, because, you know, they’re just little being, you know, sending to 2 different schools 2 different schedules. It just becomes a struggle for them.

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SimaShah-Primrose: although I may think it’s a. It’s a great plan that I have created for her.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Then I just started thinking there has to be a very balanced program which provides a good balance of you know, different philosophies because every child is different. Their personalities are different, you know, and I was just thinking about it. You know, there got to be. There has to be a better program.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Somehow. I ran into Primrose through Wall Street Journal article, and that’s where I learned about their balanced learning philosophy, and I was immediately stuck and impressed. And, to be honest, I took the phone. I called the 800 number

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SimaShah-Primrose: from that article, and I called them and asked them, Hey, do you have any primary schools in California?

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SimaShah-Primrose: And they’d say, we don’t have any schools in California. We don’t plan to expand in California. That’s not our roadmap. California is not the market for us, and that was the end of the story.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Fast. Forward come 2,012 you know. I received a call from Primrose Corporate because they saved my number for about 6 to 7 years. Right. And they said, Hey, seema! You remember you called us couple of years back. You wanted to enroll your daughter in primrose schools. We are reaching out to you, because will you be interested in opening a primrose schools?

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SimaShah-Primrose: Literally. I was sitting in my.

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Anthony Codispoti: Sorry. See me so the 1st time that you called them was not to open up a facility. It was just looking for a location for your daughter. Okay.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Absolutely.

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Anthony Codispoti: So now they called you back, and they said, Hey, you want to be the first.st

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yeah. And I still remember, I still like I was sitting in my cube, you know, just in front of computer, you know, in a cube like, you know. Everybody sits in a cube in a tech world, and they call me, and you know I was quite a bit surprised, but they said, like you might be surprised, we understand, but we are calling you because you genuinely showed interest in our balance, learning, philosophy, and we want

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SimaShah-Primrose: franchise owners who really you know, who are really invested in our philosophies.

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SimaShah-Primrose: I just paused for a while and they said, Okay, we’re gonna fly you to Colorado and have you look at some of the primary schools, and why don’t you make a decision after that?

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SimaShah-Primrose: So I flew to Colorado. I visited 2 primary schools. But to be honest, like my 1st impression.

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SimaShah-Primrose: amazing, outstanding the facility, the cleanliness, the health and safety protocols.

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SimaShah-Primrose: classrooms meeting the owners, I was just blown away. In fact, I was like.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Wow, can this really be an early learning experience? Unimaginable, unthinkable?

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SimaShah-Primrose: By that time my daughters were already, you know in elementary grades. Right? Obviously, you know, even if I build a school, they would never get to experience Pembro schools.

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SimaShah-Primrose: But then I thought that you know our community here in South Bay or our tech capital. We are missing on this. And there are so many moms just like me in today’s world. Mom and dad both work. They want peace of mind. They want to drop their child to a place which is a second home for them, right? Because they are spending 6 to 8 h minimum at a childcare facility.

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SimaShah-Primrose: It must provide the best experience in terms of cleanliness, health, and safety protocols in terms of learning experiences also.

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SimaShah-Primrose: And that’s how my journey began for Rose. I really felt I can bring something unique to the community definitely. All parent community community will really appreciate it. Having this experience in our community having this option in our community would be a great asset.

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Anthony Codispoti: So a couple of things here. I also am very surprised that there weren’t better options available in Silicon Valley. You know people think about Silicon Valley, you know. Lots of good paying jobs, you know, parents with the ability to pay for a premier education, and you were struggling to find something that really met your needs.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Correct.

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Anthony Codispoti: Yeah. And then the other surprising thing is, so you call Primrose. And you’re like, Hey, I wanna you know, I’ve got a daughter. I wanna put her into one of your schools, and they’re like, Oh, sorry we’re not in California. We don’t plan to be in California, but for how many years you say it was 5 years or 6 years that they held on to your number, and then called you back.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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Anthony Codispoti: And and not only did they call you it wasn’t like they called you back and said, Hey, we’ve got a school now.

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Anthony Codispoti: They called you back, and they said, Hey, would you like to open a school? And you have to be like, well, I don’t have a background in early childhood education, and that didn’t seem to faze them. I mean, they were so hooked on you from the beginning, and they said.

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Anthony Codispoti: Let’s fly you down to Colorado. And and we, you know. Let’s let’s give you the grand tour, and and then you can make a decision.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yeah.

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Anthony Codispoti: Yeah, I mean, that’s all to me. That’s sort of mind boggling. I would think they’d be looking for people that had an experience in this type of industry, but they saw something in you.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yeah, absolutely. Primrose franchise owners come from diverse background. But I think they’re looking for passionate people. And probably that’s something that they

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SimaShah-Primrose: noticed in me. I’m guessing. I see now many franchise owner come from a tech background, but I never planned for it. This was never my plan. I never thought or dreamed about opening a childcare center in my life. It just happened to me, and that’s how my journey began.

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Anthony Codispoti: Okay? And so in what year did you open your 1st center.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yes, I opened my 1st center in 2,017 I signed my 1st franchise agreement in 2,013.

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Anthony Codispoti: Okay? So it took a few years from when you signed the agreement.

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Anthony Codispoti: You spent that time, maybe looking for a location building out the location getting permits. What what happened in between those few years.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yes, lot of challenges, right? Because traditional primro schools are built on a 2 acre plot, just like very beautiful locations, very beautiful construction. And all of that.

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SimaShah-Primrose: But I think once we started looking for locations in California, the reality hit. It’s very difficult to find a 2 acre plot in

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SimaShah-Primrose: Bay area right? And we kind of have to. We started our journey looking for large piece of land. We didn’t go anywhere. Then we kind of changed the parameters. We were looking for an acre plot and kind of my Willow Glen School is a double acre. It’s a 2 story school, right? So we kind of made 2 acre into one acre, and that’s how

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SimaShah-Primrose: you know. So it took a long time. Also, San Jose City permits. It took us about one and a half year to get through all the permits.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Also challenging time. I remember, in 2,016 we had quite a bit of flood in our city, so construction also we had to stall for 6 months in the in between. During the construction phase and Willow Glen was a ground up construction, so we had to go through a lot of permits from

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SimaShah-Primrose: water to gas to electricity. Everything. Took a quite a bit of time. And I think that also made me realize.

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SimaShah-Primrose: wow! In California it’s extremely challenging to open the schools. And no wonder I was struggling to find something that I was looking for. It’s a

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SimaShah-Primrose: it’s quite a bit of journey, and the work. California, is very highly regulated state. I’m sure you are aware of right. So we are constantly juggling state regulations, childcare regulations all the time, like 2 balls that I have to continuously juggle all the time.

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Anthony Codispoti: So in this 4 years, when you’re looking for land, you’re doing the build out. You’re getting the permits. Were there any certifications or education that you had to go through.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Correct. So I continued to work. You know, until 2,015 and in between, I started doing my child development classes because that would take about a year for me to finish and obtain my site. Supervisor permit. So I’ll continue to work, you know, once we receive the city permits. That’s when I stopped working, because now the construction phase was about to start.

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Anthony Codispoti: Okay. So

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Anthony Codispoti: during part of this time you kept your job in the tech industry. And then it’s a certain point. Okay, now we’re starting construction. Now, I’m gonna focus my energies on this full time.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Exactly. Yeah.

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Anthony Codispoti: And then you were able to open your doors for the 1st time in 2,017, and tell me about that process of attracting the 1st cohort of new students in.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yes, quite a bit of marketing. I did one on one I would say. I opened my school on 1st day with 77 families.

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SimaShah-Primrose: That’s a that means I would say it’s it’s big achievement in the sense that I was

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SimaShah-Primrose: actually avoid the so what premiere does is that every year, when they open the new schools.

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SimaShah-Primrose: they award the schools with highest number of occupancy within the 1st 3 months of opening, and I received that award for that particular year. So a lot of local marketing that I went through while the construction was happening. What I would do every Saturday and Sunday. Literally, I would sit in a Starbucks.

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SimaShah-Primrose: I would invite parents, one on one. I would share the knowledge about Primrose. We call it parent information meetings right. And that’s how I brought my 1st 77 parents the day we opened our school so literally 1 h, one on one. Talking about Primrose.

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SimaShah-Primrose: I think I had to create a lot of awareness about Primrose, because there was no brand awareness about Primrose like Texas, Florida. Those are Big Hub for Primrose. Everybody knows what Primrose is in California. Nobody knows Primrose.

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SimaShah-Primrose: right? So a lot of education that went through literally one on one. And for me, not coming from a childcare background. I had to. It was nerve wracking in the beginning, because

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SimaShah-Primrose: I don’t. I didn’t come with an experience of working in a childcare right? So I didn’t have. I had to learn what would be the right answers. If parents ask these questions right, and how will they relate to me how they will trust me because I come from a tech background. And now I’m saying I’m opening a premiere school.

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Anthony Codispoti: So these one on one sessions that you were doing with the parents in Starbucks. How were you meeting the parents? In the 1st place.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Right. So I had a website. By that time parents will put an inquiry. So I get their information. Then I reach out to them, I call them, and I said, Hey, thank you for your interest in our school. A majority of the parents were local, so they were seeing the construction upcoming right? So they would reach out. They would inquire about me. I would have advertisement at local restaurants shops.

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SimaShah-Primrose: You know. You know a lot of different local marketing that I did to create an awareness for schools. And they would reach out to me via school website, tour inquiry. And that’s when I reach out to them and say, Hey, let’s meet for an hour. I can share more about schools. And yeah, I mean, I had a Powerpoint presentation. We meet at the Starbucks. I go through the presentation. Yeah.

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Anthony Codispoti: That’s a that’s a lot of nose to the grindstone. That’s that’s some good hustling work, and.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yeah, a lot of yeah. I used to start at 9 o’clock and leave at 6 o’clock, and literally one after the other. Parent meeting Saturday and Sunday. That’s how it went. Sometimes I went to even parents house, because I remember we had one parent. Actually her 3 kids went through my school. Mom and Dad both were surgeons, very busy, and they say, Hey, seema, can you come to our house and do a presentation at home because we have 3 kids very busy. We are surgeons, I said. Don’t worry. I’ll come to your house.

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SimaShah-Primrose: and you know a lot of hustle. Yes.

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Anthony Codispoti: And then we’re also running online ads, was that a way that people were finding you.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yes, lot of digital marketing. Also, combination, digital local.

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Anthony Codispoti: And so you opened up what did you say? With 70 plus families.

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SimaShah-Primrose: 77 families.

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Anthony Codispoti: And what was your process for finding the teachers and the administrators to help support you when you 1st opened.

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SimaShah-Primrose: So finding the teachers, I think we were using applicant tracking system. Gosh, I don’t remember the name we are using Carrier Club now. At that time we had another applicant tracking system, so they would apply, you know, call for an interview and that’s how. And also even them. I had to sell Prembro School because I’m selling something that doesn’t even exist

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SimaShah-Primrose: right.

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Anthony Codispoti: So at that point they’re buying you.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yeah.

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Anthony Codispoti: You know, same as the brand at that point.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yes, and

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SimaShah-Primrose: absolutely.

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Anthony Codispoti: So. Tell me more about the balanced learning curriculum. I know this is something you’re really excited about. Help explain that to us.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Sure. So in early childhood education there are many different philosophies like play, based Montessori, Regio Emilia, structured, and on and on

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SimaShah-Primrose: primrose philosophy is balanced learning, where we create a blend of all these different philosophies, it’s called balanced learning, because we create a balance of child initiated activity and teacher guided activities throughout the day.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Child initiated activities. You can compare more with play based, or Montessori approach where children are allowed to select what they want to do in a day right? And again, this is extremely important, because we want to give them freedom. They must feel independent, because it just brings a confidence in them when they are selecting activities for them. But also there are times in a day

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SimaShah-Primrose: where we which are more teacher guided. For example, when it’s some music and movement, time or for preschool and prekindergarten, when it’s a literacy and math time those are little teacher. Those are teacher guided activities. But throughout the day we create this balance of child initiated teacher, guided child initiated teacher, guided activities.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Children don’t even realize that’s happening right? They just feel we are having fun, but they are having a purposeful fun because

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SimaShah-Primrose: Primrose does have an education team which consists of several different professors across the State who does the research right? We have professor who does research in steam, steam learning. We have professors who does research in physical development, and so on. And all of them contribute to primrose curriculum, balanced learning curriculum. And that’s pretty unique. And

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SimaShah-Primrose: what I like coming from a tech background is something that is very much open for innovation. Right? For example, Montessori method, Maria Montessori, 1853. What innovation is happening in Montessori philosophy, as of today? Probably not much, but primrose is constantly innovating, constantly looking at a research, and, you know, kind of blending it into the curriculum

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SimaShah-Primrose: constantly. And that is something I like about premrose philosophy also, children are different types of learners. Some are very auditory learners, some are visual learners, some are kinesthetic, more hands-on learner, and some are combination right? So any curriculum

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SimaShah-Primrose: should engage all 3 different types of learners. Right? What I like about Probrose, is that any concepts that they teach they include all 3 auditory visual as well as kinesthetic. Right? So, for auditory teacher will read a book in the beginning about the concepts, do more critical thinking questions.

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SimaShah-Primrose: She will also present lot more visuals. And then every child goes on the table and does individual hands-on activity. So somewhere, you’re going to engage all 3 different types of learner, and this is extremely important. I see that day to day happening at my school. Children are engaged and immersed. Why? Because curriculum is so comprehensive

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SimaShah-Primrose: that it is attracting all different types of students. For me it’s easier to now spot an auditory learner versus someone who is

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SimaShah-Primrose: in aesthetic learner. Right? You may feel like Charlie is not paying attention, but he’s an auditory learner. He’s listening to everything.

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SimaShah-Primrose: When you stop and ask a question. He knows what we are talking about in the.

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Anthony Codispoti: You know, as we’re talking here, seema, I’m realizing that this transition that you made from computer science into early childhood education is not as unusual as maybe I was 1st making it out in my head. Because

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Anthony Codispoti: you’re obviously a highly educated person yourself. Multiple college degrees. You worked in a very progressive. And you know, fast moving environment where you you really have to stay on top of the trends. Computer science is changing all the time. And you’re taking that sort of same

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Anthony Codispoti: passion for education in general and innovative ways of thinking and approaching things, and now applying it to early childhood education. So it really seems when we kind of frame it like that. It seems to fit very nicely.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yeah, I agree with you because I really appreciated the innovation specifically coming from tech background. And I appreciated that primrose is constantly innovating. So you’re absolutely right.

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Anthony Codispoti: So when did you decide to open your second location.

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SimaShah-Primrose: So after opening for schools about 1, 1 and a half year, we signed up for the second location. But you know

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SimaShah-Primrose: a hard reality. Stop! We were in Covid 2,020. My second location was slated to open in 2,021 right?

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SimaShah-Primrose: But covid was really hard time. We had to navigate covid for my 1st school. Right? Because this is early learning, education. We are not elementary grades. Who can go remote.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Right. So lot of innovation I had to come up with how to survive in Covid

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SimaShah-Primrose: and then

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SimaShah-Primrose: tail end of 2021,

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SimaShah-Primrose: you know, we decided, okay, I think we survived. Well.

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SimaShah-Primrose: now, let’s focus on the next location and the second school we open in April of 2022, but again challenging time. Because you’re opening the school still in Covid. Right? Parents are still skeptical, and for the younger ones, for example, 2 year olds right. I have to convince those parents whose child was actually born in Covid 2020

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SimaShah-Primrose: right? So a very different type of convincing took place than when I opened my 1st location. Why, Primrose is a safe choice. Why, you can put your child in a second school.

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SimaShah-Primrose: I had to do everything right for my 1st school

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SimaShah-Primrose: during Covid, so I can get that trust from the parent

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SimaShah-Primrose: for the second school.

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Anthony Codispoti: Was there any point during Covid, while you’re working on that new location where you thought about shifting gears and just saying, you know what

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Anthony Codispoti: we’re gonna skip the second location. I’m not sure how this is gonna turn out.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Not at all, not at all right. Again, as I told you.

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SimaShah-Primrose: you know it’s not my personality. I just feel like, you know, tough times do pass by, but the tough people do always last.

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SimaShah-Primrose: So I’m that person. I never thought about closing it, like, you know, just not do the second school, I think at that time, during Covid time, my focus was just Covid, and we log in school because it was very challenging.

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SimaShah-Primrose: You know, never thought about it. Suddenly, next day my school closed right, because we had so many regulations from county

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SimaShah-Primrose: only 1st responders, parent children can come to school. You know. I see parents calling me left and right throughout the day. Okay, what are we going to do? My child is at home. Blah blah. And I had to take a pause. And I said, Okay, let’s try online learning right?

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SimaShah-Primrose: Never thought about it. Even Primrose corporate did not have a protocol for online learning. So I sat down with my education coach in a day. We design an online learning curriculum.

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Anthony Codispoti: In a.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Next in a day like, literally, we sat down and we said, Okay, let’s just slice it. Let’s start with the morning curriculum in the morning.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Second, 3rd day we just did a dry run right for our preschool and pre Kindergarten 3 and 4 year olds.

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SimaShah-Primrose: and we received a very positive feedback from the parents when we did a drive in, because literally, children were very excited to see their teachers on the zoom right, and also seeing their other friends on the zoom

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SimaShah-Primrose: right? And from 4th day onwards we just continued with online curriculum. The challenge were, was children below 2 years old?

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SimaShah-Primrose: Right, because really, at that time parents do not want to have a screen time for their children.

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Anthony Codispoti: Hmm.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Right. So what do we do? How do we stay connected with the parents? How do we keep them engaged?

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SimaShah-Primrose: So what we did is we did lot of recordings. In the classroom with the teachers. Like, teacher is doing activity, music and movement or wonder time. One wonder time, 2 activities. We recorded those, and we send it to parents at home. Right? Just for children to watch.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Interesting enough, surprising enough. Children were engaged because they know their teacher

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SimaShah-Primrose: right? They were.

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Anthony Codispoti: It does surprise me.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yeah, yeah, it did surprise me, too. They were

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SimaShah-Primrose: very.

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SimaShah-Primrose: very like, you know, excited to see their teacher in the classroom.

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SimaShah-Primrose: So it did, and then we did a lot of improvising on it where I have had my teachers record the story times, and we would send those recordings to parents so that they can, you know, play it at night. During nighttime they can hear their children telling the story. So we continued to innovate. We did innovation in the events also. We created, literally the activity packets every week to send home for children.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Right? So parents will come, pick up the packet, do it at home with their children. And that’s how we survived. And slowly, slowly, we started

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SimaShah-Primrose: inviting children based on the regulation come to school, and you know we rammed up by.

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SimaShah-Primrose: I remember by

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SimaShah-Primrose: September of 2021, I think we had about 70 or 80% families who were attending, and I was able to keep pretty much. I would say, more than 99% of my families before I closed. All of them returned.

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SimaShah-Primrose: So that that was a great. I think my team did a great job in continuously keeping the parents engaged through online activities by sending packets home. Even we used to create event packets to send home

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SimaShah-Primrose: for children.

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Anthony Codispoti: Were you able to charge either full or partial tuition to families while you were doing the online learning.

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SimaShah-Primrose: So for online learning, we did a partial charging about 60 to 70%. And then gradually they started coming.

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SimaShah-Primrose: coming back online. So absolutely. It was a partial, charging.

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Anthony Codispoti: Well, and this was probably another area where your tech background was helpful. You weren’t afraid of

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Anthony Codispoti: the technology. We’re quite familiar and comfortable with it. Yeah.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Absolutely. And my team was also like, Okay, what is she going to do now? Because they were scared about their job? Literally like, what’s going to happen? Am I going to lose my job or not? Right? And once we started with online program, my director was like, Seema, I sell you to from today. Like, how well you executed the online pro program. I never thought we will be able to do it. And I said, Yeah, absolutely. All of us did this together.

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Anthony Codispoti: So you became sort of a test case

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Anthony Codispoti: within primrose for people to look.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yeah, and say, here’s something.

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Anthony Codispoti: Absolutely.

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SimaShah-Primrose: And yeah, and absolutely. Then I started spreading it to my neighboring primrose schools. Right? I started sharing my template like, how can you also implement the similar way? So couple of schools at that time we had Primrose School of Livermore pleasant and open and then I even shared like I would let them log in. You know, in my online sessions their teacher can see how my teachers are executing the online curriculum.

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SimaShah-Primrose: I shared all the tablets with them. And that’s how they even continue to run online program for their Pembrose families.

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Anthony Codispoti: And I think you mentioned before we went. Live on this interview that you were recently speaking at a national primrose event. Was it on something tech related or something else.

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SimaShah-Primrose: So completely different. So I also, I’m part of Ecc. I don’t know if you have heard of. It’s early care and education consortium

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SimaShah-Primrose: and they do advocacy programs for per state, I mean, per state. So primrose, I represent all primrose schools in the State of California for advocacy programs through Ecec. So what we usually do is Ecc. Is very engaged and active in all child care bills that the Government is currently working on.

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SimaShah-Primrose: For example, you must have heard of Universal Pre Kindergarten, the State Bill, Ab. 130, that was passed in 2021. So now we have a transitional kindergarten, which is a public program for 4 year old.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Right? So I was heavily invested. Because I just feel like, you know, we just started writing the Covid wave. We were still surviving the Covid wave in 2020. And then suddenly the bill, 1, 30, became a reality.

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SimaShah-Primrose: and it has severely impacted the revenue of many community providers for a 4 year old programs. Right? In Covid. We heard a lot of childcare centers closed. It’s very disheartening to see that.

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SimaShah-Primrose: And then, you know, with the new wave of Universal Pre Pre Kindergarten, I see it has created

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SimaShah-Primrose: unexpected and unintended impact on many childcare providers. Right? So. You know, I have done a lot of advocacy work. For example, I’ve been to state capital to meet Senators and Assembly members to educate them on the impact of transitional kindergarten. Right? And we are currently advocating for mixed delivery programs. So through mixed delivery programs.

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SimaShah-Primrose: what we are looking forward to is that even the private providers are allowed

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SimaShah-Primrose: to participate in the public system, so that way.

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Anthony Codispoti: Haven’t heard this yet.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yeah, yeah, so we are, we are working on it. I think couple of states have implemented mixed delivery programs. For example, Colorado is a win for Ecc for mixed delivery programs.

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SimaShah-Primrose: So with the mixed delivery program, what will happen is every parent of a 4 year old will have a choice whether they want to opt for a public program or opt for

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SimaShah-Primrose: private 4 year old program throughout your system.

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Anthony Codispoti: And will there be any opportunity for the Government to contribute to the funding of that through the private sector?

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SimaShah-Primrose: So funding would be in terms of providing vouchers to parents right? They can spend it at you know, private programs. If that works out for them, because many of the transitional kindergarten programs are half day only they may not work out for full time. Parents? I also heard stories where

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SimaShah-Primrose: many schools don’t even have after school programs. So child spends 3 h in the morning in a Tk program and the child has to be burst to another location, for after school program

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SimaShah-Primrose: may not be the right choice for a 4 year old, because, you know, 4 years are 4 year old they are not ready for elementary grades yet. Right? In, you know, I’ve like a lot of rebound effects. I have seen as well in terms of elementary classroom setups are different. Child, not being able to push a bathroom door and all of that.

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SimaShah-Primrose: So yeah, I mean, I have been actively engaged in advocacy work. We are also working on couple of other things, for example, improvising our State licensing process

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SimaShah-Primrose: in the State of California. So at the National Conference. Yes, absolutely. I

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SimaShah-Primrose: I was talking about the advocacy work that I have done in the past 4 years in our State of California.

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Anthony Codispoti: This information about the what you call it. Mixed delivery program for the transitional kindergarten is really promising. I’ve talked to a lot of owners of childcare centers in California. And this is a big problem. A lot of them have lost a rather significant portion of their student population. If you were to guess. What would you think the timeline is for some of these changes coming in.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Well, at the moment, I would say in general advocacy, programs are very slow. Right? The expansion timeline for transitional kindergarten was from 2,020 to 2,02526, right? So it’s still in progress. It’s hard to put a timeline when this will be a reality. Specifically. Now, we have a lot of budget constraints in the State of California.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yeah.

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Anthony Codispoti: Well, hopefully, there’s more good news to come on that front. I know that that would positively affect a lot of childcare centers there in California.

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SimaShah-Primrose: And to be honest, not all of us who who are private providers, we need funding for infrastructure, because we already have those infrastructure. We already have classrooms for 4 year old.

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Anthony Codispoti: Right. And this is something that I’ve heard from. A lot of folks who own a child care center is

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Anthony Codispoti: yeah. The State wanted to take this over. But they didn’t have the teachers. They didn’t have the facilities ready for this. We have those things right, took our kids and move them somewhere else, and they’re not ready for it. They’re not set up for it. They’re not getting the education and the support that they need.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yeah. And those children are not ready to sit on a bench and do the worksheets. They are more play based right? They thrive in experience based environment which we can provide. Our program is very quality.

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SimaShah-Primrose: You know, high quality program.

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Anthony Codispoti: No.

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Anthony Codispoti: I’m curious, you know you you open the one center and you you had it fully staffed there at the beginning, and you open a second center and you were able to staff that. Now you’ve got 2 more centers that are coming, you know, roughly, in the next year or so.

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Anthony Codispoti: It’s still, from what everybody’s telling me, a pretty tight labor market. I’m curious what it is that you’re doing so well to find good folks, and to hold on to them. What are some strategies that you have found work to recruit and retain folks.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Sure. I think that’s yes, as I mentioned, we. I get majority of my talent through carrier plug, right and through carrier plug we do posting on all different job boards. Indeed, glassdoor like you name it Google jobs. And all of that.

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SimaShah-Primrose: then identifying right candidate is extremely important.

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SimaShah-Primrose: right? Because I want to hire someone who is really passionate about childcare field right? To be a teacher in a childcare environment. Yes, you have to have certain units right, and some many times I get a resume from where they they didn’t have a time to complete those units, but they do have an experience working in childcare centers. Right?

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SimaShah-Primrose: The. And I would take them. Why? Because they have been working in a childcare for last couple of years right? They still continue to

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SimaShah-Primrose: come back to that field in the sense that they’re still looking for a job in the same field. Right? I could have a teacher with a bachelor’s degree.

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SimaShah-Primrose: But you know many times I hire new teachers. I’m very upfront and open about them. That great. You have a childcare education and background. But I know you’re young, just like when I was young I was exploring myself what I really want to do. And it’s okay to have that. You know. This is the time you should have it.

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SimaShah-Primrose: So I give them different opportunities as support teacher, and so on. And I see them for next 6 to one year, like what kind of passion that they are showing? I think most important thing is anyone having the growth mindset right? And it’s easy to see that once they start working right, how much engaged they are, what initiatives they are taking, and so on

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SimaShah-Primrose: so different ways I pass my resumes. Some come with all the units lot of education, a lot of experience, a lot of experience is important to me, because it just talks about their passion.

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SimaShah-Primrose: right? Because you have done something for 3, 4 years or 5 years, and you’re still looking for a job in the same area. That means you really like what you’re doing. Otherwise you cannot survive in this field for next for the last 5 years. And you’re still looking for a job right for the newcomers. 1st time coming into a childcare. I have a very different approach. Right? I give them different opportunities, and you know I’m always assessing their interests.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Whether this is the field for them or not. Right, and sometimes they, her teacher, without any background, and we cultivate them into great teachers

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SimaShah-Primrose: to me if they don’t have a childcare units. Yes, we do have premiere trainings, and then I immediately enroll them in the university and colleges. I pay for their tuition.

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Anthony Codispoti: Wow!

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SimaShah-Primrose: Even while they are working they can continue to finish their education because a lot of the time challenge for them is they are even still struggling to pay the rent. They don’t have extra dollar to go to Community college and pay for their education.

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SimaShah-Primrose: So I have an Hr. Person. You know she just takes care of all the training.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Oh.

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SimaShah-Primrose: for the teacher as well as making sure they are completing their units also. You know, by going to community, college, or any online programs. So I cultivate them on my team. I have an education coach who

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SimaShah-Primrose: constantly constantly work with them one on one right as soon as I hire them for the 1st week. They don’t even go to the classrooms right? They finish all the trainings right?

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SimaShah-Primrose: Second week. I have my education, hold their hand and sit down with them. And more like, okay.

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SimaShah-Primrose: you learned all these things online. Let’s let’s put it into implementation. Right? I want to make sure I provide them the right tool before they go in the classroom, because if they don’t have the right tool to be successful in the classroom. I’ll set them up for the failure on the 1st day. I tell them. Okay, go in the classroom and figure everything out. It just doesn’t work in childcare and lot of the turnover that happens in a childcare

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SimaShah-Primrose: like I did a lot of studies, because, as you see, my background is very different. Right in engineering, the national turnover rate is about 10%, right? But when you come to childcare it’s 35%. And sometimes it just goes beyond that right, depending on, you know, external event that’s happening around, for example, Covid.

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SimaShah-Primrose: So for me, it was a big adjustment period right to learn that, like intact, I wouldn’t change. Like usually people stay around for 2 years to 4 years. They wait for their stock options to waste before they move on to the next job. They think about a lot of things. Okay, what kind of company I’m going for, what technology they work on what like, what new skill level I’m going to build by, you know, changing this job. So there’s a lot of thinking that goes behind before changing a job

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SimaShah-Primrose: in childcare. It’s not similar. Right? So then, I did a lot of research on why this is happening in the childcare field

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SimaShah-Primrose: right? And 3 things that I came up with. Number one is the stress in the job.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Number 2 is advancement opportunities. And number 3 is obviously this is not a high paying job. Right? So compensation is the key.

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SimaShah-Primrose: But at the same time, yes.

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SimaShah-Primrose: I was thinking, Yeah, I understand all these things. But there are. There are folks who want to be in childcare. They want to work in childcare. Why do they want to work in a childcare field?

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SimaShah-Primrose: They want to work because of the emotional benefit right

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SimaShah-Primrose: that they get from this profession. They are the ones who wants to work with children. They really like working with children. Compensation is very tangible, I would say, because I can easily fix it, providing competitive salary, providing the best benefits right? But other than that, how do we work on the stress level, because that is extremely important. It doesn’t matter the compensation, you know, the best benefits. That’s not the only thing that’s going to keep them around

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SimaShah-Primrose: right? The other is, how do we work with the stress? Right? How we can reduce teacher stress. So lot of things for stress, as I told you before they go into the classroom. We give them a lot of training period. We want to send them to the classroom with the right tool

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SimaShah-Primrose: right, and on top of that, like usually childcare Center runs with one director, one assistant director. But I have 3 to 4 assistant directors in my school

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SimaShah-Primrose: right? Why are they around? They are there to help teachers

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SimaShah-Primrose: right? Every teacher has a walkie with them. They are in the classroom. They are in ratio. If they need any help.

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SimaShah-Primrose: call us on Walkie. Somebody would step in and help you.

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SimaShah-Primrose: It could be as simple as I’m just so frustrated with this child. Okay, no, doesn’t matter. Just go. Take a 10 min break. I’ll work with the child right? So for them, knowing that we have that support, it goes a long way, and that’s constantly I get as a feedback from my teacher. I love to work here because of the support I receive

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SimaShah-Primrose: working in this environment where we are not running.

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SimaShah-Primrose: The way, like, okay. My director is already in a ratio in the classroom, or my assistant directors are in a ratio. Yes, it does happen when tough times, like flu season, we have 5, 6 call outs, because, you know, teachers are sick. Those are the days they may happen, but majority of the time my director and 3 to 4 assistant directors are outside. They are on the ground, and their job is to help the teachers constantly.

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Anthony Codispoti: You know I I love so much of what you just said. There, seema there’s it shows a real dedication to your employees. Mental health, their happiness.

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SimaShah-Primrose: You know.

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Anthony Codispoti: Do you help them with the stress of the job? You talked a lot about the investments that you make in educating them, providing the paying for the education for them. Those people who are interested in.

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Anthony Codispoti: you know, sort of making those advancements in their career. And I have to think you know this is a big part of why you’ve been so successful with your primrose franchises, and you know, as we think about sort of the success of the business, you know, obviously, to keep your doors open.

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Anthony Codispoti: You gotta keep an eye on the bottom line, right? That profit and loss statement. You’re not running a a charity. And so, you know, as business owners, there’s sort of 2 levers that we can pull to to affect that. It’s like we can do something creative to increase sales. We can do something creative to, you know, decrease expenses as you think about those 2 levers. There any stories come to mind about particularly interesting things that you’ve tried along those.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s very common to think what you’re saying when I’m telling what I do for my staff. But, truly speaking, what I teach my leadership team is, we have 2 customers, parent and staff. Both are our customers, and we must pay attention to both.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Because childcare is all about trust.

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SimaShah-Primrose: We want happy parents. And what do parents want? They want happy teachers.

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SimaShah-Primrose: right? If teachers are happy, they can. You know, it’s important. Teachers are happy, they are engaged. They are doing activities throughout the day with the children in the classroom.

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SimaShah-Primrose: If the child is happy, parent is happy, so it’s a circle. I treat my parents and staff both as customer. Staff has to be happy if I’m experiencing constant turnover and struggling with the retention. Ultimately my parents are not going to be happy

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SimaShah-Primrose: right.

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Anthony Codispoti: Makes a lot.

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SimaShah-Primrose: So it’s it’s it’s and again it goes back to, as you’re saying, when we think about monetary aspect. When I do tuition increase year over year. Right? I’m able to do it because I have that trust from the parents. My retention rate for the parent is.

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SimaShah-Primrose: you know, more than 95%. Most of the time I lose parents, not because they are not happy with the program.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Most cases they are moving out of the area, or their children are graduating from pre kindergarten and heading to elementary school. And that’s exactly what I want. If I’m losing my teacher, not because they do not like the program

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SimaShah-Primrose: again, some external factors that they are moving and leaving my school. So it’s all about service excellence.

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SimaShah-Primrose: providing better services to parents and providing good services to staff.

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Anthony Codispoti: Yeah, I think what you just said about not losing many parents other than they’re moving out of the area. Or the kids are graduating says a lot about the quality of the program that you’re building there.

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Anthony Codispoti: I want to ship.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yeah, and absolutely. And even if I lost parents to Tk programs, right?

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SimaShah-Primrose: Not a single parents have complained that you don’t have a Tk program or anything like that. It’s always like we love your school. We love your curriculum, but I do understand that. You know I’m competing against something that is free.

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SimaShah-Primrose: And also I can understand parents mindset that. Okay. Now, it’s not K to 12, but tk, to 12 as elementary grade. So they may think. Okay, my child starts a 3 k program and he’s going to, or she’s going to be lifelong friends that’s going to survive in elementary grades. Right? So parents have not left because they have been unhappy.

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Anthony Codispoti: Let’s shift gears for a moment. See my would love to hear about maybe a particular challenge, either personally or professionally, that you went through how you overcame that, and some of the lessons that you learned coming through the other side.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Lots of challenges. Right?

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Anthony Codispoti: How do I pick one.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Lots of challenges not to pick one from right, coming from a very different background, going into a very different field, opening a childcare center, like, you know. For me, personally, I never managed this. Many employees. Right? You know, lots of learning in terms of labor laws in terms of hr, let’s lots of learning in providing service. Excellence to parents.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Teacher. Even learning about this high turnover rate was a big challenge for me, right? But I think the key is. As long as you’re committed you are striving for improvement and you’re dedicated. It’s okay to fail. But learn from your failure and think about how you’re going to do it better next.

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SimaShah-Primrose: It. It boils down back to Covid Times, which I just mentioned to you how challenging they were

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SimaShah-Primrose: then we had universal pre kindergarten or transitional kindergarten. Again, another challenge.

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SimaShah-Primrose: But if you’re committed, if you’re passionate, you know.

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SimaShah-Primrose: for sure you’re going to overcome.

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Anthony Codispoti: Great seem. I just have one more question for you, but before I ask it I want to let people know the best way to get in touch with you. What would that be?

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SimaShah-Primrose: Lots of ways emails phone. I only have one phone, because, you know, I don’t carry multiple phones. Like my 2 daughters also have the same number. I wanna make sure that I’m always reachable.

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SimaShah-Primrose: So phone email, you know, those are the best way to reach at me.

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Anthony Codispoti: What’s the email address.

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SimaShah-Primrose: So they can.

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Anthony Codispoti: Reach you out.

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SimaShah-Primrose: So

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SimaShah-Primrose: excuse me.

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SimaShah-Primrose: I have 2 emails. You can jot down any one of them. See my psvilogline.com.

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Anthony Codispoti: And we’ll be sure to put that in the show notes, folks.

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Anthony Codispoti: So last question I have for you seema is, I’m kind of curious to get your take on it, especially with, you know the involvement that you have with some of the national organizations. I think you would have a good perspective on this. What are some of the big changes that you see are coming to the childcare industry here in the next few years?

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SimaShah-Primrose: I think transitional kindergarten is a game changer. I think we

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SimaShah-Primrose: all most childcare providers would look into serving more younger age group children

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SimaShah-Primrose: right

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SimaShah-Primrose: unless mixed delivery becomes a reality in our State.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Right? So we would be looking into

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SimaShah-Primrose: serving more younger age group children, maybe 0 to 4 year olds right? So current providers I already know they are changing their infrastructure right to serve more younger children right. And that’s a trend that has started since 2023, and I think that will stay for next couple of years.

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Anthony Codispoti: And I think that’s a bit challenging. I don’t think everybody realizes that providing infant care is considerably more expensive than it is for the older kids. Just because of the state mandated ratios, you have to have

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Anthony Codispoti: more employees per number of students which raises the cost of that care, and parents are already struggling to pay, you know, for some of those older kids.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yeah, you’re absolutely right because of the instruction introduction. Excuse me, can I just take.

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Anthony Codispoti: Yeah. Transitional kindergarten is. It’s a game changer. It’s it’s introduced. A lot of wrinkles in different ways. Go ahead.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Absolutely, and I have written a white paper on unintended consequences of transitional kindergarten, if you like. I can share it with you.

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SimaShah-Primrose: but absolutely right. It has created impact on providers as well as families and children.

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SimaShah-Primrose: all of us right? Because it’s just not the providers, but families and children as well.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Everybody is impacted as you were mentioning. Providers are forced to serve more younger age group because of the stringent teacher. Child ratio requirements. You know, we are increasing the tuition. So it’s putting additional burden on the families.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Right? Also, even the staff. They are worried. You know about their job. Right? Is my pro. If, like, my school is going to close down the Pre kindergarten program, what will happen to their job? Am I going to have to teach more younger age groups? Should I look for a job outside, like, you know, those are the impact on the staff.

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SimaShah-Primrose: And he like, you know, I think.

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SimaShah-Primrose: across the board serving more 2 and 3 year olds

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SimaShah-Primrose: in terms of profitability. Maybe it’s a workable solution, but serving younger than 2, because ratios are one to 4 compared to one to 12 ratios. I think more and more childcare will see in the next upcoming year, serving more twos and threes.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Yeah.

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Anthony Codispoti: Seema. I want to be the 1st one to thank you for sharing both your time and your story with us today. I really appreciate it.

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SimaShah-Primrose: Okay, okay, thank you.