Faith, Family, and Finance: Jessica McClain’s Balanced Approach to Nonprofit Leadership

Anthony Codispoti : Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired by how they’ve overcome adversity. My name is Anthony Codispoti and today’s guest is Jessica McClain. She is the chief financial officer at Girl Scouts Nations Capital, a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering youth through leadership and community services across the Washington, D.C. area. Since its establishment in 1963, Girl Scouts Nations Capital has grown to serve thousands, offering programs that build youth to encourage confidence, courage, and character that make the world a better place. Jessica brings a wealth of finance and management expertise with several years in the nonprofit sector. She previously served as the controller for Brand USA and held leadership roles at Grant Thornton and Williams Adley in Company, D.C.

Throughout her career, Jessica has optimized financial processes, championed operational excellence, and helped drive impactful community outreach. Now, before we get into all that good stuff, today’s episode is brought to you by my company, AdVac Benefits Agency, where we offer very specific and unique employee benefits that are both great for your team and fiscally optimized for your bottom line. One recent client was able to add over $900 per employee per year in extra net profits by implementing one of our innovative programs. Results vary for each company, and some organizations may not be eligible.

To find out if your company qualifies, contact us today at adbackbenefits.com. All right, back to our guest today, the CFO at Girl Scouts Nations Capital, Jessica McClain. Thanks for making the time to share your story today.

Jessica McClain : I appreciate the opportunity, Anthony, and I’m excited about our discussion this afternoon.

Anthony Codispoti : Let’s jump right into it then, Jessica. So right out of college, you had roles at some pretty big companies, including KPMG and IBM. What were those early experiences like, and how did it help prepare you for some of your higher roles to come? Absolutely.

Jessica McClain : I had the amazing opportunity to work at some amazing organizations early on in my career, just right out of college. And they really laid the foundation for the work that I even do now. And at KPMG, in my time in public accounting, I got to work with all types of clients across various industries and various aspects and working to address that their needs as our client. I’ve learned, I had learned adaptability. I had to learn the ability to build trust with our clients as well. At my time at IBM, I was doing a lot of audit readiness type work.

So I’m thinking through system changes, process changes, and process improvements. And the time at both of those organizations, they definitely pushed my analytical thinking, my strategic thinking, but also was very client-focused in the work that we did. And these are things that I carry with me in my role even currently today.

Anthony Codispoti : And I understand you also had some talk. Well, obviously now you’re in the nonprofit space. Were you at any other nonprofits before joining Girl Scouts?

Jessica McClain : Yes, I was at Brand U.S .A., which is a 501c6 association. They are, excuse me, the marketing organization for international travelers to come to America.

Anthony Codispoti : I’m not familiar with that designation 501c6.

Jessica McClain : 501c6. So when people think of nonprofits, right, there’s different types. Correct. Correct. And so your c6s are more association organizations. They’re usually supporting business organizations within a various sector. So whether it’s travel, whether it’s staffing, whether it’s hotel and tourism, those are your c6 organizations where your c3, which is where I am at Girl Scouts, are more about supporting members and supporting a particular need of group of individuals. Okay.

Anthony Codispoti : And so how have you found the work at nonprofits, whether the c3 or the c6, to compare to work at some of the bigger for-profit companies that you were at?

Jessica McClain : I would say the nonprofit space, it’s given me, it’s been very meaningful for me in working in that space. I will say when I left public accounting specifically, I wanted to do work that had an impact. Social impact had a positive impact on people, on organizations, and that’s what really drew me to the nonprofit space after I left public accounting. So it definitely fills my cup and gives me a huge sense of purpose.

Anthony Codispoti : And how about the day-to-day, like sort of the inner workings? Is there sort of a difference in some of the tasks that you’re doing?

Jessica McClain : I would say overall, I love to say that when I hear people say about nonprofit, it is a tax status. Nonprofits are still a business. Many of the risk, many of the work, many of the things that I do on a day-to-day basis are not much different from for-profit counterparts in other areas. There’s actually more level of higher level of complexity in the nonprofit space. When you’re talking about working with donors and funders and different types of donors and funders, the reporting that comes behind that. But I am just as concerned about hiring great talent, inflation, tariffs, those are the same things that I think about even in the nonprofit space.

Anthony Codispoti : How do tariffs affect Girl Scouts?

Jessica McClain : So Girl Scouts, our organization, we have retail sales. We have four brick-and-mortar stores, but also an online presence. Well, the things that we sell, of course, we have to pay for the inventory.

And so the costs of those items have gone up as well. And so again, there, many of the same challenges that for-profit CFOs encounter are the same ones that I encounter as well.

Anthony Codispoti : Well, I’m glad you kind of touched on that, Jessica, because I do think there’s sort of this misperception that nonprofits are actually trying to lose money or trying really hard to make sure that at the end of the day, the books are just barely even. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Jessica McClain : Oh gosh, that was something I had to wrap my head around coming into the nonprofit space and that’s something I talk about. Again, nonprofit is just the tax status that we have with the IRS. That is not our business model. We need to have profits. That’s how we invest in our, specifically at Girl Scouts.

That’s how we invest in our members, investing in the programming, our volunteers, that we have adequate cash reserves. So it is very important that we have a profit, but it’s not about just maximizing it. Maximizing, excuse me, it’s not the number one purpose in what we do.

We need to have profits, but our purpose is to serve, again, our youth members, because we’re growing young people of courage, confidence, and character, and it takes money to do that.

Anthony Codispoti : And so when you do have a profit, then what happens to that money? It doesn’t go to shareholders because there aren’t any.

Jessica McClain : No, it’s actually reinvested back within the organization. Some of it, of course, is put away for reserves. I mean, we’ve had COVID. I mean, some of the economic ups and downs that we’ve encountered, well, you have to have the financial foundation to be able to weather those. But it’s allowed us to help grow what we’re offering. Again, we are really about supporting our members and ensuring that our Girl Scouts have high quality programming. Will we make those investments from the money that we bring in?

Anthony Codispoti : So tell us, Jessica, how the opportunity to join Girl Scouts came about? Absolutely.

Jessica McClain : So it was interesting, not something I went looking for. But when I was at Brand USA, I was a controller at the time and I said, hmm, if I want to be a CFO one day, what will it take to get there? And so I signed up for CFO job listings. Now a profit was specifically on LinkedIn and just read them when they came in just to understand the experience that I needed to get there one day. Well, I was looking and the Girl Scouts opportunity showed up. I’ve read the job description and the requirements, responsibilities, and I said, wow, I think I could do this job. And it was really a touching moment for me because I was a group as a Girl Scout in this particular council myself. Oh, is that right?

Yes. It was actually like circling back home. And so I went through the interview process with some presentations and some other work as well. And here I am almost four years later.

Anthony Codispoti : And so tell us what is the day to day work of a CFO at Girl Scouts Nations Capital look like?

Jessica McClain : Oh, wow. So it depends on the time of year. No day is ever, ever the same. So whether I’m dealing with in December, we’re dealing with our financial statement audit. So we’re working with our auditors to do that. If it’s cookie season, my part of my responsibilities is having strategic oversight of our cookie program. So when the spring, that’s a lot of time is spent there, again, making sure our girls have the cookies they’re selling and everything that they need to be successful. Whether it’s in the spring as well, we’re doing our budget.

So it’s budget season at the time, retirement plan on all that’s going on. So there is no day that is consistent. Sometimes what’s going on controls what happens for me that day. But I think that what makes it it makes it interesting and exciting at the same time.

Anthony Codispoti : So let’s pretend for a moment that there may be a listener who is not familiar with the Girl Scouts or this is even more realistic. I think most people have heard of the Girl Scouts.

Maybe they don’t understand what actually happens inside the Girl Scouts. Can you kind of paint a picture for the age groups that you’re serving, the types of programming that’s available? Absolutely.

Jessica McClain : So I always like to start by saying, you know, the mission of Girl Scouts, we are building use of courage, confidence and character that are going to make the world a better place. I mean, you can’t have this world without Girl Scouts. And we’re doing that through outdoor adventure, teaching life skills, STEM, entrepreneurship, there’s many ways. And one thing I love to say about Girl Scouts, there’s no one way to have a Girl Scout experience.

I’ve talked with many Girl Scouts and they’ve talked about they found their passion and something that they love within Girl Scouts, whether it is camping, being outdoors, arts, STEM, technology, there’s something there for everyone. And I think that is what we need. We’re also making people, young people, helping them to grow to be community minded, helping them to be thoughtful and kind. It’s also a part of what we do. So yes, we’re making the future generations, we’re generations of leaders. But there’s also that piece of kind, thoughtful and community minded individuals.

And so we’re offering programming. I mean, our Girl Scouts are out doing, earning higher awards, which is some people know the Eagle Scout Award that Boy Scouts has. But we have ours as well. We have, there’s different levels.

You have your bronze, silver and gold, and gold being the highest. And they’re out here doing some of the most amazing projects. Like I was not thinking of some of these things as a teenager, making dog parks. I mean, talking about going to space, I mean, it is out of this world, the project that our Girl Scouts come up with. And we’re serving young people from ages from kindergarten up to 12th grade.

Anthony Codispoti : Now, man, it’s been years. But I remember as a kid, that a lot of the girls I knew they started out as brownies and then brownies went into Girl Scouts. Is that still a thing? And are brownies under the Girl Scouts umbrella? Yes.

Jessica McClain : So right now you can start off as a daisy, which starts off at kindergarten. There’s your brownies, your juniors, cadets, ambassadors, seniors. And again, takes you from kindergarten all the way to 12th grade. And again, we’ve seen Girl Scouts who had started off and had one love with part of Girl Scouts. And then it shifted later on. But there’s a way to make the Girl Scouts experience what makes what’s best for that particular child.

Anthony Codispoti : And how many women and young girls are you helping in this program in any given year? 40,000.

Jessica McClain : We are the largest Girl Scout council in the country, based on number of members, 40,000. But I always love to say it is possible because of our volunteers. 35,000 volunteers. They are the ones boots on the ground, delivering the programming that our Girl Scouts need. And so it’s because of them that we’re able to do that. And so they are the lifeblood. They really are to serve that many Girl Scouts.

Anthony Codispoti : And are these mostly parents?

Jessica McClain : Yeah, a lot of it are parents. Some of our volunteers are maybe their own child has gone through Girl Scouts and they still want to be connected. And they have been connected for decades. And I truly say they are the lifeblood of what we do. Our job at the council is to support our volunteers who are delivering the programming.

Anthony Codispoti : We talked a little bit about the difference between for-profit, non-for-profit work. What was maybe the biggest challenge in kind of making that transition?

Jessica McClain : One of the biggest ones I would say is helping people understand that the work that we do, again, that our tax status means non-profit, but not how we operate and how we should think, how we should operate. That we are a business, excuse me.

So that has been part of the challenging piece. But also it’s unfortunate that non-profits have the mantra of doing more with less. And it brings on a scarcity mindset and not starting from a place of abundance, even with the terminology and the wording that’s used.

It’s always a can or shouldn’t or we need to do, we got to do so much more, but we have less. You don’t hear the for-profit world talking that way. They figure out how to get more. And that’s what non-profits need to do.

And that’s what we’re going to do. Something I talk about a lot wherever I can and share, profits are okay. And profits are needed in our space. It’s just, again, that isn’t the sole driver of what we do on a day-to-day basis.

Anthony Codispoti : So as a non-profit, do you think about that more from how do we get more sponsors, more donors, more outside funding? Or do you think of it in terms of how do we generate more revenue from within in the ways that maybe a for-profit company would think about? How do we sell more cookies? Or how do we have more events like selling cookies that can generate revenue?

Jessica McClain : All of it. We’re thinking about all of it. We have donors and funders who believe in our mission, who believe in what we do and have supported us for many, many years financially. We offer programming. There’s fees that tie it to some of that. So there’s multiple ways that we’re working to bring in that revenue. But again, it’s being reinvested back within the organization to be to ensure we’re offering quality programming, not just any program, quality. And that is of the utmost importance.

Anthony Codispoti : Now Girl Scouts emphasizes courage. Make sure I get this correct. Confidence and character. What special meaning do those values have for you, Jessica? Wow.

Jessica McClain : Those three words, and they all, they have their own meaning, but the importance of them. And I think about courage. We talk about, I think it from the perspective of taking bold steps. I mean, whether it’s a Girl Scout doing zip lining for the first time, it takes courage to do that. I’m not sure if I can even do it. You know, getting in a kayak and getting out there.

I’m not sure if I could do that either. But being able to take a step when there’s a level of uncertainty there is something that we’re working to build. You know, confidence, believing in your voice, believing in who you are and your own self-worth is important. That isn’t something that just comes with you as a child. It’s something that we’re building because it stays with you through adulthood. But what I think is so important is the character piece that you’re able to do the right thing and you’re doing the right thing even when no one is watching. You know, ethics, integrity are so important again. So yes, we’re building those future leaders, but it’s also about good people is what we’re looking for as well.

Anthony Codispoti : Jessica, I want to take a few minutes and kind of dive into some of the financial accomplishments, if you will, that you’ve been a part of there at Girl Scouts. You shortened the council’s financial closing periods. First, explain what that means and then how did you accomplish that?

Jessica McClain : So one of the things I did when I first came into your organization, I just did a lot of just listening. A lot of listening, just watching, listening, running, come in, try to make a lot of changes to things. But one thing I noticed when I heard closing the books, so those are the accounting where I understand closing the books each month. A lot of times we have to present financials to a board or a finance committee on a monthly basis. And it was taking about 25 to 30 days to do that. And I said, wow, that’s pretty long.

About the time you get that done, you’re into the next month and it just isn’t, the information isn’t relevant as you get to that point. And so one of the things I did was one ensure that the team members had adequate training on the accounting software. The accounting system had been implemented five or six years when I came in, but no one had training on it. What was the system? Sage intact is what we went and implemented.

I think it was from quick books to intact prior to my arrival. So getting the training to understand the capabilities of the system. Number two, we sat down with our consultant and say, tell me all that modules and the enhancements that we have and implemented as well. Cause there was things I was seeing, like, why are we doing it this way when I know the system can do it? So we implemented that as well. And then just looked at the process of closing and sure we had a checklist that didn’t have redundancies, checklists that didn’t have us doing things that were no longer at that point obsolete, even changing the communication with other departments at the time that we need information from them to close the books timely. So we went from about 30 days, but we can do it about 15 or so. I still want to do some of work in that area, but a drastic shift to be able to get financial information and more timely manner.

Anthony Codispoti : What was the single biggest lever you pulled to shave off the most number of days there? I have to imagine it was probably like, we fixed this, we instituted that like we get a day here, we get an extra day here, but was there one lever that was like really big and you got a few days out of it?

Jessica McClain : I’d have to say the enhancements to the system. And so one example was we were still improving journal entries. I mean, physically I was signing them via Adobe on paper quote unquote. Well, all of that can be done in the system by clicking a button. And so at the time you would put it together, send it to me, I signed the paper, you take it back, upload it.

I mean, that time and then we’re making sure you don’t miss anything. That was probably one of the biggest levers was that piece of there’s some other ones that we did, but just making those tweaks and like adding them up saved a significant time.

Anthony Codispoti : And so Breast Hacks, how does shortening the closing period from 30 days to 15 days help the organization? What does that allow you to do that you couldn’t before?

Jessica McClain : Part of it is getting timely, relevant financial information. At some point, if the information isn’t coming in timely, it serves no purpose. So one, being able to get an idea of, okay, we thought we were heading some way with our fees in this area or expenses in this particular area, I can see a lot sooner. And if we need to pivot or make a change, or there’s additional information we need to communicate to one of our committees or our board as well, because I’m literally getting it that much sooner. We’re also able to do a more timely review. We’re reviewing financials like, oh, that looks off. I think we maybe made an area in a journal entry that we need to address or need to fix. And so by shortening it, the team now has time to work on other projects. They’re not just closing the books on a day-to-day basis.

Anthony Codispoti : What kind of other projects did that open your staff up to?

Jessica McClain : One of the things we had recently done was writing some policies and procedures. We hadn’t done that in some areas. We recently finally went live on the FPNA platform as well. Even looking at making other enhancements and changes to other areas with our credit card approvals using the app instead of having to just go online and look at a website, getting an app implemented. I mean, so there’s other time to now do some more of that higher level work or strategic thinking that streamlines other areas as well.

Anthony Codispoti : What is FPNA software?

Jessica McClain : Sure. So financial planning and analysis. And we recently did the implementation. So we’re just now kind of getting on the ground with it. But we’re hoping and excited about actually the forecasting capabilities and some of the reporting improvements as well. Because again, one thing I like to tell people as a CFO, I’m communicating sometimes complex, sometimes financial information to those that have varying levels of financial acumen. Some people want to see it in a dashboard form. Some people want to see statements. Some people want to read it in a memo. Well, having these improved reporting capabilities allows me to tailor that information to various audiences. So we’re excited about that. And I think it also let make us allow us to have make better data informed decisions as well.

Anthony Codispoti : You mentioned also something about the credit cards. Now you’re using an app instead of going to the website. And you explain why that was such a big time saver.

Jessica McClain : Well, one, everyone does so much on their phone. They would all of us have a smartphone. We’re doing things on our phone. So what we’re noticing is just kind of the time lag it was taking for people to get receipts uploaded and logging in and getting them coded and giving them approved or they’re losing receipts. Well, if you have it on your phone, there’s an app you can do your approvals from your phone. You don’t have to wait to get in front of a computer.

You can upload a receipt the minute you’re in a restaurant and that worry about taking a picture losing the receipt, then you can’t find it because this is more for expense tracking expense tracking. Absolutely. Okay, tracking. You can then upload a receipt even if the transaction hasn’t posted yet. So that way you don’t have to think about it later. And so we start already starting to kind of see a quicker turnaround with approvals because people aren’t waiting. So they go back to a desk to log in. I can be on a train ride or a bus ride to work and I can start doing my approvals literally on my phone instead of trying to do it even on a phone through a particular, um, a normal website. Making things easier for people as much as possible.

Anthony Codispoti : Now, Jessica, you also managed to draft that council’s first investment spend policy. What is that? And why was it such a big deal? Absolutely.

Jessica McClain : So we have investments and we’re very fortunate enough because we had profits over the years to even have investments. Well, to spend that down or to draw from it, you have to have a spend policy to do that. And it gives you kind of the rules and the guidelines of how that happens, the approval processes, et cetera. And with that, we’re able now at this point, if we need to use and spend down or draw down some of our investment earnings, but people don’t realize we just can’t go starting spending our investments. There’s a process and policy in place to guide us so that we’re disciplined in how we do it and we’re making value-driven decisions what we do at the same time. So very excited about that.

Anthony Codispoti : So like what are some of the guardrails that you’ve got in place?

Jessica McClain : So one is how the approval process of how much we can even draw down on a given year, the approval that has to come from our investment committee and our board, endowments have their own set of rules as well that we have to follow and so that those guidelines are in there as well.

Anthony Codispoti : So you guys decide you need a new addition to your office building. Can you just do that or what’s the process look like?

Jessica McClain : Well, part of it is we don’t, we have to definitely go through a full approval process, but explaining it to our investment committee why the drawdown is important and why it’s needed. Now again, we have to go through that process of discussing, does that make sense? Do we have other sources of funds to make these investments? Because again, Girl Scout Station is confident we’re very fortunate to be where we are from a financial standpoint to be able to again make the required investments. So this is just one way of being able to do that that wasn’t there before.

Anthony Codispoti : Jessica, you’ve written about the four key traits for today’s CFO. Can you say a little bit more about that?

Jessica McClain : So there’s four traits and I will add that I think if I had to pick the one, the one that I think is probably I live by and I think is one of the most important is curiosity. I ask questions and some of it comes from my former auditor background where I ask questions and maybe annoying at times, but the trait it pushes me to not stick with the status quo and to challenge it. But people know that they’ve worked with me or team members would say I’ll ask, you know, why are we doing X, Y, Z or why are we doing it this way?

And they know the answer I hate to hear is because that’s how we’ve always done it. I’m going to always ask, but it allows you to then explore new ways of doing things that maybe you hadn’t thought of. But I also think it’s important now, especially with the advancements in technology, you’re going to have to have a curious mindset. There is no, okay, I learned how to do it and I just do it this one way and I do it for the rest of my career. How we’re working now will be very different in five years.

It’ll be very different in 10 years. So I have to have that curiosity mindset, but also I don’t believe in having all the answers. I don’t have to be the smartest person in the room. I just want to make sure I’m asking the right questions. That to me is important and comes with that mindset.

Anthony Codispoti : So what do you do when you run into somebody who their answer is we’re doing it this way because that’s the way that we’ve always done it. And they’re not really wired for that curiosity. They’re not wired for change, even if this might not be the most efficient way. It’s the way that they know and they’re comfortable with it. How do you pull or push that person along?

Jessica McClain : I usually start by have we consider or have we thought of. And so I don’t want to come in pushy because some people may take it as a negative. Oh, she thinks we don’t know what we’re doing and she thinks she knows everything. And I said, no, I just like to ask the question and it’s have we considered how we thought about it. And usually some people may say, oh, well, we thought about it, but didn’t have the capacity or we didn’t have the financial resources. Oh, we hadn’t thought about that way. Now, we would love to make something easier. So yes, people can be resistant or may not have that mindset, but it’s something I need to model and demonstrate as well to say it’s okay to ask questions of why we’ve been doing something. I don’t care how minuscule it may seem. Why? And sometimes people have no answer other than we’ve just done it that way and I’ve never thought about it any differently.

Anthony Codispoti : You mentioned before, Jessica, that you guys have 40,000 members there. 40,000 youth members, yes. Nations Capital, the DC area. How do you attract so many girls and young women into the program? Their marketing efforts? Is it just, you know, you’ve got these, what do you call them, independent troops? And they’re just, you sort of arm them with like the materials to go into the schools and kind of recruit people or like, how does this work?

Jessica McClain : I learned one of the things I learned when I got to Girl Scouts was people follow people. So that’s normally how it’s, how it kind of happens. It’s I know someone whether I or others are a Girl Scout and so they did it and so their mom did it. So their child’s going to do it.

That’s some of it. Others, it’s conversation and I’m looking for a place where my, my child can, you know, explore outdoors or explore programming and then through conversation, another parent is sharing that. Of course, their marketing efforts were going into schools to show schools and parents the benefits and the impact that Girl Scout has. So there’s many levers that we can pull to do that, but I learned they say people follow people. And so for us, it’s making sure we have those connections and supporting our members and our volunteers because they’re the ones that are telling the story of Girl Scouts.

Anthony Codispoti : You mentioned before your curiosity, one of those important principles to you. I’m curious where that curiosity comes from. Do you think, were you just born with it? Is it something sort of instilled in you by parents or previous work experiences, any sense of why you are the way that you are?

Jessica McClain : I mean, I could start with saying what my learn got from my parents. That’s probably plays a role in there. I think some of it evolved over time as my work as an auditor. We have to have a curious mindset. We have to operate from a level area of professional skepticism where we trust but verify is a lot of times what we would say in that space. But just over time, one of the learning journeys that I’ve had as part of my leadership growth is that curiosity mindset because I wonder sometimes how some leaders seem to have this division and they’re able to sell the vision or some of it is just I love to learn.

Anthony, I tell people I am a nerd and I’m proud to say I am one. We did a our senior leadership team months ago did a via character strengths, VIA and it talks about strengths and that is like weaknesses and it numbers them. My number one was love of learning. So that mindset of just wanting to take information in and take things in and learn and grow. Part of me is just that’s how I am wired as well.

Anthony Codispoti : What were the next two?

Jessica McClain : That was your number one. The second one was humbleness. I don’t remember the third but my second was humility. Okay. Even with the success that I have, it’s not something I go and run the tell the whole world about a lot of times. Just because I know where that’s come from is my faith and my religion and that’s how I’ve gotten it. So humility is really important to me.

Anthony Codispoti : You credit faith and religion for being a big part of why you are where you are today. Can you say more about that?

Jessica McClain : Absolutely. Absolutely. My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, he is why I’m here. He is the one that is destined my path for me and because of him is why I say I have what I have and I am where I am and the life that I’ve had. And so I owe all the glory to him with that.

Anthony Codispoti : So you’ve got curiosity and then you’ve got humility, humbleness. Yes. And I’m going to guess that humility comes in helpful when, kind of like we were just talking about, you run into that situation where you’ve got somebody who’s stuck in the way that they’re doing it. that you’re aware enough to know that even though you already know that what you’re going to suggest is a better answer, there is a diplomatic way to approach it so that you’re not ruffling feathers and you’re getting people to kind of join you on this ride.

Jessica McClain : Yeah, absolutely, Anthony. You’re right in that. And I also picked it from the perspective of, well, like coming to meetings with team members and I say, I don’t know the answer to this.

Maybe there’s a way to change or do something different, but I don’t know what that looks like. And so I want to hear from you all. I have blind spots. I have biases as well. There’s things that I’m not seeing. And so that humility is really important to me, especially in being a leader.

Anthony Codispoti : You know, a lot of us are shaped at least in part by the challenges that we’ve overcome in our lives. Jessica, what’s a serious challenge, whether it’s personal or professional, that you’ve had to overcome? How did you get through it and what did you learn?

Jessica McClain : The biggest challenge that I had, and we’ve all had them and learned from them. I became a mom. And specifically not just about being a mom, but taking on their caregiving role because there are others who are taking care of other family members, whether it’s parents, siblings, that while having that role while holding a leadership role was one of the hardest and most difficult transitions I’ve experienced. I tell people I am unapologetically ambitious. And having to then battle the feeling of guilt, the feeling of burnout and managing, moving my career forward and what I wanted to do and what I wanted to accomplish.

At times I feel like I wasn’t doing enough for everyone and stretching myself then. It’s one of the reasons why I left public accounting. I love the accounting profession. There are many great firms to work for, organizations to work for, but we still have to do more to support parents, caregivers to be able to have a career that is successful to them, but making sure they’re taking care of home and what they need to do outside of responsibilities. And so I had to really reframe how I saw success.

I thought it was come in public accounting, be a partner. Well, then I looked like, well, that really maybe isn’t for me. That’s not how I define my success. I want to make sure I want to help people be the best versions of themselves. I want to be the amazing mom, sister, wife, daughter, friend. Those things are important to me, being there for the people that I love. Being able to make sure I’m taking care of myself with the rest.

And that’s not always easy with young children, but I do my best. So that was a challenge for me of reframing how I saw success in the future, what it meant that others didn’t define it, that I can define it for me and how I wanted it to be.

Anthony Codispoti : And so it’s sort of in that those early processes, those early days of becoming a mother that you kind of found yourself reframing what success looks like. Like, I want to do this. And I want to be a mother. I want to be successful in my career.

Partner is going to take a lot of time away from the family part over here. Maybe there’s a different way for me to define what success looks like. Does that sound accurate?

Jessica McClain : Absolutely. And again, having the meaning and the purpose in the work that I do, and it’s one of the reasons why I transitioned to the nonprofit space, whether it gets in the social space, the economic space, I just wanted to do work that I knew was having a positive impact. Because I get a sense of fulfillment from that. And so like all those areas you mentioned in that sense of fulfillment was so important to me that now my path is different, but I feel good about it. Still being tiring sometimes in all of the work and juggling everything.

It’s not perfect. But there’s a sense of harmony that I get where I have the career. I have the ambitious goals outside of work, but I’m taking care of family. What’s important to me personally.

Anthony Codispoti : Jessica, I’m glad that we’re talking about this. I think this doesn’t get enough discussion. And from a father’s point of view, when I first became a dad, it was really challenging for me. And I’ll talk about my wife, which made parallel a little bit more with your experiences.

But I’m curious if anything I’m going to say resonates with you or something that you went through. I heard so many people talk about when you become a parent, there’s this like instant bond, there’s this feeling of incredible love, it’s this connection. And I felt horrible that I didn’t feel those things. What I felt was this overwhelming sense of responsibility. Like this was, sounds bad to use the word weight, but it was a weight that was on my shoulders because I will be a parent for the rest of my life. And I am responsible for this human being incredibly so right now.

Less so as they get older, but still, you know, it’s a job that I can’t quit kind of a thing. Is any of this ring true for you? Did you go through any of those feelings?

Jessica McClain : I did. And when it comes to parenting, and no matter what, how many books you read, classes you take, everyone’s experience is different. Whether as a woman, if you’re pregnant, and that experience, the delivery, what it’s like after giving birth. I mean, it is just so different.

So there’s no one way to have the experience or this particular feeling. But I did feel that a little bit because again, I had this partner path, I had this track that I was on and I felt like I’m having to choose between work and family. And I felt like that I felt a little guilt like, man, if, you know, if I was an apparent, I could continue on this path.

But I had to say, God said, no, that’s not the path for you. I got something better. And so once I was able to take a step back and say, okay, it’s not in my hands. God has a different path for me.

And I got to follow it and trust it. And then the time I spent between leaving public accounting and joining nonprofit space, the time I had with my child, my oldest child, my daughter, because I had struggles before I even had her. So it didn’t make me more appreciative when she got here, although that guilt was a bit there. But it is tough. I mean, it is tough.

I don’t care if you are what parent you are. It’s one of the toughest jobs and you’re right. It just doesn’t just go away.

It’s always there and you’re going to have different emotions and different experiences over time. Again, I just got out of potty training. So for me, I’m celebrating. Finally, they were potty training. That’s a big milestone for me.

Anthony Codispoti : That is a big milestone. Have you been able to get rid of all the diapers?

Jessica McClain : Are they still there for like nighttime? All the pull ups, diapers gone. Everything’s gone. Okay, but you got pull up. You’re doing pull ups now. Nope, they’re gone. Oh, the pull ups are gone too. They’re all gone.

I’m done. Oh, that is a big moment. Congratulations.

Yeah. And hearing you talk reminds me a lot about my wife’s experience. And I think that I really do believe it’s probably harder for the mothers because she thought that once we started having kids that she would want to stay home, work from the home, be a stay at home mom. That’s kind of what she thought. And as she spent some time doing that, and she felt pulled back to her career that she had gone through a lot of education to be able to qualify for and had put in a lot of years to get the experience to be really, very good at, now she felt really bad about herself. That somehow makes her a bad mother that she loves her kids and wants to spend time with them. And she also wants a career at the same time. Like what did that say about her that she didn’t want to be at home with them all the time? And I know there was a lot of conflict there for her. And I’ve talked with other professional women who have gone through similar feelings of guilt.

It sounds like you’ve processed a lot of that as well. And I will say there’s no one way for some women, they want to stay at home. I knew some that did it up through a big kindergarten, others did it longer. There’s no one way or right or wrong way of what makes sense for the mom and the family. So I would never judge a woman who said, I’d rather go into work or I want to stay home for five years or 10 years or the whole 18 years. Never would I ever judge a mother for that.

And no matter what, we’re going to feel guilt. But I understand the feeling of I took time off between leaving public accounting and going to the nonprofit space and I was home with my daughter a lot. But I was like your wife. I want to get back into the workplace. And I had to work through putting up the boundaries and communicating to employers what I needed as a mom. And I don’t even like to use the word working mom or working mother because as a mom, you’re working. You just make the decide to work outside of the home, work time, full time, seasonally, whatever that looks like for you. So I don’t like to use the word working mom just because all mothers being a mom is work. It’s just how if you decide to work outside of the home.

Anthony Codispoti : That was something that a friend helped me with years ago. How to sort of phrase that question. Are you working? Well, if you’re a mom, 100%, you’re doing a lot of work. Are you working outside the home is sort of a better way to phrase it. Just sort of like in general conversation, hey, what’s going? You had a baby? Great. What’s going on? Like, are you working outside the home? Are you staying home? Would you agree that that’s a better way to kind of approach that topic? Absolutely.

Jessica McClain : But I didn’t understand it to becoming a mother and I heard someone say that as a mom, I work. I made the side to work outside of the home and I use air quotes even then because you could be remote and work inside the house and still be home. Oh, now with, you know, how many of us are working now? And again, I seem to want to do it on a part time basis, a seasonal basis, full time.

There, you know, there is no one way to do it. It’s what makes what is best for you and your family. And it’s when we just judge each other, they decide to stay home, not stay home, work part time, full time, because it’s what them and their family needs and what makes them as most sense for them.

Anthony Codispoti : Jessica, did you feel like that guilt was coming all from internal from you or did you feel judgment from anybody on the outside?

Jessica McClain : Internal to me. Yeah. I would say internal to me. The village I have, whether it was, you know, my mother-in-law, my mom and coworkers, you know, they were like, if you want to take a step back, it’s okay. And if you don’t, it’s okay. I put that pressure on myself and that’s where the guilt came from.

Anthony Codispoti : You’ve mentioned curiosity already, but aside from that, what would you define as your superpower, Jessica?

Jessica McClain : Oh, my love of learning. That is the number one superpower is that, but if I had to pick a second one and I’m still on this particular journey is the authenticity and empathy or other two. It took time for me to really feel comfortable being who I am and showing how I do in the workplace.

And I will give you an example. I didn’t wear my hair like this for a while. I usually wore it straight because of how some people perceived, you know, an African-American woman with braids versus straighter hair. It took a while to feel comfortable doing that. Now, after having my kids, this is so much easier to maintain with all the craziness I deal with at home, but this is who I am. And I felt more, a lot more comfortable showing up being who I am. And I know that helps others as well. But other pieces, empathy. And I would say that especially in the last few years, I mean, with people, with people dealt with, with COVID, I mean, being sick, losing family members, taking care of family members, taking care of family members who have long COVID.

You’re trying to be a parent at home, but you’re still working at home and trying to teach your kids second grade math and algebra. I mean, people were just going through it and people really didn’t need to have an ear to be able to vent and be able to share their struggles. And so it’s something I have worked to improve on is being that ear and thinking about people first and things and not processes and technology, but the people and how decisions are made, how the people is really another superpower that I’m continuing to grow and work on.

Anthony Codispoti : You mentioned your hair and not being comfortable to wear it in braids before. What was the concern there?

Jessica McClain : Unfortunately, there was some bias that that is is and I would say has been an is out there.

Anthony Codispoti : Like it’s wearing braids for an African American. It’s not professional. It’s too black. Is that what the concern? Okay. Okay.

Jessica McClain : It was not seen as professional to where you’re here and for African American women in certain styles. Well, we call more natural styles, whether I have a, you know, short hair, do a mini fro, I may have the braids. It just wasn’t seen as professional, unfortunately. And so for a while, I did not wear my hair that way.

But after I had kids and know the convenience of wearing my hair in this fashion and I love how it looks. I show up like this. I take pictures like this. This is how I show up. And it’s authentically me.

Anthony Codispoti : And so did you just have to give yourself permission to do that? Or did somebody else kind of make you more comfortable to do that?

Jessica McClain : Oh, I’d have to say a little bit of both. But part of it is was me after becoming a mom. How can I make life a bit easier for myself? And one thing was my hair instead of going to hair salon every two weeks, I get the braids, they last longer. I can wake up and go.

It’s less work. And let’s me, I became a new mom. That was, I mean, that was a game changer for me right there, but also starting to see others wearing it. And I’m like, no, I can be professional and be seen as professional with my hair in different ways. And some days I may have it out in a ponytail. Some days I have the braids in. I like to switch it up sometimes.

Anthony Codispoti : Uh, has anybody ever made a comment?

Jessica McClain : No, most people say it’s beautiful. I mean, I have people of all different backgrounds and races and say, oh, wow, I love the color in it. I love the style. It’s beautiful. So some people, part of it was just me and how I felt that what’s, I think society, some of the signals that society has sent before.

Anthony Codispoti : I get that. Um, how about some daily practices that kind of help you along Jessica, whether it’s to start your day or keep you on track as the day moves along.

Jessica McClain : The biggest one. And again, with my crazy schedule with work and young kids and all over the place, it’s prayer. That’s the one thing I can easily make sure I take time for the beginning of the day or even in the evening before I go to bed, just showing, you know, my Lord of savior, the gratitude for being able to wake up in the morning that my family made it through the day. We all made it home safely.

And I, you know, made it, made it through the day, despite how difficult the day may have been, cause we all have those tough days, uh, but just showing the gratitude. And so prayer is the one thing that is a constant. Now, some of the other things I wish I had more time to meditate and work out. It’s let us easy with my schedule. Um, I’m going to get there one day and working on it. Oh, but that’s the number one thing for me.

Anthony Codispoti : It keeps me grounded as well. Prayer happened in the morning throughout the day.

Jessica McClain : It’s usually in the morning in the evening, cause it’s usually, I can get some other silence before I get my kids up in the morning. And then the evenings, once I can get them to bed, again, I can have that, that quiet time.

Anthony Codispoti : I want to go back to sort of talking about your team there at Girl Scouts. Uh, how many folks report to you directly?

Jessica McClain : Directly six, but indirectly through the chain of reporting is about 25. Okay. Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti : As you think about, you’ve, you know, you’ve been at much bigger companies before, as you think about sort of the, how to build your team from, you know, recruiting them, you know, through the hiring process, once you’ve got folks that are good and how to retain them, what are some things, some strategies that you’ve tried that you have found success with? You got to get to know people.

Jessica McClain : We have to get to know people, know what’s important to them, what motivates them, what their pet peeves are, um, understanding how they want to be recognized, how they see growth, and then taking that feedback along the way. Again, I haven’t always made it right and perfect.

I had an employee who left at one point and I could have did a better job and how I recognize them because I wasn’t recognizing them the way they want it to be recognized and appreciate it.

Anthony Codispoti : Oh, sort of like their, their love language, if you will.

Jessica McClain : Love language work. There’s actually a book, I can’t really tell the book, but they see, they’re a love languages for work, just like we have them in personal relationships and understanding it looks different to everyone in that some of the, the driving motivation behind some people, some people, it’s money, some people, it’s purpose, you know, some people share more than others, but taking the time to get to know each person individually and showing that you care. I mean, that right there is very important and you have to be intentional when you do it. You have to be intentional, but you also have to be authentic in it. What you don’t want to have is that have communication or coming off in a way where people don’t like, Oh, they don’t really care how my weekend went. They don’t really care what’s going on in my life. No, I do care because that actually shows up at work. Surprisingly, it actually does.

Anthony Codispoti : You ask the question, actually listen for the answer. Exactly.

Jessica McClain : And just listen, not giving advice. Sometimes it’s literally just listening. There are times where people have shared things and I say, you know what, I can relate because I’ve been through that. What others just say, I’m just here to listen if you want to talk.

That’s it. I have, I don’t have advice. I’m just here to be an ear. Um, but at the same time saying, let me know what you need. And some people, it’s, you know, I need to take all time for this. I need to do this. I need to switch this schedule for the day. That’s what I need to manage something I’m dealing with that the moment.

Anthony Codispoti : Boy, that, that is such a good reminder, even for me to hear. Um, because I joke about this with my wife sometimes where she comes to me and she wants to unload about her day. And I go into fix it mode, right? I am like, Oh, well, here are the three things that you should do to address this. And I’ve gotten just a little bit better at this, Jessica, but, uh, not great at it.

And saying, okay, wait, do you just want me to listen? Do you want advice? Do you want a hug? Those are, and maybe the hug is less appropriate in a business setting, depending on how close you are with folks, but, um, I think it’s oftentimes helpful to sort of go into a conversation laying out those options. Am I here, you know, as an ear, you know, like an ear slash shoulder, or are you looking for advice so that talking about those love languages, you’re kind of giving back that person, what it is that they’re looking for in the moment.

Jessica McClain : No, absolutely. It’s, it’s some time it really is, I’m just an ear. I’m here to listen. And again, people share varying degrees of their personal life. I have some people that work with me that they very private and that’s perfectly fine. But I just expressed to them, I am here if you need me. And I’ll leave it at that. Well, others would come share every, every life story in every moment.

And that’s fine too. I want to celebrate your milestones. I want to celebrate your successes. I want to hear about your challenges. Um, so by doing that, that’s how you have a good team of people that are committed and are engaged.

Anthony Codispoti : Just if you were to recommend a resource to our listeners, be it a book, a podcast, a course, what would it be? Something that’s been helpful to you that you think others could get value from.

Jessica McClain : The one that I have to bring up and I got this book when I became manager at Grand Thornton, promoted at Grand Thornton and they gave everyone of all of the new managers a book called What Got You Here, Won’t Get You There by Marshall Goldsmith.

I think his name is correctly. And it’s interesting for anyone transitioning from a, you know, individual contributor role to a supervisory role is so important. In public account, we always said your two biggest or most difficult jumps or promotions are to manager and partner. And the reason I share that when I have shared it for many years is that what made you successful as an individual contributor is very different with what makes you successful in a management role, because then it becomes way more about people. Less of the day to day tasks, but you’re dealing with personnel matters, people, and there’s a lot of complexity within that. Um, and even how success is defined when you’re an individual contributor, contributor versus someone in a supervisory role. And so I definitely recommend that book for someone making certain jumps or leaps within their career. Um, and something that has stuck with me and I share all the time.

Anthony Codispoti : This is interesting. I’m kind of get, you know, curious to get your take on this because yeah, not everybody who is good at a operational role will also be good in a managerial role or they may not even enjoy it. Um, and so it’s kind of important to understand that about yourself that if you, you know, get to sort of the top tier of the operational rung and that is where you’re comfortable and you’re happy and you don’t want to kind of step into more authority, then that’s okay. What is maybe one thing either from your direct experience or from that book or both that, um, you could pass along to the audience.

Here’s one thing in particular. If you decide that this is something you want, you want to get from here to there, you want to level up that would be a good piece of advice for folks.

Jessica McClain : I would say understanding what it means to be a management role. There seems to be for some people, it’s like a black box and it really isn’t, but it’s having conversations with those that are in a management role, job shadowing them, truly understand it’s not just a title. It’s not just about the money. There’s a lot more responsibility. There’s risk that comes with that as well and taking the time to understand what that is, to then really make an informed decision is management where I want to be and maybe not now, maybe it’s something I want to do later and understanding what that change is. It’s something I learned going through public accounting, like, do I really want to be a partner as I learned more of what that meant from a risk perspective, financial perspective? I don’t know if this is really for me. And I think by having those conversations, you’re again, making an informed decision for yourself instead of leaping into something because of the status with a title or the money and not realizing it wasn’t the move I should have made or even made now. It may not be your time yet.

Anthony Codispoti : For people who have been involved with Girl Scouts, Nations Capital, are there any exciting changes that are coming that, you know, they may not recognize that, you know, you’re particularly excited about putting in place?

Jessica McClain : Well, one thing we should be excited about, and it is a great, great, great thing. We are hosting the National Convention next July, July 2026. So every three years, we have a national council session where all Girl Scouts within youth members, adult members, all the team members, staff members come together from, it’s more of a part of it is a governance meeting that takes place with our board of national board of directors.

There’s also programming, et cetera, for our Girl Scouts. And it moves to different councils or different cities about every three years. And it’s coming to DC in 2026. So Girl Scouts, we are going to take over, and I mean take over Washington, DC.

Okay. You’re going to have thousands of Girl Scouts that are going to be there celebrating what we do, celebrating who we are. And there’s going to be a lot of exciting things coming up over the course of the next year.

I can’t go into those yet and share those that are lead up to that. But we’re very excited to be able to host convention and what that means in highlighting specifically, not even just Girl Scouts worldwide, but also specifically in the Washington, DC metro area with our Girl Scouts in Maryland, Washington, Northern Virginia and the Eastern Panhandle West Virginia. We’re going to show up and show out and show the world who we are.

Anthony Codispoti : Oh, I like that. That sounds powerful. What are the specific dates for that? You said 2026.

Jessica McClain : I think it’s the 22nd to the 26th of July. I hope I got it right. Okay.

Anthony Codispoti : Well, I’m sure somebody can go online and Google it.

Jessica McClain : Oh, absolutely. You’ll get a registered registration has recently opened up. So come on down, come on down to DC.

Anthony Codispoti : Um, just got, here’s an interesting question for you. You know, sometimes we all make mistakes, right? Um, but, you know, personal lives in our careers. And I have the tendency anyways, when I make a mistake, I really beat myself up over it. Sometimes as I look in the rear view mirror at a mistake that happened a while ago, um, I can actually find gratitude in my heart for that because in a weird way, it actually steered me in a different direction. It kept me from going down a wrong path. It helped me open up a new door or it taught me a lesson in a really powerful way that I was, you know, able to leverage in the future. You have any of those moments that you can think of where there was a past mistake that now you look back at your grateful for.

Jessica McClain : Oh yeah. That’s almost every mistake because I really believe you learned from them, whether personally or professionally. Um, of course I’ve sat back on how I’ve handled myself in different difficult situations with difficult people. I say at the time, as long as humans are around, we’re always going to have difficulty with colleagues and co-workers, et cetera. Um, but I’ve had to learn how to better manage my emotions during the, um, during difficult conversations, um, that I’m listening better and doing that.

Um, so I probably said one of the biggest thing. One of the biggest parts of my journey when it comes to even the people aspect, I’ve talked about people before, but not always with people that, oh, Jessica’s great or they’re great, even in working with people that where we really don’t see eye to eye. Sometimes we, you know, we have disagreements. I don’t run from conflict. I think conflict is natural. I mean, we have it in our families. We’re going to have it professionally. It’s just how it’s handled and how it’s addressed as what’s important.

Um, cause there’s always going to be there that that doesn’t change. And I do beat myself up a lot. I can get down on myself because it’s why did I think of this or why did I say it that way? And it takes some time to kind of get over that initial cringe, um, to be able to say, okay, what do I take from this? What do I learn from this? Whether it’s something I can improve for myself, but also it’s a story that I could share with others, um, as well.

Anthony Codispoti : You know, I think I may have mentioned in this interview, uh, father to two young boys, they’re nine and 11. And, um, this is a lesson that I struggle, um, to figure out how to teach to them. And maybe their brain development, it’s just too early on sort of that ability to look back at, you know, not doing well on a test or not performing well in a sporting event or a spelling bee or what it, and you know, using that as an inflection point for change. It’s like, okay, well, that didn’t go well. You know, could you have prepared differently or, you know, could, and then they, they instantly turned to what you were just describing there where they, you know, they just get hard on themselves.

And I’m stupid and I’m an idiot, you know, and I did. And it’s interesting for me to sort of observe that thought process because I think, you know, down inside we’re all still little kids, right? And so when you see it more raw and exposed coming through in them, it, it’s sort of a reflection back on, you know, who we are as big kids as adults, uh, you know, and what sort of our natural tendencies are that maybe we’ve done a better job of masking or talking ourselves out of. And so, you know, you’re, you’re a mother of, you know, uh, younger kids, it sounds like, but I don’t know, do you think about things in that way in terms of like human psychology and noticing what goes on in your kids and sort of how that translates into you or your coworkers?

Jessica McClain : Well, that’s a great story. Anthony, I started to see it, especially in my, my oldest child, my daughter, um, who was six. Um, and whether it’s, she didn’t do well and she’s working on a homework assignment and I don’t get it and I don’t understand it and I don’t know. And I can see the frustration building or, you know, she does gymnastics. I could have did this backflip better. And I say, well, mommy couldn’t do the black backflip.

So you did better than I could. Um, but seeing how, how hard she is on herself. I’m like, wow, it shows up in such an early age. And so sometimes I have to remind myself, all right, Jessica, you just had a conversation with your daughter two days ago about telling her that it’s okay. You may have a bad day and things happen. I have to remind myself of that same conversation that I would have just had with my daughter two days before.

Anthony Codispoti : And I’ll get so frustrated with my kids because I’m like, don’t be so hard on yourself. And then I have to step back and be like, that’s what I do.

That’s sort of human nature coming through. So Jessica, I’ve just got one more question for you. But before I ask it, I want to do two things. First, I’m going to invite all listeners to just take a moment, pause and go hit the follow button on your favorite podcast app. Uh, we’ve had a great interview today here with Jess McClain from Girl Scouts Nations Capital. And I want you to continue to get more wonderful content like this. Jessica, I also want to let people know the best way either to get in touch with you or to continue to follow your story. What would that be?

Jessica McClain : Follow me on LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn. I’m there all the time. Um, you could find Jessica E. McClain. I have a lot of letters behind my last name. Uh, you could see my Girl Scout uniform as well. But that’s how you could follow me and know what’s going on. And I’d love to connect, love to connect with people.

Anthony Codispoti : Love it. And we’ll include a link to that in the show notes. So last question for you, Jessica, you and I reconnect a year from now and you’re celebrating, you’re excited. There’s this one thing. What’s that one thing that you’re celebrating?

Jessica McClain : One thing it’s simple as it sounds being here on this earth and being healthy. I lost my mother-in-law, uh, back at the end of last year. And it really just felt like, wow, how quickly life can just go in that day to day mundane and work and kids and this and that. Um, and just celebrated the fact that I’m here. The family’s here hopefully and we’re healthy. That is a huge celebration in itself.

Anthony Codispoti : I love it. The beauty is in the simplicity of it. Yeah. Jessica McClain from Girl Scout Nations Capital. I want to be the first to thank you for sharing with your time and your story with us today. I really appreciate it.

Jessica McClain : Oh, thank you. I appreciate being on the platform. I’m very honored and humble as well.

Anthony Codispoti : Folks, that’s a wrap on another episode of the inspired stories podcast. Thanks for learning with us today.