Anthony Codispoti (00:00)
Welcome to another edition of the inspired stories podcast where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired by how they’ve overcome adversity. My name is Anthony Cotaspodi and today’s guest is Carl Bachman, president and chief operating officer of Rico’s Pizza. Based in Stamford, Connecticut, Rico’s is known for its thin, crisp pies, high quality ingredients and a warm neighborhood dining vibe.

Over the years, they have expanded through franchising and are now a growing presence in the food and beverage industry. Carl brings a wealth of hospitality expertise, having led major brands like BurgerFi and Smash Burger through significant growth. At BurgerFi, he served as CEO, guiding the company to new heights. While at Smash Burger, he oversaw operations as president. His background in real estate selection, construction, and team building

has helped transform these brands into beloved dining destinations. Now at Rico’s, Carl aims to continue that legacy focusing on quality, expansion, and a remarkable guest experience. He has a proven track record of driving sales and building strong teams, making him a perfect fit for the brand’s future ambitions. Now, before we get into all that good stuff, today’s episode is brought to you by my company, Ad Back Benefits Agency.

where we offer very specific and unique employee benefits that are both great for your team and fiscally optimized for your bottom line. Imagine being able to give your employees free access to doctors, therapists, and prescription medications. And here’s the fun part. The program actually puts more money in your employees’ pockets and the company’s too. One recent client was able to increase net profits by $900 per employee per year.

Results vary for each company and some organizations may not be eligible. To find out if your company qualifies, contact us today at addbackbenefits.com. All right, back to our guest today, President and COO of Ricoh’s Pizza, Carl Bachman. Thanks for making the time to share your story today.

Carl Bachmann (02:05)
thanks. Honored to be here.

Anthony Codispoti (02:07)
So Carl, you’ve been in the food and beverage industry for three decades now. What initially drew you in?

Carl Bachmann (02:15)
I think, well, I kind of grew up working in restaurants and I think it was the adrenaline junkie that I am. Played a lot of sports when I was a kid and when I couldn’t play sports anymore, I kind of think someone was missing. And that ability to work in a restaurant on a busy Friday night, the clang of the plates and the crowds and the excitement, to me it was like an adrenaline rush and I realized that this is what I love to do. So I’ve been doing it ever since.

Anthony Codispoti (02:40)
You just like the energy of all the activity that’s taking place there and the hustle and the bustle.

Carl Bachmann (02:45)
Yeah,

there’s something special about that energy and excitement. And there’s something ⁓ for me heartwarming about serving somebody. ⁓ I started out in restaurant business, washing dishes and cooking and serving. And ⁓ there’s a lot of satisfaction in seeing someone have a great experience and pride in taking care of somebody. And it creates joy. And ⁓ that’s kind of a nice way to…

to live your life. Giving a little joy to somebody else in a simple way. Something is a good meal or just a random acts of kindness.

Anthony Codispoti (03:19)
I love that. Any random acts of kindness you can remember from some of your earlier dining escapades? Something that you did maybe to kind of go above and beyond for the guest?

Carl Bachmann (03:33)
Yeah, I, I, at one point, uh, we had a guest come in, uh, to one of the restaurants. Um, this is years ago with a different business. Uh, guests came in and, uh, was upset. It was a regular guest, um, because her daughter’s wedding, um, was that weekend and the caterer was in a home wedding backyard type wedding and the caterer went bankrupt and disappeared. And so there was no way to do the wedding.

And she was in a panic and they didn’t know what to do and they were going to cancel the wedding. And this was on Friday night. The wedding was on Sunday. ⁓ so I offered to do the wedding for them and, she, she didn’t really believe we could pull it off. She didn’t really believe we would do it. Yeah. Yeah. And it was a great, it was a lot of fun. got with my team and my management team. I was a franchisee at the time of a big brand. And, I said, listen, we got to take care of this regular guest. We’ve got to find a way.

Anthony Codispoti (04:16)
Is that like 36 hours notice?

Carl Bachmann (04:31)
So I said, give me the menu and we created the menu and we did an off-premise ⁓ catering event wedding and we did a wedding for over 100 people. And we did it in less than a day or less, but I think you’re right, maybe 30 hours. And it was a huge success and it was very rewarding for everybody. Even everybody on my team was rewarded because they knew what we were doing.

Anthony Codispoti (04:53)
That’s incredible. I mean, the logistics of that, you you weren’t planning for this. You’ve got to have food on hand for, you know, the raw materials for 100 people. You’ve got to have the staff to prep it and the staff to serve it. How did you pull all it together so quickly?

Carl Bachmann (05:09)
At the time I owned 10 restaurants. I had the staff, I had the people, we could prep everything. The real logistic challenge was creating, building a kitchen on site. Cause there was, we had to build a commercial kitchen on site. So renting equipment, buying equipment, last minute, that was the real challenge, but we figured it out. actually it’s funny after we did it, my team came to me and said, we can do this. And we started doing a lot of catering as a result of that. And I actually started a catering company years later based on that.

based on that exact weekend. So that to me may be one of the most rewarding things we ever did.

Anthony Codispoti (05:45)
That’s a really cool story. All right. So let’s move forward a little bit because we want to spend most of our time on RICO’s. But before we get there, I want to hear a little bit about your time at Smash Burger and BurgerFi because you were there through guiding the companies through some pretty impressive growth. As you think first about Smash Burger, what was that biggest growth lever you were able to pull while you were there?

Carl Bachmann (06:07)
I think at Smash, was really ⁓ organizing the operation side of the business. We had a founder there that was iconic in the industry, genius really, that did a great job creating ⁓ credible menu items. But what they really needed was structure and organization, team, process. So I built like a set of pillars or foundational pillars of how you run a business. That’s really where I designed my strategy that I’ve used ever since, ⁓ is how do you design?

a strategy to manage a business, multiple locations across multiple countries even. So to get some consistency in the brand. And to me, that was the biggest challenge. Of course, a couple of years into it, and when I took over as president of the company, it was just a few months before COVID. So then there was a whole myriad of new challenges. But really, once you have foundational pillars that we put together, I think that was a

That was the big challenge and that’s how we were able to kind of structure Smash Burger for growth ⁓ and really structure it to be sold to the new entity that purchased it.

Anthony Codispoti (07:16)
⁓ Can you say more about that structure and that strategy that you were figuring out and putting in place that you still use today?

Carl Bachmann (07:23)
Absolutely. There’s five, you know, I think when you build anything, build a big building or a house, the foundation’s like the most important thing, right? Everything lies on that foundation. So for me, these pillars are foundational pieces had to be in place. And I think there’s really five basic foundational pillars in the restaurant business. And I guess I’ve learned this over doing this for 30 years plus, but number one, and it’s always number one, and I know it’s going to sound corny or trite.

but there’s a reason why it’s cliche is people. I call it infrastructure, but that’s just a fancy, you know, $64,000 word for people. So to me is, is, is having the right team with the right skillset, building a team of people that compliment each other, creating a culture where the team’s first, having a servant type of leadership style. So to me, number one pillar is definitely infrastructure. Number two, it’s taste and quality.

I think so many restaurant chains ⁓ really compromise on those things because of cost. And I think that’s the recipe for failure in the end. So for me, taste and quality. having something that’s flavor forward, high quality ingredients, things are expensive today’s world and they have been for many decades and they’re just getting more expensive. So you have to deliver quality. ⁓ So that to me that

That’s ⁓ number two. Number three is defining the portfolio. And for me, that comes down to picking the right locations, ⁓ putting in the right platform to execute your business, and really have the right four wall ambiance for the business. it’s inside and outside the four walls ⁓ is step three. Step four is process, what I call gold standards, that fourth pillar. It’s having great processes so you can duplicate that effort over and over and over again.

So identifying your standards, identifying your processes to deliver on those standards over and over again. And then I think step five is tell the world it’s your marketing approach, you know, and if you don’t have step those first four pillars, you’re not ready for step five. ⁓ so, and I always like to say, I used to run, you know, small to medium companies that we always got a punch above our weight. And so utilizing the most current media, digital media, social media, word of mouth.

guest experience, to me, those are the five pillars. again, really simple, right people, right product, right? The right location, the right process, and then tell the world about it.

Anthony Codispoti (10:06)
So that first pillar, people, what is your approach to hiring and retention?

Carl Bachmann (10:13)
I think, I think for us at Rico’s, but really my whole career, I’ve always believed in the passion of people. ⁓ I think you have to have a passion in this business. You have to love what you do. You know, raising a bunch of kids. I’ve always told them that if they, if they are searching for the right job, you know, and they’re searching just for the right paycheck, they’re always going to fall short. We always want to make more money, but if they shoot for something that they love,

and they’re passionate about, they’ll be happy and the money will come. So I think when you’re finding and ⁓ choosing people, that’s the philosophy I take is somebody who’s passionate about service, passionate about other people, ⁓ big personality, people that are just passionate about each other. And I think ⁓ if you hire the right attitude, you can train the skill. It’s not rocket science what we do. It’s very important what we do, but it’s not rocket science. I think that’s really what it comes down to, growing people’s about attitude.

Anthony Codispoti (11:01)
Yeah.

How do you determine if the

attitude is a good connect during that hiring process?

Carl Bachmann (11:16)
I’m sorry, say again.

Anthony Codispoti (11:17)
The you’re talking about, you know, if you hire the right attitude, you can teach the skills. So how do you determine if the attitude is right during that hiring process?

Carl Bachmann (11:26)
I think in the restaurant space, it’s service industry. So we’re serving others, which is something that either you love or you hate. So I think you find out right then and there that they have a servant type attitude, ⁓ even down to how they make ⁓ eye contact, how they speak, how they talk. Do they put their head down? they look straight in your eye? So I think there’s a lot of cues. ⁓ But most importantly, I’m looking for passionate people.

You know, a lot of management will tell you we need to hire people with experience. And I don’t necessarily believe in that. I think we need to hire people with passion. And if they’re passionate about anything, they’re passionate about their family, or they’re passionate about their past job, or they’re passionate about their school, or they’re passionate about their team, you know, or their sport. ⁓ I feel like anybody who has a strong passion for something and you see them light up. So when I’m interviewing people and meeting people,

That’s what I’m looking for. What are they passionate about? Learning about them. And as soon as I can click on that and find that passion point, then I know they have something in them. They have that energy. That’s the kind of people you hire.

Anthony Codispoti (12:32)
And you can

figure out a way to awaken it in the work environment there too.

Carl Bachmann (12:36)
100%. As long as they’re passionate about something, and people are excited about whatever it is in their lives, and they want to talk about it, those are the people you want to, you can train them and get them excited about our business.

Anthony Codispoti (12:50)
What was something you learned at BurgerFi that you’re able to apply to Ricos today?

Carl Bachmann (12:55)
At BurgerFi, think BurgerFi was a very challenging business. It was a restructure reorganization, taking it through bankruptcy. So I learned a lot taking a company through bankruptcy. You know, when I got there, it was pretty insolvent and my job was to really kind of get us through a restructure and a reorganization. And I think, I think probably I personally learned the most about humility.

is that sometimes I can’t fix everything ⁓ and choose what I can fix and do the best by the people and try to set them up for success in their next lives, in their next future, in their next careers. So that’s probably the biggest thing I learned is it’s all about the human element of the business. ⁓ So sometimes you have to know when to say when and sell the company and move on and restructure. And other times you rebuild. ⁓

In this case, there needed to be new ownership, there needed to be new structure. So again, I think the biggest learning was how do I set these people up so that they can successfully take the brand if they stay or whatever they do in the future, set them up for success. That’s probably my biggest learning out of that.

Anthony Codispoti (14:07)
So what was behind the decision to join Rico’s small, up-and-coming pizza chain?

Carl Bachmann (14:13)
Well, ⁓ I met Rico himself. ⁓ They came to me about ⁓ his vision for this dream, for this company. ⁓ And I actually told them, no, you’re too small. I don’t do that. I do reorganizations and restructures. ⁓ that’s what I’ve been doing for the last 15 years is kind of trying to do turnarounds of companies and take people through those hard times. And Rico was convinced ⁓ that I was the right fit for him. ⁓

And he really showed me something special when I toured his restaurants. He flew down to Florida where I was living and took me out to dinner. And we spent three hours just talking about the things I just mentioned. What makes you, what makes you passionate about life? do you, you know, why do you do what you do? You know, what your background is. And we talked with each other about it. And I realized he had such a passion for this business and his people and his team. and, and he, he built something that was really unique and,

So that’s really why ⁓ I chose to take this chance and do this. And I’ve never seen a family run business where people are so excited about their brand, excited about their product, so involved in the community. So I think the moral compass was true north and that really made me feel good about it. And so I was excited to work with really good people.

Anthony Codispoti (15:35)
What is it that they’re doing there that’s so special?

Carl Bachmann (15:39)
I think we, well, first of all, our pizza is different. It’s a thin crust pizza. And that maybe doesn’t sound so different, but it really is. It’s very light. It’s very crisp. ⁓ It’s different in that sense. It’s been around, if you’ve ever heard of like a bar pie or a Gatavran style pizza, that’s what it is, like a tavern pie, but they’ve really perfected the process. So Rico found a way to take the ⁓ pizza and be consistent about it.

He engineered an incredible ⁓ process for making our pizza from the dough right to the cut table where he cut and sliced the pizza. I think what’s unique about it is kids love our pizza. It’s light. Families love our pizza. We have a whole line of salad pizzas, which is unique ⁓ with what we do. What is a salad pizza? Salad pizzas are great. So. ⁓

Anthony Codispoti (16:26)
It’s a salad pizza.

Carl Bachmann (16:33)
We have all kinds of different salad pizzas. So instead of just putting salad on a pizza, we do what we call an elevated crust. So we built out these elevated crusts. So for instance, we do a chicken Caesar salad pizza. So it’s a chicken Caesar salad on a pizza crust ⁓ and originally had tomato sauce on it was a great product. I’ve since evolved it a little bit and we’ve elevated it to ⁓ what I call these elevated crusts. So now we take our Caesar dressing and we infuse that in the dough and cook it into the pizza.

So gives it so much more flavor. So you have a Caesar salad on a light thin crust pizza and it’s delicious. And we’ve done that with our barbecue chicken ranch pizza. So we have a barbecue crust. We have a Mediterranean crust. So we took our spinach chicken pizza and made it a Mediterranean crust where we take olive oil and Parmesan and we cook it into the crust ⁓ and then drizzle it on the top. So all kinds of different salad pizzas. So really it’s a unique offering.

in the pizza world. So this thin crust pizza can be done hot and fresh and we have our, we’re known for our hot oil pizza, which is unique. You know, we take our, so our hot oil pizza, we take our own peppers and our own oil and I can’t get too much of my secrets. ⁓ And we soak these peppers in these, in our oils and make a hot oil. And we, we make pizzas with that. We also top other pizzas with that and it’s unique to us. So really,

Anthony Codispoti (17:38)
What is a hot oil pizza?

Carl Bachmann (17:58)
Those are the kind of things that make the brand unique.

Anthony Codispoti (18:01)
Say more about why kids love the pizza so much, especially little kids.

Carl Bachmann (18:06)
It’s amazing, it’s my favorite part of story. ⁓ If you walk into a Rico’s, you’ll actually see kids holding a slice of pizza. And when I say kids, I’m not talking about a 10 year old, I’m talking about a two year old. I’m talking about toddlers. ⁓ Kids are driving families to go to Rico’s because the kids feel comfortable and confident and they love our pizza. It’s light, it’s thin, it’s super crisp, no flop. So they can really hold that slice of pizza.

So you don’t see mom and dad cutting little squares and pieces of pizza for little babies. You see them actually holding a slice of pizza. And the joy that that brings to mom and dad, and of course the kids as well, is really exciting. So I think that’s why kids love it. It’s just a unique offering in that sense. Super crisp, so ⁓ that’s it. And kids love that energy.

Anthony Codispoti (18:53)
I mean, yeah,

you’re talking really thin and really crisp if a two-year-old is holding a piece of pizza and it’s not flopping.

Carl Bachmann (19:01)
Yeah, it’s amazing. It’s so fun to watch. just, again, I get so much joy out of their joy. So I guess because I’m a relatively new grandfather, but I get so much joy out of seeing these little kids ⁓ enjoying pizza together. ⁓

And you see, it takes so much stress away from mom and dad too, because they can get a nice cheese pizza for the kids. The kids can hold that pizza in their hands and mom can have a salad pizza. You we also serve wings and sliders and so we have all kinds of cool, cool items. But ⁓ what really drives people in is the kids. And what’s unique too, is that families watch sports at Rico’s. We have a lot of TVs. Yeah, we have big sports bar set up.

Anthony Codispoti (19:39)
so it’s like a sports bar set up. Okay.

Carl Bachmann (19:43)
So we it’s it’s a really unique environment where you might have three deep at the bar and then the first row of tables is is Three deep with toddlers and kids and families. So it’s kind of a fun environment. I just love that You know, it’s it’s all the things I love sports pizza and kids. So it’s a it’s like the perfect concept for me Yeah, it’s fun So we have ⁓ by the end of the year will be at 14 locations. We have four under construction right now

Anthony Codispoti (20:01)
You’re in heaven right now. How many locations do we have today?

Carl Bachmann (20:11)
And probably next year we’ll have close to 20 locations between our corporate and franchise stores. So we’re growing pretty quickly right now. We’re under a rapid growth movement right now.

Anthony Codispoti (20:23)
So you were saying earlier that when you first met Rico and you turned him down, he didn’t give up. He came after you. He was convinced you were the right guy. What was it you think he saw in you?

Carl Bachmann (20:35)
I think passion, I think he saw my passion. think ⁓ he understood how excited I was about what I do and why I do it. I also, he saw how emotionally attached I was to the teams and the people. Because again, I think people drive this business more than anything. So I think those are the things that he said, this guy has a passion for this business, he knows this business. ⁓ And I also think that we aligned a lot. ⁓

He’s a good human being and sometimes in business that’s hard to find. So, ⁓ and he was determined and driven and I’m very determined and driven. So we had a lot of common traits. So I think that’s why we aligned well.

Anthony Codispoti (21:20)
Can you tell us about sort of the, the, the founding of Rico’s pizza? You know, he’s a passionate guy. He figured out some stuff with his pizza. How did this first kind of all evolve and come

Carl Bachmann (21:32)
So there’s a lot of urban legends about Rico and all the things that he did and got the ideas from other concepts. But what really happened was ⁓ Rico owned a building where he had had another business and he was leasing out retail space in this building. And ⁓ a young man said he had a great idea for a pizza concept. And so he said, great, I’ll lease this space to you for your pizza restaurant.

And then the guy couldn’t ⁓ fulfill the lease and he couldn’t work it out. So he came the next day and said, I can’t get it all together. And Rico said, I love your idea. I love your passion for what you’re doing and ⁓ let’s partner. So he partnered with his tenant. ⁓ And that’s, that’s how Rico’s was born. It really started out pretty much as a takeout only pizza concept. And then he started evolved it, you years ago into the first full bar, bar restaurant and full service concept.

But this started out as a small little takeout where a young guy was going to lease space and couldn’t put the money together and Rico helped fund it. And again, Rico just taking care of another good person, taking care of another good person. And as a result, it goes back to you tenfold. Now he’s got this incredible brand.

Anthony Codispoti (22:43)
And so was the idea always from the start, this super thin, super crisp pizza crust?

Carl Bachmann (22:49)
Yeah,

it’s kind of a big thing in Connecticut. There’s other brands that do it and ⁓ Tavern Style Bar Pizza was the idea. The original pizza restaurant idea. And that’s really how it was born.

Anthony Codispoti (23:04)
So you’ve touched on this a little bit before ⁓ about how you led successful turnarounds at other restaurant chains. What were some of the unique challenges and opportunities that you saw at Rico’s when you first came on?

Carl Bachmann (23:19)
I think that a family-run business has a lot of passion, but they lack a lot of process. So when you have one or two restaurants, and I always call it instant gratification, when you have one or two restaurants, you can kind of cowboy up and you can run it however you need to run it. However you do your job, that’s how well the results are. But when you want to grow a chain,

you have to rely on process because you have to have, you know, the process of duplication has to happen. So you have to be have the ability to ⁓ build processes and systems in place so that you can grow. And I think where Rico was smart enough to realize that was the gap in his business, that he needed a restaurant experienced leader that could put process in place. So we’ve done a lot of that in first few months.

Anthony Codispoti (24:12)
I say you’ve only been there about nine months so far. So you’re still in the early stages of getting some of these processes in place from your past experience and having done similar things before. How long do you think before you’ll and you’re never, you know, you never stop. You’re never done sort of evolving the process and improving and tweaking on it, but how long, how much longer do you think it’ll be before you feel kind of comfortable that you’ve got your system in place?

Carl Bachmann (24:42)
Well, we’re getting close. I think it takes about a year for us to get the basic processes in place. And I use, again, my five pillars. I started by making sure we had the right leadership. I brought in some experienced leaders to help me, some people I’ve worked with for many years. So I think it’s about a year. ⁓ And then, obviously, I wanted to work on some of the products I thought could be better, ⁓ improve the taste and quality of those products. ⁓

Really organize our supply chain and get support from supply chains so that we’re ready to grow. ⁓ Looked at the portfolio, tried to find the exact perfect size restaurant so that it was economically feasible, not only for us to grow, but our franchisees to grow. ⁓ Making sure the platform was right. And that’s where, again, some of the genius that ⁓ Rico and the team built a great platform for making pizza, but how do we build an overall platform for operating the restaurant? ⁓ And then learning management systems.

So step four in my pillars is gold process and gold standards and gold processes. And we didn’t have a learning management system. So a way for us to make sure that every employee understands their role or their responsibility and how they can be successful. So putting in a learning management system in was a huge part of that. And we’ve done that and that evolved just like you suggested earlier, that’s always evolving, but having that the basic principles of our business in that process.

And we’ve done that. And then now really starting to build out marketing and build our following. So I think the first year is probably the big push. And then it’s just tweaking each of those five pillars.

Anthony Codispoti (26:22)
Let’s talk about the franchising opportunity. What kind of folks are you looking for? What are their backgrounds, their personalities, what geographies are open?

Carl Bachmann (26:32)
Sure, so I mean, we really try to, I believe in kind of like grow like a bush, not like a vine. And what I mean by that is grow where you’re strong. Economies of scale come when you grow like a bush. You lose a lot of economies scale and grow like a vine.

Anthony Codispoti (26:47)
Meaning like let’s let’s

just sort of grow from the center out rather than okay you guys are in the northeast let’s go to California tomorrow.

Carl Bachmann (26:51)
Correct.

Exactly. So we really determined that we needed two bushes to grow. So we’re based in Connecticut. So we’re to grow outwardly from Connecticut. So you grow outwardly and like a cluster and what I call it, Fizz Fortress. So as you grow, you go a little bit farther and you’re a little bit farther, but you have brand awareness. have a scalability from a marketing penetration standpoint. Operational support is financially easier to do. Supply chain. It’s huge for supply chain that

you use less ⁓ opcos or operating centers for ⁓ your supplies. So there’s a lot of reasons to grow like a bush, not like a vine. So that’s number one. So we’re growing in Connecticut and we’re going to grow in South Florida. ⁓ And there’s a reason for that too. A lot of people in the Northeast spend a lot of time in South Florida. So we have some brand awareness there. So that’s almost like an extended bush, you know? And then the goal would be to grow up and down the East Coast. You know, a lot of successful historically, a lot of

successful chains in the United States grew along the East Coast and they really used the I-95 corridor as their metrics. And if you still look at a heat map of population in the United States, if you use the I-95 corridor, 80 % of America still lives there. So that’s where you want to build brand awareness. So really building these two bushes, one in the South, one in the North and growing kind of to the middle of the East Coast. And there’s a ton of opportunities for us to franchise.

all along there. So we’re building some corporate restaurants in Florida now, and we have quite a few in Connecticut. But we’re also franchising in those markets as well. So the closer we can keep our franchisees to our existing markets, the higher level of success they have.

Anthony Codispoti (28:37)
And what do you look for in a franchisee? A particular personality trait or work background?

Carl Bachmann (28:44)
Yeah, I think there’s a bunch of different types of franchisees in our industry. I think for us, the best potential franchisee today is probably somebody who knows their market, who’s an existing restaurateur, probably already franchised another concept and they’re looking for that second or third concept. Those people usually have their own infrastructure. They have the background. They also have one of the most important pieces of the puzzles. They know their real estate.

So as they’ve already known the success and failures of their first or second brand. So maybe it’s that guy who had a burger concept and now wants a pizza concept. ⁓ So that’s one group and that’s a strong group and that’s a group that I think fuels your growth fastest and safest. ⁓ But I also think there’s a place for those entrepreneurial one-off individuals that are just so passionate about our business. So we’re finding a way to blend both of those groups, if that makes sense.

Anthony Codispoti (29:42)
personalities. When you sit down with somebody who’s interested in opening up a Ricos franchise, what are you looking for in that person?

Carl Bachmann (29:53)
Big, big personality, big attitudes, ⁓ confidence, fun, exciting. It’s fun business. It’s a fun business. You have to be passionate about it. ⁓ So especially for those one-off individuals, they’re doing their first one. ⁓ If they’ve built other businesses, if they have great networking, ⁓ obviously the financial requirements are there, but most importantly, I think is personality.

because you have to drive this business. doesn’t drive for you, you have to drive it. ⁓ so those big personalities, big, fun, exciting people that have built other businesses before, those are great. Entrepreneurs are great. They got to be entrepreneurial because this is not easy. know, it’s simple. Restaurant business is simple, but it’s not easy. You know, it’s hard work.

Anthony Codispoti (30:41)
And you mentioned one of the things that you like about working with folks who have owned other restaurant concepts is that they know the real estate, they know their area. And you’ve got ⁓ a bit of background in real estate selection and construction. Talk to me about why that’s so important in the pizza business.

Carl Bachmann (30:59)
Well, I think in the restaurant business, it really comes down to location, people, product and process, right? So locations can really cover up a lot of those other things as you kind of fine tune your instrument. So I think it’s the most important thing. and I look at, when I look at locations and I’ve learned this, you know, I learned a long time ago, I built a restaurant years ago and this is a failure. I’m not, I’m proud to talk about my failures and I’ve had plenty because I learned from them.

If you don’t learn from them, that’s the bigger problem. ⁓ When I was building restaurants on my own, I picked a location. said, is a great location. up on the street. It’s got a lot of parking. There’s a ton of traffic. All the characteristics of demographics I thought were important. ⁓ But what I didn’t think about was, for lack of a better term, ⁓ a real estate term called a tweener. It was a tweener. And what I mean by that is there was two big communities, one north and one south of it.

And everybody drove between those two communities, but they drove by my spot at 60 miles an hour. And I learned right then and there, don’t be fooled. know, make sure you understand your market, understand. That’s why I think franchisees didn’t already know their market are in a huge advantage because they understand those tweeners. They, they look good on paper, but if you realize the real traffic, ⁓ and I think that’s why you have to investigate your properties before you own them. You know, I’ve visited, I visit a property multiple, multiple times.

day, night, weekends, different day parts to understand traffic, understand patterns, understand demand generation. You know, it’s visibility, accessibility, signage, traffic, demographics. There’s so all of that comes into picking out good real estate. And I’ve learned from some mistakes over the years and that’s a great example. So to me, location is, is premier and probably, you know, right next to people, the most important thing. And, um,

If they pick the right location, they have time because they’ll do volume to learn all the other pieces of the puzzle.

Anthony Codispoti (33:04)
So when you’re visiting the same location multiple times, is it sort of like hanging out, just sort of getting a feel for it, or is it more structured and a formal evaluation? You’ve got a spreadsheet where you’re counting the number of cars that do X, Y or Z. What’s it look like?

Carl Bachmann (33:20)
Yeah, it’s funny you mentioned

counting cars. I used to look at restaurants or even my own restaurants, if we weren’t doing as well as I wanted to, I literally would get in the car on a Friday night and drive to the competitors and count the cars in their parking lot. And then I always deduct like 15 cars for employees and I had a whole process for that. So I think it’s both. I do have a clipboard sometimes and I ⁓ do have a formula or a real estate program that I put together. ⁓

that I look for in everything. So there’s some structure to it. But I also believe there’s times where I just like to sit down and I’ll sit down on a sidewalk cafe or outside. I remember I was looking at a restaurant years ago in Boston and I sat at a bagel shop for three days, day and night, day and night, day and night, morning, lunch, dinner, to understand who is going where, where people are eating, where they were dining. So I think…

that’s part of the process too. think also going to your competitors, going to existing restaurants in the market, understanding why people do what they do. And the funny thing about the pizza business is we look for a place where a lot of pizza places are. And you think, why would you do that? You would look for where there’s a gap, right? No, because if people love, you know, that we want to go to markets where people love pizza and where there’s a lot of people eating a lot of pizza and there’s a lot of choices. And if we just get into the rotation, we’re going to be successful.

Anthony Codispoti (34:33)
saturated.

Carl Bachmann (34:46)
I actually ⁓ look for markets where there’s a lot of pizza places, and I know, alright, pizza’s a big deal in this market.

Anthony Codispoti (34:52)
that’s interesting. Are there markets where people don’t like pizza?

Carl Bachmann (34:56)
I don’t know. think they like different styles of pizza. I think Neapolitan, New York style, Detroit style, Chicago style, Tavern style, which is what we do. So I think there’s ⁓ probably markets where those are more popular than others. So I think that’s true. I think everybody loves pizza. I think it’s an American iconic food, ⁓ but I do think different styles matter. But I do think that you can go also into a market where maybe your style is not

Anthony Codispoti (34:59)
Okay.

Carl Bachmann (35:25)
the number one choice, but it gives you an option or a change. For us, it’s definitely different. I’m a New Yorker and our pizza is different than New York style pizza. ⁓ So it’s definitely different, but it’s a different occasion. So I think there’s an opportunity everywhere.

Anthony Codispoti (35:40)
Yeah, I live in Columbus, Ohio, and I’m not sure that I’m familiar with tavern style pizza. Is it a thing here?

Carl Bachmann (35:48)
I haven’t seen too much in Columbus, but I haven’t been to Columbus in a while. I need to get there. ⁓ cause I know it’s one of the fastest growing cities in the country. ⁓ there is a tavern, what they call tavern style pizza in Chicago. ⁓ so there’s two, two big styles of pizza in Chicago. Obviously deep dishes is, is the big thing in Chicago, but there’s also tavern style, which is that really thin crust. But I think tavern style or bar pie, what we call a bar pie is much bigger in the Northeast. Then it would be in the Midwest.

Anthony Codispoti (36:16)
Okay.

Any new projects or innovations that you can talk about, stuff that you’re excited?

Carl Bachmann (36:24)
Well, I think the learning management system that we just evolved and it’s really cool. I don’t know if I’m supposed to plug another company, but they’re so great. It’s a company called Opus that we use. And, and I think they really clicked on something that I think was literally genius. and the founder, Rachel realized, think that about 75 % of restaurant employees have an email, but 99.6 % of them have a phone.

And so instead of an email-based, it’s cell phone-based and it’s an app-based learning management system. So to me, that’s been a really exciting part of our process. we’re filming videos, we’re making courses, we’re creating ⁓ training materials so that anybody can learn in any language how to execute our restaurants and how to make our food. And ⁓ to me, that’s a really unique ⁓ platform.

and it’s making a difference and I’m just thrilled by it.

Anthony Codispoti (37:25)
I’d like to hear more about this. How are you, so it’s great that you guys are able to have a platform where all this content is available. How do you actually get employees to consume?

Carl Bachmann (37:37)
Well, ⁓ Opus is cool. So we use it as a training tool and ⁓ we have tablets in the restaurants or they can go on a laptop, but most importantly, it’s on their phone and it’s a free app. ⁓ And they get rated on there. So we actually can give them a course and they get, ⁓ they could track how they do and they get scores on how they perform. So it’s like a competition and they have fun with it. So it’s a fun opportunity for them to learn.

So if you make learning fun and you make it exciting for them and you make it easy for them to access, ⁓ I think that’s the key to the whole thing.

Anthony Codispoti (38:12)
Okay, as a parent of a nine and 11 year old boys, I have to ask, is there a way I can do the same thing for them? I want to get them excited about learning.

Carl Bachmann (38:19)
There you

know, that’s the genius. That’s what we should mention that to Opus like how do you start teaching little kids at school on these on the phones? So yeah, that’s great. That’s funny. I don’t know. ⁓ I don’t know how that would work, but ⁓ I could tell you that. ⁓ It’s amazing how quickly people are adapting to learning on that cell phone. You know their heads in there that space anyway, so.

We want to grab them where they’re already paying attention and it’s really working.

Anthony Codispoti (38:51)
That makes a lot of sense. Let’s shift gears for a moment, Carl, and I’d like to hear about a serious challenge that you’ve overcome, professional or personal. How’d you get through it? What did you learn?

Carl Bachmann (38:55)
Sure.

I think probably the biggest personal challenge in my recent adult life was probably during COVID. ⁓ Both professionally and personally, was challenging. ⁓ Running a company during COVID and keeping restaurants open and keep people working was challenging. But it became really even more challenging in the beginning ⁓ because on March 12th of 2020, which was what? Day zero? I think it was

two days before the world shut down, I got COVID. And I remember joking with my wife, because we didn’t really take it seriously. Oh, I think I have that rona virus thing. And the next day I’m like, oh my, I do have that. I do, think I have that. And I was very ill. And I remember, if you remember in the beginning, they said, 14 days and you’ll get over it. And, you know, it was a two week shutdown. And I remember in day 13, I felt great. And I thought, all right, I’m over it.

Day 14, I couldn’t breathe. Day 14, ⁓ I was rushed to the hospital and almost died on day 14. And that was, I think like March 27th or something. ⁓ And I remember sitting in a hospital, ⁓ in a hospital bed waiting for a room. Everybody’s in hazmat suits and seeing the other hospital tables around me or hospital beds around me in the room. But the…

sheets pulled over because all those people had passed away. So that was a very tough time to ⁓ deal with. ⁓ You know, I think the whole world didn’t believe COVID was real at the time. you know, it was a hoax and, and I was living proof. was probably the best thing that happened at Smashburger because it happened to me, the leader of the company. So I was able to get PPE stuff to all my staff and employees and no one died.

worked at Smashburger during that time. So I felt like that was our goal. Keep our restaurants open, keep money in people’s pockets and keep a roof over their heads and not lose anybody and we’re able to do that. So I took that very seriously. it ⁓ was a really rough couple days and saying goodbye to your children. ⁓ Texting. Well, was texting my… As matter of fact, I started texting but my

Anthony Codispoti (41:23)
What do mean? You thought…

Carl Bachmann (41:28)
I didn’t have a phone charger and my phone died, but the only one I was able to text was my oldest daughter and just texted her and said, a good life and that I love her and I was proud of her. Being able to have to go through that was probably one of the toughest challenges to really say goodbye. There was not a lot of communication back then because of the situation. I think that was probably the biggest challenge.

Making the decision not to go on a ventilator was a big decision. ⁓ The doctor told me three times that day that I was in hospital I was going to die that day if I didn’t go on a ventilator. But again, this was two, three weeks in and everybody was dying on the ventilators. So I refused. ⁓ And I said, I want to be cognizant of what treatment is going to be given to me to try to survive. ⁓

So eventually, luckily, change happened and the new doctor came in that night and said, hey, we have other options. ⁓ And I took another option and I got through it. So.

Anthony Codispoti (42:35)
Okay, I wanna walk through a little bit of this. Day 13, you felt great. Tells me that you’re coming through the other side of the virus. What happened day 14, any idea?

Carl Bachmann (42:37)
Yeah.

Yeah, I think I do now. ⁓ I don’t think I did then, but what happened when the first strain of COVID is, and you probably heard about this, but towards the end of the two weeks or three weeks or whatever you were sick, and for me it was lot longer, ⁓ it settled in your lungs and you ended up getting like double pneumonia. So ⁓ once it settled in your lungs, that’s why a lot of people died, at least in New York, is it settled in your lungs.

Now later strains of it didn’t settle instead of more in your head than in your lungs. But in the beginning, COVID was more of like a head cold, but then it moved to your lungs. And that was the difference for me. So that’s why day 14, I was really sick. And I remember my wife looking at me and saying, I remember telling my wife, said, I’m not going to make it. can’t. I mean, it was like two o’clock in the afternoon and I hadn’t, I had been struggling to breathe for hours. And I just thought, I don’t know what to do. I’m not going to make it. And that’s when she called 911.

got an ambulance here and they put me on full oxygen for a couple days. But yeah, that was the difference.

Anthony Codispoti (43:52)
And then how is it that you were, I don’t know if aware enough is the right word, to refuse the ventilator?

Carl Bachmann (44:02)
think I was just watching like everybody else, all the death around us here in New York.

Anthony Codispoti (44:09)
Did you have access to news while you were in there? Or was it just kind of what you knew leading up to it?

Carl Bachmann (44:12)
Well, the first

I knew I knew going in like if you remember every day, I don’t know how it was across the country, but in New York every day, we’d watch the news in the morning and they give the covid updates nationally and locally. And New York obviously was that one of the epicenters in the beginning. And. The amount of death toll was just rising to the point where, you know, they had tractor trailers of bodies and so.

and they kept saying the ventilators weren’t working and the ventilators weren’t working and they’re saying there’s a shortage of ventilators so I just knew going in if that was the option that wasn’t the option for me so I was going to try something different and I did

Anthony Codispoti (44:54)
What was the different thing that you tried?

Carl Bachmann (44:55)
So ⁓ they gave me a cocktail, which I think was controversial at the time, ⁓ hydroxychloroquine, I believe it’s called, which is like a malaria medicine, a steroid and an antibiotic, kind of a cocktail of all three. And I had to sign waivers and all that. And I said, you can try anything you want to do to try to save my life, ⁓ but I’m not going to be on a ventilator because I want to be coherent and know what’s going on. ⁓

And they gave me the dose around eight o’clock at night. Around midnight, was to the point where I could breathe and I really was tired. And I remember telling the nurse who was a saint, telling him I’m not gonna make it. And I had a full vent with the mask on, so was hard to talk. And I just remember saying, I got 10 breaths left. I got 10 breaths left. And I guess around…

maybe five breaths into those 10, I started hyperventilating and my heart rate started racing. And they said, you’re gonna have a heart attack if you don’t calm down. And then they gave me, I think it was Ativan that they gave me to calm me down. Ironically, I felt my eyes close. And I always make this joke, I try to make light of a tough situation that when my eyes were closing, I didn’t see the pearly gates, but I didn’t see like Bremen, you know.

Fire and brimstone either. I said, all right, I got some work to do still, if I want to make it up there. But at the time, I was at peace at those last couple of seconds. And as my eyes were closing and I thought I was dying, ironically, I was falling asleep because I hadn’t slept in weeks, the stress of it. And I fell asleep. So the Ativan or whatever it was that gave me kind of calmed me down enough to sleep. And I remember waking up at like 2.18 in the morning.

after taking it at eight, falling asleep around midnight. At 2.18 in the morning, I woke up and I could breathe. Now, I couldn’t breathe great, and I figured I’d be on oxygen for the rest of my life, but I could breathe. And I remember sitting there for like four hours, just like crying like a baby, but just like, I’m gonna live, you know? And I’m gonna get through this. By the next morning, at 10 o’clock in the morning, the nurse came in and said, we’re gonna get you off the…

Vent mask and put this nose candle in because you’re doing so well and Of course, I didn’t want to do that. I was I wanted the vet mask. I was so scared and They So so I was watching what she was doing and then there said I know what you’re doing you’re watching because you’re gonna try to turn the oxygen back up when you leave but apparently if you put the nose candle in you can only the oxygen only goes so high and then by I think two or three in the afternoon

I was off oxygen altogether. And then by Sunday morning, so it was Friday night to Saturday, Sunday morning, I was ready to go. I felt the best I’d felt in years. I was so excited to see my family. And then ironically, I went to work on Monday. So yeah, on Monday.

Anthony Codispoti (48:04)
How does an experience

like that change you and your approach to everything?

Carl Bachmann (48:12)
I think it made me really appreciate my family, appreciate true family values and what’s really important in life. Man, do I appreciate servant leaders and servant people who serve others, the first responders and what they do, how much respect I have for them. So I don’t know if it…

changed me as much as it just, it woke me up to ⁓ and reinforced how much I believe in people and how important treating people the way you’d be treated and being a servant style leader is to me is the most important thing I do ⁓ and really work for the people. They don’t work for me, I work for them. A lot of times you see executives or mid-level management say they work at the pleasure of the president or CEO.

I work at the pleasure of the people that serve our guests. ⁓ I think that, to bring it back to my work, think that reinforced exactly how I lead. And I probably have leaned into that more so than ever because of that. So that’s probably how it changed me.

Anthony Codispoti (49:26)
go back to the text messages that you were sending or trying to send to your family saying goodbye, you actually were able to send one to your daughter? And how old was she at the time?

Carl Bachmann (49:33)
Yeah. Yeah.

⁓ she was what’s so five years, about 30. ⁓ she hadn’t had her first child yet and she’s got two now. no, I just remember saying something to her. I don’t think she understood. ⁓ just remember saying something about have a good life and proud of you and stuff like that. And she, I don’t think she understood. was saying goodbye. And I, and I think she called my wife and said, what’s going on? Cause remember she was, ⁓ she’s married and living away. So.

Anthony Codispoti (49:42)
Okay.

Okay.

Carl Bachmann (50:07)
She was here in New York as well, but we were all segregated from each other, so we didn’t see each other. So I think it was a confusing message for her. And I have two boys that I tried to, what’s that?

Anthony Codispoti (50:16)
She didn’t understand the gravity of it at the time.

She didn’t understand the gravity of the message at the time.

Carl Bachmann (50:22)
I don’t

think so. And I have two boys that I went to text them and my phone died. And luckily my wife was able to get a charger into me the next day. So it was really hard, you know, access anything in and out of the hospital in those early days of COVID. So we didn’t have a charger. So it was amazing to see the nurses take tablets and like do Zoom calls and show families so people could say goodbye.

I thought I was going be on that list, so I’m very blessed that I got through that and thankful. Yeah, so that’s probably the biggest challenge I would think maybe of my adult life.

Anthony Codispoti (50:55)
powerful story.

Carl, what’s your superpower?

Carl Bachmann (51:06)
Um, I think it, I think it revolves around the same thing. Kind of the tone of this whole call is, um, it’s about, you know, treat people the way you want to be treated, loving people. Um, I have so much respect for people that are kind and considerate and, um, it doesn’t mean you’re not accountable or you don’t hold people accountable. It’s the exact opposite. It means that you, you, you, you hold people up so they can succeed. And to me,

To me that’s probably, I don’t know if it’s a superpower, but if it’s a superpower, that’s it. And it’s just generally really caring about the lives of the people around you.

Anthony Codispoti (51:51)
What’s powerful stuff. Do you have any recommendations for our listeners in terms of resources, a podcast or a book, something that’s been helpful to you?

Carl Bachmann (52:03)
⁓ I read a lot of management books. ⁓ know, restaurant people, you I always tell them read the One Minute Manager and Raving Fans and those books, they’re just, they talk about passion for service. I think those are good books and these are Ken Blanchard books. They’re very old school, ⁓ but those are good. ⁓

As far as I don’t listen to a lot of podcasts, but I’m learning to, I’ve been really enjoying them lately, but I, I think, um, opening your eyes to other opinions to me is a great, great piece of advice. Um, always learning. Um, you know, I’m 58 and I’m learning more today than I did when I was 57 and I hope I learned more at 59, you know? So I know those, those are the things that I think are important. Um, I’m always learning new things and

And I mean, can learn, you can learn from everybody in your organization and in your family, but I learned from my team, you know, all day long. And I take the things I learned from them and I kind of repackage them into our direction as a company. So I think that may be the best advice I could give.

Anthony Codispoti (53:15)
Do you have any suggestions on how to teach that same, I’ll call it curiosity, that you have to your team members? To put them in a state where they’re always wanting to learn, rather than thinking they’ve got it figured out.

Carl Bachmann (53:31)
I think it’s how you lead by example. And I think the best thing you can do is be excited about something. Excitement’s contagious. So if I’m really passionate about it, like I get excited about a new pizza or a new recipe or a new process, or I talked about Opus earlier, how excited I am about this process. ⁓ I think that being genuinely excited and open. ⁓

You know, lot of people are closed off or very buttoned up or, you know, I purposely dress casually every day because I want to be approachable. ⁓ so I think being open-minded and excited about things. ⁓ and if you’re going to lead people, show your excitement, show your vulnerability, show your passion, you know, and they’ll take you where they’ll take you places. You had no idea you could go, you know, I really believe that’s, that’s key. You know, that’s why, again, the pillars.

It’s always people first. The reason why my career has been successful and I’ve had some ups and downs, but overall very successful and I have the beautiful life that I have for me and my family is the people that have worked with me. They’ve lifted me up. So if you’re excited about stuff, if you’re passionate about something, share it. Excitement and passion to me is contagious.

Anthony Codispoti (54:58)
I love that. I love that a lot. How about any daily practices habits that help you get your day started or keep you going?

Carl Bachmann (55:07)
Well, ⁓ there’s a, as a culinary person or a restaurant person, you know, he’s talking about chefs have this phrase and I’ll probably butcher it, but it’s called mise en place or what I think that’s how you say it. And it means everything has its place. It’s like an organized kitchen. Everything has its place. And ⁓ when you’re multitasking to me, organization, which has always been a challenge for me. if you, people who know me aren’t going to say I’m the most organized, but

My wife will say I have like certain things I have to have a certain way and my keys are in a certain place my wallets in a certain place and and You know everything I so I believe that everything has its place and ⁓ I think that’s probably probably it but Yeah, does that does that make sense?

Anthony Codispoti (55:54)
It does.

Sure. Yeah. I you know, I don’t know if you’re the same way, but I get a little scatterbrained sometimes. And so knowing that that happens to me, I’ve got to write everything down. I’ve got to put it in the calendar. Right. My keys have to go in that special place. My shoes have to go in the closet or I’m going to be looking for my wallet has to go right on the nightstand. Like I know that and I think, you know, I see this a lot with

entrepreneurs or other successful executives is that one of the, it’s sort of like two sides of the same coin. One of the things that makes us so great at what we do and sort of being able to connect the dots and lead people and figure out new ideas and sort of carve the path forward are also some of the things that like, we can be a little bit all over the place. so recognizing that and then sort of ⁓ systems and structure around our personality traits, I think.

is, you know, they’re really helpful kind of ⁓ guardrails.

Carl Bachmann (56:54)
Yeah, and ⁓ that’s exactly I feel like I’m multitasking all the time. So these basic things, if you don’t have those things knocked out, I can’t multitask. So at least that’s how I feel. So you articulated better than I did, but yes, I believe that those little details give me the ability to be scatterbrained, to do a million different things in a million different ways, running in every different direction. And good leaders do that. ⁓

and that’s me.

Anthony Codispoti (57:23)
And good leaders

hire well around them too, right? So you’ve got folks around you that can kind of help to fill in some of your gaps. ⁓ You know, they compliment your strengths and, you know, maybe some things that you’re not so great at.

Carl Bachmann (57:39)
Absolutely, absolutely. always, try to hire people to have the same kind of drive, but always a different skill set.

Anthony Codispoti (57:48)
Just one more question for you, Carl. But before I ask it, I want to do two things. First of all, everyone listening, pause for just a second, go to your podcast app, go ahead and hit the follow or subscribe button. That way you continue to get more great interviews like we’ve had today with Carl. I’m also going to let people know the best way to get in touch with you, Carl, which is your email address, Carl, C A R L at Rico’s pizza.com. And Rico is spelled with a K, so it’s R I K O S pizza.com. So

Carl at Rico’s, Rico’s pizza.com. And we’ll have that in the show notes for folks. And then the last question I want to ask you, Carl is, you we’ve had a great conversation here today. I hope we stay in touch a year from now. We reconnect and you’re celebrating, celebrating something big. What’s that big thing that you hope to be celebrating one year from today?

Carl Bachmann (58:39)
work or life.

Anthony Codispoti (58:42)
Both. Give me both.

Carl Bachmann (58:45)
I think I would celebrate some more grandchildren. ⁓ Those are from a personal standpoint. ⁓ No pressure on my daughter, but I got two boys. So eventually, hopefully a year from now or two years from now, we got some more grandchildren to talk about. ⁓ From a work ⁓ perspective is kind of realizing Rico’s dream for his brand and building this national chain.

You know, a lot of ⁓ guys build a chain to sell it, or they build a chain and they flip it to private equity. That’s not Rico’s goal. Rico wants to put a stamp on his career, on his life. he’s so excited and proud of what he’s built here and what he wants to build. So I want to be part of that and help deliver that for him. ⁓ He really pulled at my heartstrings, like what he wants to do. And he’s like, do I have to sell it? I said, no, you don’t have to sell it. And he’s like, maybe I never want to sell it. I said, maybe you should never sell it.

I want to grow it, you know, and I want to build this something. So he wants to kind of put that stamp on his career. And I think a year from now, we’re going to be well on our way to doing that. And that’s fun. That’s exciting for me.

Anthony Codispoti (59:55)
I can pick up on that passion. Carl Bachmann from Rico’s Pizza, I want to be the first to thank you for sharing both your time and your story with us today. I really appreciate it.

Carl Bachmann (1:00:04)
thanks. It was great. I enjoyed talking with you.

Anthony Codispoti (1:00:06)
Folks, that’s a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories podcast. Thanks for learning with us today.