Relationships First: Terri Lawson-Adams’ Healthcare Staffing Model

Intro  

Welcome to another edition of inspired stories where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes, how they’ve overcome adversity, and explore current challenges they’re facing.

Anthony Codispoti (09:42.95)
Welcome to another edition of the inspired stories podcast where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired by how they’ve overcome adversity. My name is Anthony Cotaspodi and today’s guest is Terry Lawson Adams, CEO and founder of Ellsworth healthcare staffing, a full servants agency committed to providing strategic solutions for medical staffing needs. They have created a trusted network to deliver the best talent in a wide range of healthcare specialties.

Founded in Tucker, Georgia, they work around the clock to provide contract hiring, direct hire, and executive search services, whether that be for medical facilities across the state of Georgia or throughout the nation. You can find them online at ehstaffing.com. We will hear about Terri’s path from college to politics to being a business owner in a different type of business before the idea to get started in medical staffing occurred to her. Now, before we get into all that good stuff,

Today’s episode is brought to you by my company, Adback Benefits Agency, where we offer very specific and unique employee benefits that are both great for your team and fiscally optimized for your bottom line. One recent client was able to add over $900 per employee, per year, and extra cash flow by implementing one of our proprietary programs. Results vary for each company and some organizations may not be eligible. To find out if your company qualifies, contact us today at adbackbenefitsagency.com.

Now, back to our guest today, the CEO and founder of Ellsworth Healthcare Staffing, Terry Adams. I appreciate you making this time to share your story today.

Terri Lawson-Adams (11:18.83)
Thank you for having me.

Anthony Codispoti (11:20.774)
Okay, Terry, so before we get into the origin story of EH staffing, tell us in your own words what it does. What specifically does Ellsworth Healthcare Staffing focus on?

Terri Lawson-Adams (11:34.04)
So Ellsworth Healthcare Staffing basically is a healthcare staffing agency that focuses on placing nurses and physician staffing in particular. We currently work with a lot of different agencies or organizations, be it schools, clinics, or healthcare facilities. And we’re also right now working into getting into the government space.

Anthony Codispoti (12:00.702)
Okay, and so when you talk about contracts and direct hire, this doesn’t include temporary or PRN placements, is that correct?

Terri Lawson-Adams (12:14.638)
That’s correct. So PRN placement is basically when a facility calls and say, Hey, I need two nurses to work nine to five tomorrow. And then they may not call again for another month or two. Contract staffing is when they call and say, Hey, I need a nurse to work or two nurses to work for a year or five years or even 12 weeks. But it’s more of contract as opposed to just

one-offs basically.

Anthony Codispoti (12:46.502)
It seems to me like the model that you have settled with with the contract hiring versus PRN would be a lot more stable and sort of easier to plan for versus you’ve got somebody that says, Hey, I just need somebody today or tomorrow. And now you’ve got to go and find somebody who’s available just for a day. my thinking right in that?

Terri Lawson-Adams (13:06.038)
Yes, actually it’s right and we learned it. I guess the heartbeat trial and error when we first started We work with a consultant who suggested that we start that way And it was really really difficult. So what we were doing basically was Let’s let me back up first. We didn’t have a business in actual staffing or staffing agency, right? I had I had experience in recruiting

but not really running an agency. So hired a consultant to help us kind of get started. And that consultant suggested that we start with PRN staffing, which was very difficult. So what we were doing basically, we would go out, we knew we were wanting to focus on, at that time it was CNAs and nurses. We knew we wanted to focus on them. So we started recruiting CNAs and nurses. We started credentialing them.

doing background checks. So if you called or any other facility called and say, hey, I need someone tonight or I need someone tomorrow, we thought they’ll be ready to go because we have a bench of players per se, right? That can basically, they’re ready to go when you call. Well, it’s not that simple because if you go ahead and recruit or hire a hundred people, you credential them, you do the background checks, you do drug tests.

and they’re ready to go. But you wait for the facility to call. The facility may or may not call. When they do call, you want work so you may go and have another job. So it’s really, really hard. It’s hard to plan. It’s hard to forecast. So it’s just really difficult. So we learned the hard way, but that’s how we started.

Anthony Codispoti (14:53.778)
And it sounds like it would be rather costly. mean, if you’re talking about building up a bench of a hundred people, you’ve had to do background checks that cost money. You’ve had to do drug tests that cost money, you know, without the assurance that you’ve got an opportunity to place this person.

Terri Lawson-Adams (15:07.48)
We did background checks, we did drug tests, also did, so we had to do all the credentialing and we also did testing to make sure that they were, they had the skills and ability to perform the job. So we spent all of this money and of course we didn’t get a return on investment because we just lost so much money. Most of the people were gone by the time we got a job for them. Or if they worked one shift or two shifts, then they’re gone after that.

Anthony Codispoti (15:28.496)
So.

Anthony Codispoti (15:35.551)
So you had a background in the staffing industry, but not specifically in healthcare staffing. What was behind the decision to focus exclusively on healthcare industry?

Terri Lawson-Adams (15:47.992)
Well, let me back up. So my background initially was in campaign management, political consultant. I did a lot of political campaigns, some political consultant. I worked with a few elected officials and I helped with hiring. So that was my background at that time. Now I don’t know you want me to go into how it led to Ellsworth Healthcare Staffing, but that was the background.

Anthony Codispoti (16:07.144)
Okay.

Anthony Codispoti (16:14.014)
I want to hear a little bit about the experience in the political arena. Was that something you always wanted to get into or did that kind of happen by mistake?

Terri Lawson-Adams (16:24.708)
Well, actually, when I was an undergrad, I always liked political things, right? So I followed politics and I was a business major. And a lot of people were like, you should go to law school or you should go into political science. I said, no, but I got a job one summer working with the legislature in Louisiana and I loved it. And then I got a job working with a Senator in Louisiana.

loved it, started, and that basically changed everything. So I thought, okay, I want to do political politics, working to try to make a difference and a change. So like I said, working with elected officials, helping with campaign management, political consultant, was what I liked doing for a while until I had kids and found out it was really difficult because it’s almost like a 24-7 job.

Anthony Codispoti (17:21.288)
Did you find the political work as fulfilling and rewarding as you had hoped it would be? Kind of go into it idealistic, like I want to make a difference. Did you feel like that was actually happening?

Terri Lawson-Adams (17:33.538)
And in beginning I did. And then after a while, you know, I saw some things in politics that were not what I expected. I thought everything was rosy, I guess. And it was fulfilling, but there were things that I just did not like in politics.

Anthony Codispoti (17:50.716)
Yeah. So that combined with, now you’re a mother and this doesn’t mesh well because politics requires you to kind of be on call on the clock 24 seven. And so what was the next idea? What was the next phase of your life, Terry?

Terri Lawson-Adams (18:05.742)
So after I got to a point where I felt like I wasn’t parenting my kids, the nanny was raising the kids, it almost seemed like. And so that was really difficult for me. so I thought, and then the job itself that I was working in at the time was just so demanding and very stressful. So I decided to leave and be a stay at home mom, I thought. But it was really difficult.

Anthony Codispoti (18:15.815)
Mm.

Terri Lawson-Adams (18:34.968)
to be a stay at home mom for me. I always felt like I needed to do something. So my next phase was I thought, okay, well, what can I do to still make a difference? Cause it was always, I want to do something to leave an impact, make a difference. So I thought, what can I do? And try to decide, try to figure it out and said, I needed to do something where I still have time for my kids. I can go and volunteer at school, on field trips with them or whatever I needed to do and still work.

That was difficult. was helping my husband with his business a little and then I went into buying some real estate and I thought well, maybe this would be it because I have flexibility but You know if you buy a house and you’re holding it right you buy it you put a tenant in You don’t have anything else to do unless you know, they call and say hey the toilets broken and then you call a contractor So what that was difficult?

I looked and then I purchased a franchise And it was I did I guess it was a tax franchise It was something I went into really just for I wanted to I thought make a difference, but also I thought it would help with Doing something right? I always had this passion for business as well. So I thought okay, this would be a great business It would be a turnkey operation

I can have the flexibility with kids. But it was something I really didn’t like. doing something you really don’t like, you’re not going to be successful in it. And so I eventually sold the practice.

Anthony Codispoti (20:16.958)
So from politics to mom to real estate to tax franchise, a couple of questions along the way. So I’ve talked with other guests about this, this idea of mom guilt, right? Like you’re a smart, professional woman. You’ve been enjoying a career. You like that. You have a child, love the child. Think I’m going to be a stay at home mom. This is my new passions, my new thing. And that ends up being a much harder transition for

a lot of people, a lot of women than I think they expect. And I saw my wife go through this. And there was a time where she thought, okay, yes, we have the flexibility, I’m gonna be a stay-at-home mom. And then it pretty quickly became clear that that was not wholly fulfilling for her. And she felt terrible about that. Like it somehow it made her a bad person or a bad mother, that she wanted to go back to work. She had friends there, she had gone to school for her career.

you know, practiced it a lot. you know, she was good at it. She wanted to keep doing that. I’m curious if it was a similar kind of experience for you.

Terri Lawson-Adams (21:24.992)
Yes, I had lots of guilt. I guess the first thing was I was really Passionate about making sure are really concerned. guess most parents are about making sure their kids are happy and healthy I had premature my daughter was pretty much actually both of my kids were premature and so That was so important that I wanted to make sure they got the best Because I wanted to be there for them to give them everything they needed to make sure they were healthy and thriving kids

So being at home, I thought could do it. But then like you said, I felt guilty I felt good. Well first I felt guilty when I wasn’t at home Because I felt like I should be with them the nannies raising them then I felt guilty when I was home and I wasn’t doing I wasn’t working I felt like I always wanted to be this career woman and here I am stay at home mom So I had this these conflicting feelings and emotions constantly

Anthony Codispoti (22:18.622)
you

Terri Lawson-Adams (22:22.8)
And again, so I kept thinking why I can do something that won’t really take me away from them when they’re in school. I can do this when you know, and then when they’re not in school, I can be with them. And it was just really, really difficult and something about saying, I’m a stay at home mom. Just, I don’t know, because I always wanted to be this career woman that it was challenging for me. You know, some people are fine either way, you know,

Anthony Codispoti (22:44.179)
Mm-hmm.

Terri Lawson-Adams (22:51.768)
I have friends who say I will never stay at home. I’m a professional and this is what I’m gonna do. Then I have some friends who say I am dedicated to my kids and I’m never going back to work until my kids are out of the home. And here I am in the middle. So I thought a lot of times what’s wrong with me? So it was really difficult.

Anthony Codispoti (23:15.484)
Yeah. Yeah. It’s like, you know, parts of your identity are fractured. Right. You had this, you had this identity as a professional woman. Now you’re also a mother and you want to be a professional woman. And how do I sort of straddle these two worlds? It could be challenging. So you had the idea to go into real estate because that’ll give you some extra flexibility. But like you pointed out, you get a tenant in, like there’s not whole lot more work to do for the most part. So you had the idea to buy a tax franchise. Did you have a background in tax?

Terri Lawson-Adams (23:43.672)
used to do a lot of taxes in undergrad for people and so yes, somewhat. So let me tell you, so the real estate, was most likely, I guess in particular, it was my grandfather when I was growing up always talked about financial independence, about investing money, about doing things that’s gonna help you when you’re older and to the…

create some generational wealth. And I have a brother who did really well, or still does, in real estate investing. So that’s how I thought about the real estate part of it. You know, I still have properties, but it wasn’t a full-time thing. I didn’t go all in. I wasn’t buying a hundred houses at a time, like some people I know, or 50 houses at a time, or, you know, these huge apartment complexes.

but that was the reason why I did it. But I thought it would have been more fulfilling. Like I said, I still have properties. It’s fulfilling in the sense that I know I provide affordable housing for people who could not otherwise afford a home. so, you know, so I still feel like I’m giving back some kind of way or doing something to make a difference, but it’s not a full-time job.

Anthony Codispoti (25:08.35)
So I think it’s helpful to kind of hear this path because listeners may not realize that people who eventually find and create a successful business, it’s usually not the first thing that they’ve tried. There’s been a path along the way where they’ve picked up skills, they’ve learned lessons, and then they find the thing that just sort of clicks for them, which seems like it’s the healthcare staffing industry for you. How did the idea to start this first come up then? Let’s talk a little bit more about

Terri Lawson-Adams (25:38.552)
So healthcare staffing came up after I saw my franchise and I was trying to figure out what am I going to do? What’s the next move? And I, you know, thought about it for a while. Couldn’t figure out what that would be. And I kept thinking, I love helping people find jobs. And so I would connect people sometimes. They would say, hey, can you call, you know, the senator to ask him, can he help me with a job or.

You know, senator may call me and say, can you help me fill this position? So I was always connecting people and it felt good to help people find jobs and they help people who are looking for candidates get jobs filled for them. And so I kept thinking, well, maybe I should do health while staffing. But then I would kind of dismiss the idea because I felt like I did not have experience to do a, a staffing agency. And then my mother.

fell in 2016 she was in a hospital and while she was there We were noticing we were having issues with nurses They you know, we’ll call a nurse and nurse wouldn’t come and it was just so many issues with the nurses and I remember speaking with the director of nursing to complain and then she had me talk to Chief medical officer and we were just talking and they were saying to me basically that they had staffing issues

And they were telling me that they were changing their MSP. And at the time, of course, I had no idea what MSP was. The only thing I knew was I needed a nurse for my mom. And so I remember that evening thinking, maybe I should do something in healthcare staffing. Maybe I should help staff nurses because I saw there was an issue. I dismissed it, but then move forward. A couple of weeks later, my mom’s in rehab and the rehab facility.

there were issues with staffing as well. I remember sitting down speaking to the executive director there complaining. And I even said, well, let me help you find an agency. So I’m looking for an agency for her and they didn’t have a contract with them. And this was after hours. And so you couldn’t get through. And so I started thinking then maybe this is what I should do. I recognize that how families feel when their loved one is

Anthony Codispoti (27:58.27)
Mm.

Terri Lawson-Adams (28:05.294)
having a medical challenge and they don’t have the care that they expect or deserve because of staffing shortage. Then I also recognize that, so I would be helping the patient, the family, and then a facility that needs the staff that would also help them. And then of course, just helping people with jobs. So that’s when I decided I wanted to do healthcare staffing.

Anthony Codispoti (28:31.011)
So what is an MSP?

Anthony Codispoti (28:42.472)
So Terry, what is an MSP?

Terri Lawson-Adams (28:45.514)
managed service provider so hospitals and facilities sometime will hire one company to manage all of their staffing they contract labor for instance say you’re a hospital a hospital a can have a hundred different vendors that are helping staff the hospital right however instead of doing that they decided to do a managed service provider where they

take one staffing agency to give them all the jobs and that agency or managed service provider will send out the jobs to all of the agencies that work under them. it will, the managed service provider does the staffing for the hospital.

Anthony Codispoti (29:34.407)
So you’ve decided that you’re going to get into the healthcare staffing space. There’s a lot that you don’t know at this point, right? You’re just kind of putting your foot in the water for the first time. You mentioned that you hired a consultant. Was that a helpful step in that learning process?

Terri Lawson-Adams (29:50.986)
Well, I think every experience is a learning experience and a lesson, right? So no matter what, you know, it was an experience. kind of, it helped me a little. I, if I had to do it all over again, I probably would have done a little bit more research and had a different consultant maybe, but it taught me what not to do.

Anthony Codispoti (29:54.203)
No.

Terri Lawson-Adams (30:19.66)
but it did give me a foundation I will say that and so there’s a benefit like I said in every experience no matter what it is good or bad So there was some benefit but I think the biggest benefit I got was I met well, let me back up. So I was struggling to figure out this business, right? And my staff and I trying to figure it out and I thought you know, I need to join a trade organization that

Anthony Codispoti (30:19.87)
Okay.

Terri Lawson-Adams (30:48.524)
I can meet other people in the industry and learn from them. So I joined American Staffing Association. However, because I’m trying to run a business, I really didn’t have time to get involved. So I joined, but I didn’t have the time. And I was getting emails two, three, four a day from American Staffing. And of course I would just ignore them because I had no time. And one day,

Anthony Codispoti (30:52.136)
Mm-mm.

Terri Lawson-Adams (31:16.364)
I looked and I saw a guy speaking on it. There was an email from American staffing and they had a picture of him in head. was from Atlanta, Georgia. So I thought, hmm, he’s here in Atlanta. So I reached out to him, met with him. And I think that was a thing that kind of changed everything for me. He basically, he was a staff, he staffed physicians. So that was exciting because I had no idea when I reached out to him.

He staffed position. So he was in the health care space in addition to that He was very active when American Staffing Association And he said if I’m give you one piece of advice join American Staffing Association And I said, I’m already a member so he said well, need to get involved You need to go to their conferences and that changes everything for me because I went to the conference the conference was maybe in a couple of weeks and I thought I don’t think we can’t afford to I can’t afford to go to this conference. He was like

You gotta go to this conference. So I went and it just changed everything to open doors Now I can call people if I have questions or concerns about things So just really help me

Anthony Codispoti (32:27.784)
Did it help mostly from like an education standpoint, like here are some ways that you can think about finding clients and finding contract workers? Did it help because you were able to actually find clients there? Talk to me about the benefits.

Terri Lawson-Adams (32:44.42)
Well, the benefits were first of all, I was talking to other business owners in the staffing industry, right? And so if I needed a question about sales or recruiting or whatever, right? I can call them and say, Hey, I’m having a challenge with this. Can you help me? It also, I was able to join a different, they have different groups, right? Industry groups. So I was able to join a healthcare sector. And so the health sector was people that are all in healthcare.

So I was able to pick up the phone calling, but I have questions not necessarily. it didn’t necessarily help me with clients, but helped me to look at ways to find clients, look at different ways to do business. if I have questions about legal issues around staffing, ASA has a legal team. I can send the question to them. They can, you know, help me with it or answer it or give me some advice. so.

Anthony Codispoti (33:34.942)
Mm-hmm.

Terri Lawson-Adams (33:42.136)
That’s how it helps me. You know, I’m still very passionate about American Staff and Association and involved. I think it’s a wonderful organization. again, it’s, I would say anyone in staffing should be a member of American Staff and Association.

Anthony Codispoti (34:00.85)
Well, that is quite an endorsement. And I think I think you hit on a good point here. know, myself, having been in several businesses and talking to peers of mine and other guests, you know, one of the things that business owners face a lot is isolation. You know, we feel like we’re sort of alone. We don’t you know, our employees turn to us when they have questions and they need guidance. But who do we turn to? And when you can find

I call it a mastermind, a network, an industry association like that where there’s other like-minded people in a similar space. what a great group of people that you can lean on, that you can learn from and support each other. So I think it’s tremendous that you found me.

Terri Lawson-Adams (34:46.082)
It is, and I’ll tell you during a pandemic, American staffing started what I think is a brilliant idea. They started having these peer groups. So they will take, you wanted to be involved with people in a peer group. So was other business owners that were perhaps the same size as yours throughout the country. They would put you in a peer group. So.

We started, think our peer group started in 2020 and our group is still together today. we’ve had maybe one or two new members and we’ve lost a couple, but for the most part we’re still together. And so our peer group meet once a month and we just talk about our challenges, and help each other. So if you have challenge with sales, they may say, this is what I do to increase my sales or we’re recruiting, whatever it is we talk about.

different softwares, just strategies, you know, in general.

Anthony Codispoti (35:48.44)
So everybody who’s in this peer group, they’re also specifically in medical staffing, maybe they’re similar size companies.

Terri Lawson-Adams (35:53.194)
No, they’re a similar size. We’re in all different areas. I think there’s one lady in my group that does some medical staffing. There is two people in IT. There’s someone in light industrial. So we’re in different areas. There’s one in that minute, no, two in administrative staffing. I’m trying to think what the other two are in, but we’re all in different things. Some of us do.

just direct hire and that’s it. And then there are others that do contract staff.

Anthony Codispoti (36:27.316)
When you were first starting, I’m sorry, I cut you off there, Terry. Go ahead.

Terri Lawson-Adams (36:27.588)
Sorry.

Terri Lawson-Adams (36:31.884)
I say, or they do a combination of both, like we do.

Anthony Codispoti (36:36.159)
So when you were first starting out, decided to hire a consultant. I’m curious, did you consider maybe going the franchise route? You had done that before with the tax business. Was that a thought process here?

Terri Lawson-Adams (36:48.376)
Considered it my concern with franchise and not to put any franchises down because there are some benefits to a franchise, right? So you have basically when you have a franchise is a turn key operation, right? However, there’s limitations You have territory restrictions If you want to pivot to something else, you got to follow that franchise model franchise

Anthony Codispoti (37:12.733)
Yeah.

Terri Lawson-Adams (37:14.882)
You know, of course they do marketing for you, but you pay for marketing advertising in the franchise franchise fee and so all of those things royalties and advertising Cuts into your bottom line and in the beginning it’s helpful. But once you kind of figure out what you’re doing Then it could you know, it depending on the industry, right? It could be something where you just kind of feel like you’re just kind of giving money away Now granted you got the brain and recognition

Anthony Codispoti (37:40.231)
Yeah.

Terri Lawson-Adams (37:44.898)
consultant I felt was better because once I learned the business then I can do whatever I want and I don’t have to I’m not obligated to pay in a fee each month so they’re frozen kinds to us

Anthony Codispoti (37:58.642)
Where does the name Ellsworth come from?

Terri Lawson-Adams (38:01.476)
House word is actually my husband’s middle name. He really doesn’t like it. but I always thought my husband and my son has named a middle name elsewhere. I think it sounds distinguished and I love it. And so I’m like, okay, I’m going to use something. So that’s where it comes from.

Anthony Codispoti (38:07.88)
So you decided to put it out there for the world to see. You put it front and center, huh?

Anthony Codispoti (38:22.866)
How does he feel about the company name though?

Terri Lawson-Adams (38:25.548)
He’s okay now. My son at first is like, what are you doing? What? You know, but they’re fine with it now.

Anthony Codispoti (38:32.446)
Terry, what was it like running your business through COVID?

Terri Lawson-Adams (38:36.644)
COVID was very difficult. And actually I thought COVID was going to shut us down. were a new business, basically still almost in startup mode. COVID hit and we were basically at that time, we were doing home care services and we were also staffing at assistant living facilities and nursing homes. And that was our primary business. And we had just gotten a contract. We were…

subcontractors on a county contract. And the contract started January of 2020. So by March of 2020, the county sent something and said, and it was for home care. They shut down everything. So we were all excited, ramped up to do this contract, right? And it’s like our entrance into the government space.

and contracting and it was shut down. Then we had some, a lot of our facilities where we were staffing, either people, lot of people had COVID and they were dying from COVID or their loved ones was taking them out of the facility because they had so much COVID. And so we almost had no business and it was very scary. I remember thinking, how are we going to survive?

And then probably in, so this was March, by May, mid May, late May, we started getting calls for COVID related services. So first it was, we need people to do temperature checks. Then it was, we need people, want nurses. One of our biggest clients at the time was a art supply company, which was pretty odd. And they wanted all of these nurses around the clock.

Business exploded because people were at home right to shut up. So everybody wanted art supplies So they wanted to keep the business to keep you know, they want to keep the business flowing And so they wanted to make sure everyone was safe. So they wanted nurses there for emergency They wanted temperature checks. They wanted everything that tried as much as possible to keep everything going So we were staffing around the clock for them

Anthony Codispoti (40:37.465)
okay.

Terri Lawson-Adams (41:00.558)
Then we started getting, we’d already had staff at some schools, but then some of the schools were trying to figure out how they go back to school. And so they wanted to have people to do, at that point, that’s when I guess they had the vaccination came out. And so they wanted people to, they wanted to test the COVID testing. They wanted to make sure the temperature checks.

Anthony Codispoti (41:19.56)
Mm.

Terri Lawson-Adams (41:27.97)
So we had nurses for that. Then we had people do vaccinations. We were getting hospitals, mean, not hospitals, universities. Most of the major universities here called us and we either had people doing the temperature checks, COVID tests, the wellness center, the quarantine units. So COVID, we pivoted and that’s when I really learned about the contract staffing and how much easier it.

it was and how much more sense it made to do contract staffing as opposed to the PRN staffing. And from that, we also started getting some direct hire our executive search requests as well.

Anthony Codispoti (42:01.266)
Mmm.

Anthony Codispoti (42:11.996)
So that going through that whole process of COVID kind of led you into adjusting your business model to get away from PRM. More into contract hire, the direct placement. And so I’m curious, why do the hospitals come to you or the medical facilities come to you to find these folks to place there for periods of time rather than going and hiring people directly?

Terri Lawson-Adams (42:20.387)
Yes.

Terri Lawson-Adams (42:41.54)
Well, there are a few reasons. if your facility and your job basically is to make sure you take care of your patients, you may have some HR people, but sometimes they’re hard to fill roles and it takes up so much time, they will call an agency. A lot of times it’s because the agency, have a pool of people that we can get. That’s all we do all day, every day, right? And so we know different ways of trying to find people.

And their HR department may do some recruiting but they do a lot of HR things as well And so they’ll come for that a lot of times too. They’ll Want to try someone out before they go through hiring them, right? So if they do attempt to perm That means they can try someone’s almost like try before you buy right so they can try someone for three four months sometime even longer and See if they like them

Anthony Codispoti (43:16.776)
you

Anthony Codispoti (43:33.246)
Mm.

Terri Lawson-Adams (43:41.024)
And if they do, then they convert them to their payroll. when they’re working for us as contract employees, they’re our employees, they’re our employees. We pay taxes, we paid insurance, all of that. The facility doesn’t have to do any of it. Facility is just paying us. So, you know, we build facility, they pay us, they don’t have to worry about unemployment, any of those things that our agency will have to deal with.

Anthony Codispoti (43:58.61)
Mm-hmm.

Terri Lawson-Adams (44:10.372)
because they’re our employees. Now there are some agencies that don’t hire people correctly. They make them all 10 99s and not really employees. We don’t do that because, well, it’s the law that, you know, they’re supposed to be, they’re our employees. So we need to work. They need to work as W2 employees. We take out the taxes, we paid insurance, all of that. And so a facility will use an agency for those purposes, basically.

Anthony Codispoti (44:17.384)
Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (44:36.382)
It makes a lot of sense. mean, on the administrative side, it’s much easier, right? They don’t have to do the payroll taxes and all that kind of compliance. They just send you an invoice every month. And, you know, the other thing that you said made me realize it’s, you know, sort of like, okay, the hospital, they want to do some marketing. You know, do they have people inside the hospital that know something about marketing? Yeah, maybe, but chances are pretty good they’re going to go out and hire a specialist. They’re going to go out and hire a marketing agency to help them because

That’s what that company does all day, every day. They’ve got a lot of experience to pull from. It’s very similar, right? Yes, they’ve done some of their own hiring before, but there are lot of advantages to coming to, you know, Ellsworth Staffing and being able to tap into the experts who’ve got a pool of talent there, you know, that they can draw from. And the other thing that you mentioned that, you know, really turned a light on for me is this idea of sort of try before you buy, right? You get to date somebody before you decide if they’re a good cultural fit.

Terri Lawson-Adams (45:11.801)
Mm-hmm.

Anthony Codispoti (45:35.72)
for your organization and then it’s like, yes, this person has been fantastic. We would love to have them join us or you know what? I think it’s a good time for us to transition onto somebody else. So.

Terri Lawson-Adams (45:48.1)
Yes, that’s the advantage for the contract staffing. Of course, with executive search or direct hire, we’re just looking, we’re doing a search for them and you know, they’ll hire a person, but we do the search. We do all the interviewing, everything, and then we present them to the client. If the client’s interested, it’s a, you know, it’s a yay or nay, and then they’ll decide.

Anthony Codispoti (45:55.72)
Mm-mm.

Anthony Codispoti (46:10.204)
And that’s a time consuming process, right? To find those people, to just whittle it down to a list of folks that you want to interview, and then to whittle that down even further to, okay, here’s our recommendations. There’s a lot of value in that. You know, not having to chew up the time of the hospital staff to try to do that.

Terri Lawson-Adams (46:12.419)
It is.

Terri Lawson-Adams (46:29.507)
Yes.

Anthony Codispoti (46:31.374)
And so I’m curious, you know, because I talked to a lot of business owners and I continue to hear that it’s still a pretty tight labor market. Hard to find good folks, hard to hold on to good folks. Terry, in your position, what are some things that you’ve tried that have worked well, either from a recruiting standpoint or from a retention standpoint?

Terri Lawson-Adams (46:52.496)
I think the things that work well for us is that, again, we’re recruiting, we use different avenues. We don’t just go to one job board to look for people. We also have, because we have lots of database of clinicians that work for us, right? Or providers. We, a lot of times we go to them and they give us referrals. so we have a lot of connections with clinicians and providers that can give us, provide referrals.

We use several different avenues and tools to look for people as well. So that’s helped us. I think with retention, just treating people well, that’s helped. we also stay in contact with people even when they’re not on assignment or we don’t have an assignment for them. But I think it’s really important to try to treat people well, get to know them, understand their likes, their dislikes, their wants. And so we present opportunities for them.

Anthony Codispoti (47:32.274)
Yeah.

Terri Lawson-Adams (47:51.342)
that we know would be a good fit for them. We’re not just saying, hey, Anthony, we have a job for you and you’re a nurse. So this is, you you’re RN, here’s a job for you. Anthony, this is a job for you because we understand that you only want to work weekends. You want to have the week off to be with your kids or be available for them. So this, and it’s closer to your home. So we have that kind of knowledge and that relationship that we’ve built in the rapport with

the clinicians and providers. So I think that’s what also makes it a benefit to work with.

Anthony Codispoti (48:26.482)
you get to know the providers on a personal level, right? These are their likes, their dislikes, you know, what their preferences are. And so you’re not coming to them with 12 opportunities that don’t match what they’re looking for. You’re being respectful and saying, you know, Hey, we waited to contact you until we found something that we think is going to be a good fit for you. That develops a level of trust and respect.

Terri Lawson-Adams (48:49.24)
Yes. And now there’s some time, like I have a nurse who said, Hey, I only want to work this type of assignment at a private school. I don’t want anything else. I only want to work these hours, nothing else. And then she sees a job that we have posted, for our, let’s say a hospital. Then she’s like, I’m interested. Like, wait a minute. You said you were only interested. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that changed. So sometimes, you know,

Anthony Codispoti (49:14.174)
you

Terri Lawson-Adams (49:18.19)
Did their preferences do change? Are things that are important to you at one point is no longer important, you know? So yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (49:18.674)
We’re people, our preferences change, things change, circumstances change.

Anthony Codispoti (49:25.712)
Yeah. And so I fully understand now why a hospital medical facility would come to you to ask for help in their staffing. Now let’s look at it from the other point of view for the contract workers or let’s talk specifically about contract workers. Why do they enjoy working with you and Ellsworth’s healthcare staffing as opposed to going and finding a full-time position at one of these facilities on their own?

Terri Lawson-Adams (49:54.338)
Now there are some nurses, for instance, or even providers that only want to work. We have some that say, I’m only working during the school year because I want to be home in the summer or I want to travel in the summer. And so it’s easier to come to an agency or like us to find something that kind of meet their needs. a lot of them also know they may have to go and apply for a hundred jobs before they find that job that they want.

Anthony Codispoti (50:05.64)
Mm.

Terri Lawson-Adams (50:24.366)
But if they come to us, we can look for the jobs that they’re looking for or what they want. And we try to find things that meet their needs. so, and then we’re like I said, we give a personalized touch. We have great relationships and I think all of those things, the trust, as well as knowing that we really understand their needs and trying to meet their needs. Those things, I guess make it attractive for them to come work with us.

Anthony Codispoti (50:28.253)
Hmm.

Anthony Codispoti (50:54.108)
Hmm. So one of the things as business owners that we always have to keep our eye on is the bottom line, right, Terry? So I like to think of these as sort of two main levers that we can pull. One is like, okay, how do we increase sales? And the other one is how do we decrease expenses? If you think about your role and your world and those two levers,

Any creative, interesting things that you’ve done to move either one of those levers, either increasing sales or decreasing expenses?

Terri Lawson-Adams (51:27.31)
guess one of the things with sales is, don’t know if it’s as, I guess somewhat creative. We basically know that, well, one, I think we increase sales when we know that we’re a niche agency, right? And so when we’re talking to people, when we tell them our differentiators, that helps us with sales. In addition to not a lot of staffing agencies or joint commission certified. We have the joint commission go to,

Go seal right seal of approval. So basically if you go to any hospital or a medical facility, you will see Joint Commission certification All of them have to be certified what it basically says is that you have to meet certain standards So we have to meet they have to meet standards for the care as well as for

Anthony Codispoti (51:57.918)
What is that?

Terri Lawson-Adams (52:20.6)
Providing I mean providing the care right and so the clinicians and providers they hire have to meet certain standards and we as a staffing agency Have we work by those same standards and so we’re joint commission, you know, they do reviews we have They’re constantly looking at our processes our systems The way we staff people how we credential them just the whole business as a whole and so

If our organization call us and they see that we join commissions at least, know, particular a healthcare organization, right? They know That we’re meeting certain standards in in order to be joint commission certified So that helps us stand out as well and then helps with sales now your question was about how do we Any creative ways so the creative ways I guess is like I said, One we’re starting to try to do interesting, you know

Anthony Codispoti (53:04.232)
Gotcha.

Terri Lawson-Adams (53:20.984)
to get on more podcasts. We would like to get on podcasts that’s kind of geared towards the healthcare industry. We are now working on trying to do some more webinars, just different creative ways to try to get our name out to help increase sales. Now how we, of course, with the bottom line, one of the things we’ve done is when COVID hit, of course, we had to, in our office space, we…

Everyone was working from home. So we had to learn how to work from home. That was difficult, especially with recruiting. We, used to believe that I needed people to come in face to face and meet with them. I felt like you get to know a person better if you meet with them face to face. I would talk to other agencies that would say, we staff all over the world and we don’t meet people face to face. And I said, well, I’m not comfortable with that. And they were like, whoa, you’re not going to scale.

Anthony Codispoti (54:15.294)
Hmm.

Terri Lawson-Adams (54:20.138)
Or I said, well, I can never like, well, I guess you can scale in your area, but if someone’s somewhere around the state, how are you going to meet with them face to face unless you have offices everywhere? So when COVID hit, we learn to adapt and adjust. And now we do all of our interviewing virtually, which is save this money. And so we hit our offices and then we started working after,

I guess after 2021, 2022, we started doing hybrid. And then earlier this year, have totally, everyone’s working from home right now. So it’s been interesting that we’ve changed.

Anthony Codispoti (55:02.278)
Yeah. Terry, what’s a particular challenge, either personal or professional, that you’ve overcome? What was that process like and what did you learn coming through it?

Terri Lawson-Adams (55:13.346)
I guess, like I said, the challenge during COVID was my biggest challenge, right? Like I said, I thought we were going to be out of business. And what I learned from that is, you know, if you just keep working, have faith also, and, you know, if you have to pivot and be flexible, be prepared to do that. And that’s what we did. And we overcame it.

I can also say now that staffing space right now, our numbers, think around the board is down. People in all forms of staffing, seems like the numbers are down. They’re going up a little bit. I’m hopeful that, well, I’m confident that they will turn around, but I know that in businesses, sometime in business period, you’re gonna have the upturn, downturns, but you just have to be prepared.

and ride out the wave and know that you’ll be fine.

Anthony Codispoti (56:16.996)
I do hear that talking with a lot of folks in the staffing space is that it’s in a bit of a wall. Numbers are down. Any theories on why that is from your side?

Terri Lawson-Adams (56:24.163)
Mm-hmm.

Terri Lawson-Adams (56:29.282)
I think from our side in the healthcare in particular, it’s that during COVID, the nurses were required, I mean, they were, were to go to work. They wanted, they, know, premium pay. And I understand because they were being exposed to COVID, right? Or they were leaving their families. And so if they wanted premium pay, agencies had to charge the clients.

You know higher rates. So the bill rates were higher and at the time also The schools the universities hospitals All health care facilities were also getting funding from the government the covet funding So when the covert funded ended and it was still paying a premium rates a lot of them Are having some financial challenges and so they’re cutting back and they’re trying to find ways to decrease the

the money that they’re spent, they’re spent on staffing to kind of help with their bottom line. So it’s in turn it’s helped, it’s impacting us because the need’s not there like it was before.

Anthony Codispoti (57:43.912)
So the needs actually gone down because COVID is more in the background now. It’s not front and center. It’s not requiring somebody to take temperatures and give vaccines at different workplaces. And so the needs have just shifted.

Terri Lawson-Adams (57:59.544)
for us in particular, but even if you weren’t doing COVID vaccinations, temperature checks, like schools increase, some schools have one or two nurses, that’s all they had. And then during COVID, they needed 10 nurses, because they wanted to make sure. And so all of that, those needs have decreased. And like I said, with the hospitals, some of them,

Anthony Codispoti (58:17.374)
Yeah.

Terri Lawson-Adams (58:26.368)
They were having financial challenges. So they were trying to figure out ways not to use agencies. And so again, I guess for us Because we do direct hire as well. It makes it it kind of helps us a little bit, right so we can at least staff people directly for the facility as opposed to just the contract labor

Anthony Codispoti (58:30.79)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (58:48.924)
Makes sense. Terry, what’s a fun or interesting fact that most people might not know about you?

Terri Lawson-Adams (58:59.0)
Think one of the interesting things about me is that I am passionate about health and business I I Work out often I walk and run a lot And most people especially people who knew me when I was younger they’ll be shocked to hear that So I think that’s interesting

I’m trying to think if there is something else interesting. I think that’s the interesting thing right now.

Anthony Codispoti (59:30.91)
Okay, Terry, any mentors or books that have been helpful to you in your path you want to give a call out to?

Terri Lawson-Adams (59:41.236)
I, like I said, I had some mentors. The first one was his name is Ken Tornton. Ken was the person who told me about American Staffing. And that’s helped me. I’ve had two other business mentors, Therese Baker and Deliever Wesley there with American Staffing. They’ve helped me. Books, I read a lot of books. Tomick Habits.

Anthony Codispoti (01:00:12.67)
James Clear.

Terri Lawson-Adams (01:00:12.985)
Actually The morning miracle morning was something that I really it really helped me Start my day Yes, have you read it?

Anthony Codispoti (01:00:20.478)
think that’s how I’ll run.

Anthony Codispoti (01:00:24.83)
I have, it’s been a little bit, but it’s a good reminder for me to go back to it. Give our listeners a little synopsis of what they can expect from it.

Terri Lawson-Adams (01:00:33.304)
Well, you know, it just basically talks about how you start your day kind of set you up for success. With it, you know, it talks about basically he looked at all successful people and what do they do? What do they have in common? And then he put all of their habits into one the morning miracle. So it’s, you know, exercise, meditation.

Let’s see. I’m reading Writing scribing and gratitude If I’m missing one, I think I have all of them. Do you remember Anthony? Okay, yeah, I think that that was all of them but basically it Really really helped me and I think I highly recommend people consider reading it

Anthony Codispoti (01:01:14.79)
I don’t know. This has been a good refresher for me.

Anthony Codispoti (01:01:31.71)
That’s great. I just got one more question for you, Terry, but before I ask it, I want to do two things. For those listening today, if you like today’s content, please hit the like, share, subscribe button on your favorite podcast app. Terry, I also want to let people know the best way to get in touch with you. What would that be?

Terri Lawson-Adams (01:01:50.318)
They can go to our website, which is ehtaffing.com. That’s E for Ellsworth, H for healthcare, and the word staffing.com. Or they can email us at info at ehtaffing.com.

Anthony Codispoti (01:02:04.702)
And you know what? I have to apologize. I lied. I actually have two more questions for you. I want to hear about what future growth looks like before I ask my last question. You guys have some plans in the works? Anything that you want to share?

Terri Lawson-Adams (01:02:16.162)
We’re actually, we are looking at doing more. We would like to do some federal government contracting. So we are looking at, you know, focusing on those federal governmental agencies that in particular have a need for, you know, healthcare staffing, nurses and providers. And we are hoping to grow in the government space.

Anthony Codispoti (01:02:40.892)
That’s exciting. We’ll have to have you back on when you’ve made some progress in that front to see how it’s going. Okay, so last question for you, Terry. I’m curious, what do you think the big changes are that are coming to your industry in the next couple of years? Sort of seeing the arc of COVID, things are kind of settling down into a new normal. What do you think the next couple of years looks like?

Terri Lawson-Adams (01:02:45.795)
Love to be back.

Terri Lawson-Adams (01:03:00.452)
I actually think that, you know, there are some companies that are closing down, unfortunately. I think we’re going to see more, as you know, AI and everything, right? So I think AI is going to help with some recruiting and staffing. I think it’s going to help with growth as well. It also is going to perhaps level the playing field with small companies being able to kind of compete with some of larger companies.

Anthony Codispoti (01:03:06.163)
Mm.

Terri Lawson-Adams (01:03:30.69)
by the use of AI technology. But of course, you still need the human touch.

Anthony Codispoti (01:03:33.832)
How do you see?

Yeah. How do you see AI? Like, let me ask a couple of questions, actually. How are you using AI, at all, right now in your business?

Terri Lawson-Adams (01:03:46.376)
Right now we’re using it only with you know, we use chat GPT It helps us sometime when we do a job description will help it. It’ll help us rewrite a job description We use it for more of those things and when we We write things sometimes we send it and say help rewrite this for us or give us some suggestions But I do believe like I see

AI helping with there are some platforms right now with recruiting. I haven’t bought it yet or been sold totally where AI can call thousands of people at one time and do, you know, the initial interviewing. I still believe in the personal human touch and I don’t know if automated assistant call me.

Question me and want to interview me if I will be comfortable or even interested But there are some people that use it and they’ve had some great success with it So I see it changing and maybe it’ll get better and maybe you know you reach out to me You know in a year and I said guess what I’m using AI to do our interview and I don’t know Our initial interviewing, but I don’t see it. But a lot of companies are starting to use it

Anthony Codispoti (01:04:46.75)
Hmm.

Anthony Codispoti (01:05:12.796)
What do you think your next step with AI could be for your co-

Terri Lawson-Adams (01:05:19.82)
I think my next step could be basically where AI, if someone comes to our website and you probably see this with the chat boxes, right? But it can kind of interact with people when we’re not in the office and kind of, you know, ask, your resume, send your credentials, things like that. And then when we come back into the office, we, you know, AI has already collected all of the stuff that we need.

Anthony Codispoti (01:05:35.421)
Yeah.

Terri Lawson-Adams (01:05:49.409)
I can see using that.

Anthony Codispoti (01:05:52.124)
Yeah, I’ve been to a number of websites that have the chat bots and it’s pretty clear to me now which ones are using the old style chat bots which are not helpful, never have been. And those are using the new AI powered chat bots which I would say maybe 70 % of the time they’re actually able to answer my question and do it very well. So that would make a great next step. Yeah, it makes sense, it’s a great next step for you.

Terri Lawson-Adams (01:06:01.879)
No.

Terri Lawson-Adams (01:06:13.972)
I see Yeah Yeah, because the one the old ones are frustrating I know most of us most people you most of your listeners have probably dealt with it where like you said You asked it a question and it keeps asking it doesn’t give you the answer and it’s like are you a computer because you kind of know but the new AI generated ones or Some of them are really powerful

Anthony Codispoti (01:06:39.388)
No. Well, Terry, I want to be the first to thank you for sharing both your time and your story with us today. I really appreciate it.

Terri Lawson-Adams (01:06:47.086)
Well, thank you and thank you for having me.

Anthony Codispoti (01:06:49.554)
Folks, that’s a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories Podcast. Thanks for learning with us today.