Family Values to Professional Purpose: Dina Rosenbaum’s Leadership in Vision Services

Intro  

Welcome to another edition of inspired stories where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes, how they’ve overcome adversity, and explore current challenges they’re facing.

Anthony Codispoti (15:41.666)
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories Podcast, where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired by how they’ve overcome adversity. My name is Anthony Cotaspodi and today’s guest is Dina Rosenbaum, Chief Program Officer of Carroll Center for the Blind, a nonprofit agency helping individuals who are blind or visually impaired gain the skills they need to be confident, active, independent individuals.

They proudly serve all ages and all stages of vision loss. Established in 1936, the Carroll Center has pioneered innovative methods for blind persons to gain independence in their homes, in class settings, and in their workplaces. New and evolving technologies combined with time-tested adaptive methods, individualized instruction, and personalized therapies developed by the Carroll Center staff have provided thousands of blind and vision impaired persons

with diverse opportunities for success and independent living. Dina has been with Carol for over 40 years, and we will hear about how her background in special ed first led her to the Carol Center and what has kept her there for so long. Now, before we get into all that good stuff, today’s episode is brought to you by my company, At-Back Benefits Agency, where we offer very specific and unique employee benefits that are both great for your team and fiscally optimized for your bottom line.

One recent client was able to add over $900 per employee per year in extra cashflow by implementing one of our proprietary programs. Results vary for each company and some organizations may not be eligible. To find out if your company qualifies, contact us today at addbackbenefitsagency.com. Now back to our guest today, the Chief Program Officer of Carroll Center for the Blind, Dina Rosenbaum. I appreciate you making the time to share your story today.

Dina Rosenbaum (17:30.382)
Thank you so much for having me today, Anthony. It’s a pleasure.

Anthony Codispoti (17:33.668)
So, Dana, tell us how you found your way from working in special education to working at the Carroll Center for the

Dina Rosenbaum (17:40.792)
So it wasn’t exactly the path that I had chosen. I loved working with children. I had studied special education at Boston University and I was teaching at a small school with autistic children. I had a small classroom and it was just the, we were on the cusp of just the introduction of Apple IIe computers and personalized computers and

Anthony Codispoti (18:06.2)
Yeah.

Dina Rosenbaum (18:08.258)
This professor from MIT came to our school and said, I’m doing research on using computers with autistic children. And she wound up picking my classroom to use my students as part of her research. So I worked with her on this project. Really, the only thing I remember is the computer screen had what we called, it was called the turtle program. And it had a little triangle. And the kids had to use the up and down arrow key to move the triangle around on the screen.

But that was very progressive at that time, if you can think in pair today. But I was fascinated by what she was doing. And so I spent a lot of time with her on her research, et cetera. And she really said to me, you know, you should go pursue this. And I’m like, how do I do that? And it just coincidentally that Lesley University had just launched this new master’s program in education technology.

Anthony Codispoti (18:44.004)
you

Anthony Codispoti (19:06.582)
I know.

Dina Rosenbaum (19:07.518)
And so I enrolled, I left my teaching position. It was like a one year, 12 month position. A lot of the participants were teachers in public schools that were looking to get this credential to create computer labs in their school. And I was like one of maybe two of us who had a background in special education. And every time I would bring it up to the professors, they’re like, you’re it, you’re the expertise. You need to tell us how to use this stuff.

Along with the Apple IIe, a company had launched a speech synthesizer called the Echo, which was a card that went in the Apple IIe. It was a great program. learned a lot. And now I was figuring out, OK, what do I do next? And most of my colleagues were going back to their school systems and launching these computer programs, teaching kids how to use computers. And I had a girlfriend who got a part-time position at the

Museum of Science in Boston, which had just launched their computer program as part of the museum. And a flyer came in one day that the Carroll Center for the Blind was looking for director of their computer training program. So my girlfriend called me and said, I think you should apply and go, what’s the Carroll Center? I know nothing about blindness. She said, you should apply. So you have a background in special education. I said, I learned nothing about vision loss. I learned how to sign, and that was about it. So I did.

President at the time, Rachel Rosenbaum, no relationship, I was not a Rosenbaum at that time, interviewed me and offered me the position. They had just launched a three-year federally funded program to create a training program to teach blind people how to use computers with speech programs and large print programs. That was in the early 80s. I won’t date myself too much. But you know,

Anthony Codispoti (20:51.332)
And this is back in the 80s. Okay, go ahead.

Dina Rosenbaum (21:01.332)
What’s interesting, so I was kind of launched in the then to the field of blindness and of course have learned a lot in my, course now 40 going on over 40 years at the agency. So I started as director of computer training and after about 15 years, the Carroll Center had created a new marketing and outreach program. And I really enjoyed going to conferences and talking to people and educating people about the Carroll Center and blindness and went to a lot of events. And so they.

had created this new role and I work closely with the admissions director who’s a great mentor. And then about 10 years ago now, there were some management changes within the agency and they created a chief program officer. So I oversee all the programs and services that we deliver to individuals who are blind. So I have a team of managers who run programs and then they have staff below them. But I really have to…

credit that encounter with Rachel Rosenbaum. So here I am, a 20 something, got this master’s degree, couple years of teaching behind me. And I come in and I think I, she offered me the job and I walked away and said, I’ll be here, you know, six months. She said, she’ll be here a year. 40 years later. But what’s, when I think about my,

success at the Carroll Center was one, the opportunities I were afforded in terms of different jobs, but also, you know, we can talk about the big balance of work and family life, et cetera, especially when you work in a nonprofit, which I think was a big piece of me still being here 40 years later. But I learned a lot from Rachel about the qualities you look for in a

person and I said to her what like what made you hire me because you know I said I didn’t know anything about blindness etc and she said when I spoke to you you were like me and I go what do you mean nothing like you she said you grew up in a family business I knew you had good work ethic I knew you had

Dina Rosenbaum (23:26.328)
compassion, and we can talk about a little of my family history. So I knew you had the soft skills in terms of being successful as a manager. I could teach you everything else. And yes, you were young and didn’t have a lot of experience managing people, but I could help you develop those skills. that, you know, I didn’t ask her back then, but years later, when I asked her that what, you know, why, why did you

What did you see in me that? So that was really inspiring to me to hear her share that, that I kept with me to use inspiring others.

Anthony Codispoti (24:06.196)
That’s a great story. So she was kind of like a mentor to you kind of helping to bring you up. Yeah, and Is that something now that is important to you to try to pass on to others?

Dina Rosenbaum (24:09.613)
Yes.

Dina Rosenbaum (24:18.83)
extremely important, especially being a woman in leadership. I think it’s very critical that I have younger women who are underneath me who I know hopefully someday will take my seat at some point in the future, but definitely supporting them in their pursuit of leadership and sort of knowledge of the field and what we do in sort of the role.

that we play in trying to really, I mean, we change people’s lives daily, but the work that I might not be doing it directly, but that our team does and what we’re doing. So I definitely have learned to recognize the soft skills that people need to be successful as leaders and not everybody wants to be a leader.

And I think that’s important for leaders to recognize that we have teachers who are great, who just want to be teachers. And they don’t want management responsibility, but we need to support them in making sure they’re supported in what they do and they feel happy and they’re constantly satisfied in the work they’re do, but also recognize others, whether they’re male or female or whoever.

They identify as to provide them with opportunities for growth and skill should they choose. And we see that they have the skills to do it. I think it’s critical to identify the, know, empathy people have and organization and detail. But initiative to me is critical when you see people taking initiative and saying yes and getting things done. It’s like this person has capacity.

Anthony Codispoti (26:03.192)
Do know, were there particular challenges for you being a woman in a leadership position in a nonprofit?

Dina Rosenbaum (26:10.414)
I think that one of my biggest challenges were being young. So I was like maybe mid 20s. And so I come into this position and I have back then called a secretary who was probably could have been my mother. So that was a little bit of a challenge kind of sort of figuring out that kind of relationship of here like, know, and that person who I don’t

They hadn’t really been there that long, but just like, my God, they hired somebody half my age. I could do her job kind of. I’m sure that was the first thing in their head. So I learned how to just like be supportive and empathetic to people and where they are in their role and in their life and how to navigate that and seek out, not come in, assuming you know everything, a learn skill, but coming in and to really open it up to learn from others and kind of include people as a team to get things done.

And so I think that was critical that my first secretary didn’t last long, but the others who were also in that age category did, because I think I finally started to learn. I think Rachel, you know, kind of mentoring that way and just having that experience. again, when you work with great people, it works. It just works when you work with people who are nice and empathetic and take initiative and say yes to things and are happy.

and you want to keep them that way, the relationship, the teamwork works.

Anthony Codispoti (27:42.128)
So Dina you’ve been there for 40 years, but the Center for the blind has been there certainly much longer almost 90 years, I believe talk a little bit about the evolution of the services offered there at Carol and kind of the overall role that Carol has played in the blind community

Dina Rosenbaum (28:05.304)
Sure. our initial organization launch was back in the 1930s as part of the Catholic organization. was called the Catholic Guild for the Blind. It was a service organization because back then the services of a, you became blind or were blind, it was very much people were helping you, providing you with readers, driving you places, giving you things, even giving them money to live, cetera.

And it wasn’t really until some of the, after World War II in some federal laws that changed in terms of the rehab acts and vocational rehab programming in the federal government that enabled agencies to really launch more services for people who were blind with a higher expectation. So one of the things that happened is veterans coming back from World War II who were blinded were

part of a pilot program to provide them with skills training with the goal of can they go back to work? We think they can go back to work. So that mindset of if you’re blind, you could go back to work kind of started things then with the blinded veterans who were coming back. Father Thomas Carroll was a Boston gentleman who grew up in a big Catholic family in north of Boston, fishing family, you know, a

boy among eight children that were all girls, so seven girls in him, I think it was. And he went to seminary school and the seminary school said, you graduated, this is your assignment, we’re sending you to work at the Catholic Guild for the Blind. Wasn’t happy, he wanted a parish to go work at, but it certainly became an unbelievable match to who he was.

as well. So he became involved in the program with the blinded veterans and in this program happened to be happening in Connecticut and he would drive down to Connecticut and work with them and learn about the methods that they were trying with this blinded veterans to give them the skills to make them more independent, travel with the cane, learn braille, learn skills to go back to work or learn a trade. But he was providing them more with counseling and support, but also paying attention to what was going on.

Dina Rosenbaum (30:26.616)
He became a great friend of the blinded veterans and helped them form their own organization. He presented at their convention. still a Father Carol luncheoned in his memory at the Blind Veterans Association Convention every year where he’s memorialized and talked about. So he took all this opportunity and skills that he learned and coming back to

now in Massachusetts where the guild was now located and said to the then director, I think we should create a program like this for blinded civilians. There’s no reason why they have to sit at home and do nothing. the property was part of a big estate that had like a big house and a carriage house for horses. So the director’s like, well, you can take the barn and create a program on the barn. Very Catholic.

go back to the barn, launch new things, very symbolic for him. So he did, he was very resourceful. He went to places and found cots and made the upstairs a dormitory and the downstairs a training facility. And basically through his connections through the blinded VA found instructors, convinced them to come to Boston to teach when knocking on doors to…

Anthony Codispoti (31:24.216)
Thank

Dina Rosenbaum (31:49.528)
Houses where he knew women weren’t working and asked them to come volunteer and teach cooking, et cetera. And it was in 1956 that he launched the first independent living program for persons who were blind. And that’s really the birth of where the Carroll Center stems from because we still teach independent living based on a lot of the work him and his colleagues did and philosophies and curriculum that they created, certainly updated.

You know, we’re teaching technology, we’re teaching how to use cell phones, we’re counter, you know, the latest appliances with our individuals. But the basis of the premise that he put together in terms of what people needed to learn, not just skills, but sort of the non kind of skill set, like adjusting to your vision loss and what does that mean? And how does that affect your role in the family? And how do you.

function in a group of people that you can’t see and how do you use your other senses to help you when you navigate in the outside world? All those kind of techniques are still part of the curriculum that we run. The other interesting thing about Father Carroll is he was very active in civil rights. He marched with Dr. Martin Luther King in Selma. There’s actually a video of him. He happened to had just had

Anthony Codispoti (32:54.692)
Okay.

Dina Rosenbaum (33:09.802)
A knee surgery, so when you see the group kneeling, he’s the only one not kneeling because he couldn’t kneel. So there is a video of that on our website. He gave a lot of speeches about equality for all persons, not just persons who were blind or disabled. He spent a lot of time in Washington getting funding for programs, for professional programs. So he really helped launch the first

professional, what we call paraprofessional program for individuals to become instructors to teach orientation and mobility, is travel, teaching blind people how to travel with a cane. And he was very connected, very smart, very cunning. There’s a couple of stories about him, how he was trying to convince Boston College to…

take on this program and had been going to Washington to try to get funding and Boston College wasn’t sure that they wanted to do and they kept putting them off and putting them off. And finally he said, there’s a very prominent college in Boston that is very interested and I need your decision by Friday and I have your funding. And if you don’t want it, Ikea Harvard wants it. He had never talked to anybody at Harvard.

Boston College took the bait and they said, okay, we’ll take the program. So he’s just that kind of personality that really launched things. And he gave a lot of lectures. He wrote a book about blindness, what it is, what it does, how to live with it. It’s been translated in like 20 languages. It’s used, it’s still used at a lot of universities, even if it’s very dated. Unfortunately, he died in 1971 unexpectedly. And

Anthony Codispoti (34:28.893)
A little bluffing. Yeah.

Dina Rosenbaum (34:56.75)
The Guild for the Blind, even before he died, was already in the process of becoming an independent nonprofit. So after he died, it separated with the church, became an independent nonprofit with the board, and they renamed it in his memory, the Carroll Center for the Blind. That’s how we kind of got to where we are today. It had a few directors. Rachel Rosenbaum came in.

a few years after Father Carol died and took over the agency and really launched it further on its path to being a national center or international center in a way and really pulled in the finances, expanded programs so that we had a low vision department, we had a research department. At one time we had an international program. She added educational services to the agency.

got funding to launch a technology program for where she hired me to run at the onset. And then she retired and we’ve had some great presidents, including Greg Donnelly, who’s our current president. So that’s sort of our path of history.

Anthony Codispoti (36:09.076)
That’s helpful. Yeah, that’s that’s helpful to hear that history. I’m looking at your website here, which by the way, for folks listening is carol.org caroll.org. And I see a lot of different services here. Before I ask you to kind of, you know, bullet point what they are, I’m going to ask what may sound like a very basic question, but is there a formal definition for blind? Is there?

Dina Rosenbaum (36:36.759)
Anthony Codispoti (36:37.194)
some kind of a threshold? Is it a sliding scale? How’s that work?

Dina Rosenbaum (36:41.166)
So there is what we called a definition of legal blindness, which very simply is that your corrected vision is 2,200 or worse. There are also some other field restrictions and other things that doctors can use. But you’re wearing glasses. So if you told me your vision was 20 over 300 or 20 over 250 or some number, because that’s not an exact one.

read an eye chart and you couldn’t wear glasses, they didn’t help, then you could be considered legally blind, even though you probably still have some usable vision. You could probably see quite a bit. But that’s the number that the states use to declare somebody legally blind or the doctors use to declare you legally blind that states require in order for you to have or get a driver’s license.

So if you meet that eligibility in most states, they are required by state law to report you to the agency for the blind, which in turn reports your name to the Department of Motor Vehicles and they pull your license. So, but there’s a lot of gray area in that because sometimes people are in treatment for their vision loss, so they might not get.

declared legally blind right away because the doctor might need working on treatments or injections or other methods that could restore some of your vision. And I always say blindness doesn’t discriminate. It affects people of all ages, all economic status, et cetera. In my 40 years, I still am surprised that every month I hear about some condition that I never heard of before.

Anthony Codispoti (38:35.736)
Yeah.

Dina Rosenbaum (38:35.982)
So certainly it’s a very small field. There’s only about like 1.1, 0.2 million people in the United States who are legally blind. And most of those people are over the age of 60. So it’s small still, but there are certainly a much larger, like 4 million people who are what we call visually impaired, which means your vision is 20.

over 70 or worse, so sort of between 20 over 70 and 20 over 200. And those people typically can still drive. might be able to use magnifiers. They might need more lighting, but their vision can’t be corrected to 2020. So they need some extra tools maybe to help them. And they may struggle using their phone or using their computer or reading their mail. it just depends on the individual.

It’s so unique, you two people can come and have the exact same condition and have a different experience in terms of how their vision is affecting them. So.

Anthony Codispoti (39:39.172)
Mm-hmm.

Anthony Codispoti (39:42.884)
I’m going to share a personal story of mine that had had a happy sort of funny ending, but it’ll be a good lead into my next question. This was just a week or two ago. I’m getting ready for a meeting and my vision starts going blurry and I’ve got to drop my kids off at school. And as I’m driving them to school, it’s it’s getting worse. And what’s what’s going on? And I get to school, I drop them off. I look in the rear of your mirror and my my pupils are huge or giant.

Dina Rosenbaum (40:11.362)
Wow.

Anthony Codispoti (40:12.0)
Okay, I don’t know what’s happening. I had a series of meetings that morning. I’m having trouble functioning because I can’t focus on the screen. I can’t, you know, focus on the projector. I’m having trouble finding the, you know, the mouse. And I’m like, in between meetings, I’m calling my eye doctor. I’m like, I got to get in today. I don’t, I don’t know what’s happening. And I’m trying to hold it together during these meetings, but inside of a mess. Cause like, I’m already making plans for like, what does my life look like if all of this, you know, that I’ve taken for granted for 50 years, all the, you know,

Dina Rosenbaum (40:29.262)
going on.

Anthony Codispoti (40:41.172)
this goes away. The funny sort of happy ending to my story was that I had mistakenly put my kids prescription eye drops in my eyes instead of my just typical rewetting. And it’s a diluted version of what causes your eyes to dilate at the eye doctors. with you know, by the end of the day, my my vision was back to normal. But having gone through like this very brief moment in time where I thought, I don’t know what’s happening.

Dina Rosenbaum (40:53.054)
my god.

Anthony Codispoti (41:09.676)
I’m terrified of what the outcome is. It made me realize that I have to assume a great deal of the work that is being done at Ketrel has to do with sort of the emotional acceptance and the mental health aspect of coming to terms with this new reality for folks. Am I right?

Dina Rosenbaum (41:32.386)
You’re absolutely right. I mean, and that’s really where it was groundbreaking and what father Carol talked about in his book is all the losses that come with your loss of vision. Cause you’re sitting there going, my God, how am going to drive home? my God. How am I going to get through this meeting? my God. How am I going to pick up my kids? You know, so it’s affects all so many parts of your life that you just puts you in crisis mode. And now you say, now what? and

the, you know, one of the, we talk about things like your role in your family. You know, I, you know, I, I was the mother, I took care of the kids, I prepared the meals, I planned all our activities. I picked up the, drove the kids and picked them up from school. Now you can’t do that. So how do you, you know, you can sit with your partner and hopefully if you have a partner, you have that support.

to kind of change your role and you kind of maybe switch responsibilities or figure out a way to do that. But it’s also, you know, it’s emotionally like effective that you don’t have that ability to do that. You don’t have that independence and just to acknowledge and accept the change that you have to make that change. It affects your relationships with friends or colleagues that, you know, you can’t just, you know, get in the car and go meet them for a walk or out to dinner or go.

play bridge or tennis or whatever it was that you did as part of your social life. so what do you do now? How do you keep those friends or, you know, a critical component of coming to the Carroll Center is meeting other persons who are blind because you need that group of individuals that you can share and talk to about blindness related things that you’re not going to be able to share with your sighted friends and family.

you know, employment is a big piece of what people do. And people assume like they, their vision changes or they lose their vision. They can’t work anymore. And that might not be true. So I think it’s a first, you know, knee reaction to jerk reaction to say, I can’t see, I can’t work. Instead of saying, you know what, let’s take a pause and let’s, let’s get you more independent and get you skilled and get you emotionally ready. And then figure out whether you can go back to your job.

Dina Rosenbaum (43:54.453)
And does that make sense? And for some people it’s like, I don’t want to go back to that job. Maybe that’s not really, you passion anymore. So I think the adjustment is really figuring out what you, you know, you’re adjusting to this new world, but having a play in how it gets formed and played out and not taking a back seat to it. So I think a lot of what we do is talk about empowering people, empowering people in self-advocacy.

but in order to do that, they have to learn and feel that they’re empowered and they can do things. And it’s, it’s risk taking. It’s, I’m not a risk taker. I, I applaud these people who can come and take these risks because it’s, going out, it’s going to places. You have a cane, you feel you’re a target. You’re going to places a different way or new places. But I feel that each step people take just makes them stronger.

and they become more confident that they can do things. So there’s a lot of, we talk about a lot of losses that people have to go through. And we even, when we have people come to the Carroll Center for an intensive independent living vision rehabilitation program, we acknowledge that they need to be ready for it. So if you lost your vision yesterday, you are not ready to come tomorrow for a program.

Anthony Codispoti (45:12.728)
Yeah.

Dina Rosenbaum (45:19.766)
you have to one, you have to explore all the options for any medical treatment that that could take months, sometimes years. You have to be in a place to recognize that. That maybe this won’t be your vision for the rest of your life. Maybe there will, will be a cure or treatment, in your future. And we hope there is, but you still have to get up today and function. And that’s what we’re really here for. And we try to communicate today where we’re not, this is not.

necessarily the end of the road to say, I’m never going to see again. This is just get your life back on track, get yourself back in, in, the world of living and functioning. And so let’s show you how to pour yourself a cup of coffee, make yourself a meal, make your children a meal. Go grocery shopping. That might not be getting in your car and going, but maybe it’s ordering it and having it delivered or, you know, having another family member pick it up, but you certainly go online and order it yourself.

you know, so maybe you’re not going to make Thanksgiving dinner the way you’re used to, you’ll order the food or you’ll have other people bring it, but you certainly could host it. So it’s just finding ways to do things differently. And a lot of the techniques that we teach are actually very low tech. you know, we just did a presentation and, know, our top three low tech items for, that most people can use, whether you have vision or not are rubber bands.

Chopsticks and trays. So rubber bands. So you want to easily identify something you like a medicine in your medicine cabinet or a shampoo or conditioner in your shower, put a rubber band on it. If you like wake up in the middle of the night and you need to find that Advil or Tylenol, put a rubber band on it and it’s right there in front of you. Like, you don’t have to keep looking at all the labels, you know, for people even with vision, but how easier it makes it. Same thing in the shower.

Anthony Codispoti (47:01.636)
you

Dina Rosenbaum (47:15.502)
Can’t wear your glasses? Can’t see that well? OK, I know the rubber band is on the conditioner or the shampoo. In trays, doing everything over a tray from putting a cutting board in a tray to counting or taking your medicine over a tray, because anything that falls falls on the tray. And you’re not on your hands and knees trying to look for it on the floor. So it’s just organization, techniques, learning from our expertise. But you’re right.

A lot of it is just emotional day-to-day support and being in an environment where you’re with other people who are blind who are going through the same thing. And one of the great things that happens at the Carroll Center is we have rolling admissions. So we have people who come in every two weeks. So you could start on Monday and be here with people who are starting with you on Monday to people who started a month ago or people who’ve been here for three months.

And they now become your mentors, those people who’ve been here for a while to say, yes, when I first started, this is what I went through. Yes. Let me help you learn how to use that phone. To me, the best training that happens at the Carroll Center happens after 5 PM after the staff leave. And it’s really the training and support people get. And when we talked and survey our alumni, they say that the greatest thing they got out of the Carroll Center was being with other people who were blind.

Anthony Codispoti (48:23.0)
Mm-hmm.

Anthony Codispoti (48:36.842)
Yeah, everybody needs a community. And especially when you’re transitioning to a new life reality. You know, there’s something you said, Dina, that surprised me was that, right, you know, as I was sort of going through a few hours of like, no, what does this mean? It’s like, right, I’m, I won’t be able to work. And you’re like, Well, that’s not necessarily always the case. So I have to imagine, I have that misconception, there’s probably lots of other misconceptions around blindness. What, what are some of the more common ones?

Dina Rosenbaum (49:06.328)
So I pretty much tell people, okay, so you can’t drive. So if your job was driving a truck, that’s not something you can go back to or if you were a pilot or something, that’s gonna be pretty difficult. But certainly there’s a lot of people can go back to the work they were doing. You may have to carve out some of your job because maybe there are a few things you can’t do anymore or just way too time consuming or difficult to do. But I mean,

I have worked with people who were pharmacists who kept went back to their job. have a woman who’s a speech and language therapist in a public school who works with autistic children and she’s totally blind and she went back to her job. And a simple technique is she walks to the kids classroom. She gives them a thing of bells.

She walks with them to her office. She’s like, shake those bells. So she knows they’re with her. They get to the classroom. She’s adapted a lot of the materials she used to be tactile. She uses the computer. she’s, but her employer was very supportive of this environment and wanted her back. I’ve, we’ve worked with the doctors who’ve, you know, necessarily they might not go in and do surgery, but they were able to keep their practice for a while or make modifications so they continue to see patients or do some of their work.

that they were doing. We have a wood shop at the Carroll Center where we teach people how to use tools, saws, et cetera. And I have a lot of gentlemen who worked or females who worked in construction or like, can’t do that again. We’re like, actually you can, but maybe you’re not gonna go back to the construction site, but maybe I had a gentleman go work at Home Depot and get a job, because he certainly had all the knowledge. he’s…

go into Home Depot and he could tell you how to fix anything or make anything. So it’s just kind of rethinking your job or thinking about what you liked at your job or what you like to do. Because not everybody, I mean, we have lots of people say, I don’t want to do what I did before. I want to do something else. I worked in a bank. I was a VP at a bank. I don’t want to do that anymore. You know, so I want to give back. I want to work with people. So I had a gentleman who worked at a, was a VPA bank.

Dina Rosenbaum (51:25.42)
lost his vision and he came to the Carroll Center. We got an internship. He worked in the field of disability and accessibility and he loved it. But he had great customer service skills, great people skills, great organization skills. So you just kind of like any of us take what the skill set that you’re good at and kind of re-imagine what that’s like. But it is, you do need confidence that you can go back to work.

And for some people that might be starting off small by volunteering somewhere, volunteering in your community, just to kind of get your sea legs to go back out there and just have the confidence to be out in the public or be out in an environment and do something. And so for some people it takes time.

Anthony Codispoti (52:08.516)
Okay.

Anthony Codispoti (52:12.184)
So we’ve kind of touched on some of the services that you guys offer. And I’m sure we could probably do an entire interview just on kind of talking through what those services are, but maybe kind of give me the Reader’s Digest condensed version of what it is that you guys are able to provide for folks.

Dina Rosenbaum (52:28.91)
Sure. So we talked a lot about our, what we call our independent living or vision rehab program for adults, which is helping people who lose vision as adults get the skills to go back to work. And that, that is a big signature program that happens at the Carroll center. are a residential facility. So we do get people who come from all over to attend the program. We have similar programs for youth teens in the summer who come in the summer to get

experiences away from home to develop more independence, get away from mom and dad who are doing everything from them to so that they’re getting up, getting dressed, preparing meals, going out in the community, going to Dunkin’ Donuts by themselves, meeting other children, young adults who are blind, et cetera, having recreation experiences. So we have some youth summer programs. have a youth transition program for students who are

exiting out of high school but are not ready to go to college or not sure if they’re going to go to college or just want to go to work to also just develop more independent skills and confidence. We also have an education team of teachers of the visually impaired who go to public schools to work with children who are mainstreamed, who are blind, to ensure that they have access to the curriculum.

that they have their materials in whatever format works for them. Teach them braille, if appropriate. Teach them how to use talking computers or different devices or how to use their tablets. So it’s all around accessibility and those teachers work under contract by the public schools to serve those children. We have what’s called orientation mobility instructors who teach safe cane travel and safe travel who go to people’s homes.

to teach them to make sure they can navigate in and out of their home, take a bus, walk down the street, work with individuals at jobs that they can get to their job, travel in their job, know where the bathroom is, know where the cafeteria is or local food services, work with young adults at their college’s students to orient them to their college campus. We’re in Boston, hub of tons of colleges. We work with students who come from all over the country to go to school in Boston.

Dina Rosenbaum (54:46.796)
And if you’re visually impaired and blind, you need that extra support to learn this is your dorm. Let’s go over what’s in your dorm. This is the building that your classes are in, or the five buildings your classes are in. This is the cafeteria. So our staff go out and teach orientation and mobility. We have a history of really supporting recreation at the Carroll Center. So we have a blind sailing program with our local community boating program. And we run programs for

individuals who are blind to get experience and learn how to sail. We historically had also had competitive sailing programs where we had individual teams of blind people who competed in sailing around the world. There was actually an international blind sailing association that the Carroll Center was a founder of. Fencing is a program that actually was created by, brought

by Father Carroll because it was something they used with the blinded veterans as a way to help them orient themselves in space and learn more sensory skills in an environment that would help with traveling with a cane and mobility, like being able to cross the street in a straight line instead of veering off. And fencing seems to help with some of those skills, because when you fence and you take your foil and you want to attack somebody across from you, you got to…

make sure you know where that person is. So if you can use some non-visual skills to develop that, and that’s something that we still include in our program here. We also have a low vision clinic because many, as we talked about, many people who are blind are actually low vision or visually impaired. So we have an outpatient program that works with people just to help them find the right devices to use that can benefit them, magnifiers or video devices or, you know,

binocular devices and just educate people about how their vision loss is affecting their ability to see and what they can do to improve or use their existing vision. Sometimes it’s just like, you need more lighting. You just need a better light to do things visually and that will help you. So we have professional staff who do that. And lastly, we have a, or not lastly, we have a Carol store that sells adaptive products, both

Dina Rosenbaum (57:10.454)
in person or on our website. And then of course we have our technology program. can’t forget about that. That’s where I started. Where people can just come or get technology training and that’s the kind of training that is like you come every couple of years. So I got a computer. I need to use my speech program to use with Word or my email or web browsing or I need to learn how to use Excel and now

You know, three to five years later, everything is upgraded, new. Microsoft Office is new. You know, the Windows browser I’m using is a new, my speech is new. I need to get an update of skills. So we have a lot of people who come for basic training to advanced training. We also run a lot of employment programs to help people get more skills to go back to work. So we have an accessibility training program for people to get more skills to work in digital accessibility. It’s a…

attractive field for people who are blind because a lot of companies want blind people to test their websites or test their PDFs or their products, et cetera. So as a way for them to get employed and of high interest. we, we use a lot of, look at a lot of industries as well. Like right now we’re looking at the restaurant industry and in not so much people say restaurant industry, which is like, okay, we’re not, we’re not talking about.

Anthony Codispoti (58:10.86)
Mm-mm. Okay.

Dina Rosenbaum (58:29.59)
necessarily a blind person getting a job as a waiter, but in a commissary preparing food or doing prep work or working as in part of a college cafeteria. have individuals who blind who work in elementary school cafeterias or, you know, or food halls, et cetera. So there’s lots of, you have to think beyond the norm and what individuals can do. And sometimes it’s like carving out jobs for individuals to do. Certainly,

You know, a person who’s totally blind might not be able to do a cash register at CVS, but can they stock shelves and open boxes and put pricing on things? Absolutely. So again, thinking about, you know, those different jobs that are done by different people within a company or place and how a blind person could do those.

Anthony Codispoti (59:18.4)
Dean, I want to ask a self-serving question, kind of put you on the spot for a moment. My grandmother, who passed away several years ago, suffered from macular degeneration. And so the last years of her life were really frustrating for her as she had pretty close to no vision by the time she passed away. And so there’s a heredity component to that. And so it’s something I’m always sort of in the back of my mind, like, is this something that’s going to affect me?

Dina Rosenbaum (59:33.891)
Mm-hmm.

Anthony Codispoti (59:46.636)
I go to my eye doctor for an exam every year. They’re aware of it. They check me out. Is there anything else outside of that? This might not be your area of expertise, but anything else that I should be doing, thinking about, looking into?

Dina Rosenbaum (01:00:01.262)
Yeah, we try not to give medical advice, but I mean, I think it’s, it’s relative to, you know, when you have a genetic, predisposition for some type of disease is keeping healthy in general. So I think, you know, we, they know that sometimes, you know, making sure you have proper nutrients like vitamin A or vitamin C help, but there’s no guarantee for anything.

Anthony Codispoti (01:00:03.929)
haha

Dina Rosenbaum (01:00:28.62)
I think the best thing you can do is making sure you’re seeing the eye care professional on a routine basis, like going to the eye doctor every year. And if they say come twice a year, you go twice a year. So I think that’s really the critical part because there are definitely ways to halt the progression of vision loss and macular degeneration or other conditions. And a lot of the therapies that the pharmaceutical companies are coming out with are not so much to focus on, you know,

reversing or curing eye diseases, because that’s really difficult to do in a short term, but really just halting progression. And so we do work with a lot of those companies to educate and help with studies to really halt any progression of loss. So I think that’s the critical is early detection and to do anything you can to prevent the progression of the

Anthony Codispoti (01:01:05.88)
Yeah.

Dina Rosenbaum (01:01:26.488)
the eye condition so it doesn’t get as bad as quickly. that to me, the critical thing is getting eye care attention as routinely as possible. And you mentioned your grandmother and I think seniors, people as they age look at two things they think that are part of normal aging, hearing loss and vision loss. I’m older.

course, my eyes are not as good, my hearing is not as good, but that’s not really true. So it’s you really, when you identify some change in your vision or where you start to notice you’re gravitating to the window to read your mail, because you need more lighting, these are all signs that you should be getting some treatment or working with an eye care professional. So to me, that’s the critical part in doing that.

Anthony Codispoti (01:02:24.172)
Well, good advice and probably good advice for folks other than me to hear to get your eyes checked on a regular basis, which is a box that I’m checking. So I’ll just continue to do that.

Dina Rosenbaum (01:02:27.778)
Yes, everybody. Yeah. Yeah, great. And even I just want to state because we do work closely with a lot of the optometry schools and clinics and they identify that children are often screened in their schools, but the follow-up care doesn’t always happen because of various reasons. So I think it’s critical to just families. So not just elderly people, but…

families as well to make sure your kids are having their eyes checked. And if it’s at school and there’s any concerns at school that you are taking them for, you know, a private consultation, because I think that’s critical as well. It’s, amazing to me that I’ve talked to and met so many people over my career whose vision diagnosis didn’t happen till

later in life, but who had eye issues as children that did not know they had eye issues. And examples could be, I was never good at sports. I could never catch the ball or at night I couldn’t see that well. And either, you know, the child didn’t really talk about it that much or the family didn’t pick up on it. And then, you know, 20, 30 years later, now they’re having trouble crossing the street because they’re there, the loss has progressed and

the condition they actually have was something they had as a child. So it’s interesting to me how many people like that kind of fall through the cracks. That’s just like amazing to me that to hear these stories.

Anthony Codispoti (01:03:52.238)
Mm.

Anthony Codispoti (01:04:00.14)
and that individual wouldn’t have known that there was something wrong necessarily. It’s just like, this is sort of what the world looks like to everybody.

Dina Rosenbaum (01:04:03.266)
Right. Right. Yeah. When I hear somebody like, I was terrible at sports. I never played baseball or basketball. I couldn’t catch the ball. I couldn’t make a basket. And then they’re like, I have this eye condition in my 30s. And I’m like, did you have it when you’re younger? And they go, I was never diagnosed, but I think I did.

Anthony Codispoti (01:04:23.852)
Yeah. Dina, there were a couple of things that we talked about a little bit earlier that you mentioned wanting to come back to. Sort of this idea of work-life balance and a little bit about your family history. What did you want to say about those things?

Dina Rosenbaum (01:04:36.398)
So a lot of people ask me, how is it that I lasted at the Carroll Center so long? I think the sort of generation today and the youth in my kids today are popping jobs every five years. our parents more were in the, worked for one company and you retired and got a pension and a gold watch or whatever. I always think, I always have to answer that question and think about it. And I always think about that.

Anthony Codispoti (01:04:41.06)
Mm-hmm.

Dina Rosenbaum (01:05:02.478)
I stayed at the Carroll Center because of that work-life balance. So the opportunity to have different roles was one, but the fact that I actually went part-time when I had children and then I came back full-time when it worked for me and I felt very supportive in that environment. I think working in a nonprofit, you feel more supportive and it feels more family-like than sometimes corporate America, et cetera. But sometimes I always want, I do that. wonder if

kind of thing. What if I didn’t stay? What if I went somewhere else? But it certainly worked for me and my family and my husband has his own business. So it kind of worked for our family situation. But I think my sort of road to work in helping people really stems from my parents. My parents were Holocaust survivors.

and sort of helping people. My mother was a very loving person. even though she, you know, she, she was a hidden, she was hidden during the Holocaust, but you know, she lost her whole family and what she went through and she came out still loving and, but in giving back to people and, and until, you know, not too long before she died, she was always sending money and packages to the people who hit her and their descendants.

their children, grandchildren, we still have that close relationship, so that caring for other people. And I think the just mentality of taking initiative and getting things done was really also from my father. But also I think back to they’re separate from the Holocaust, that these people born in their 20s and you didn’t have a refrigerator, you’re a horse and buggy. And when they,

you know, in their 90s, they were using cell phones, right? And so how different the that 90 years of their lives were in terms of all the developments and stuff. But my father was very much a inclusive everybody did everything together. Didn’t matter if you were girl or boy, we mowed the lawn, we rake the leaves, we wash the cars, we have the, know,

Dina Rosenbaum (01:07:24.492)
vacuum cleaner was broken, we were helping him fix it. It was the generation where you didn’t throw things out, you fixed them, but children helped fix things, we weren’t excluded. I did everything my brother did. So definitely that mentality of equality was there, but good work ethic. But I think it was just empathy for others who…

you know, might not have all the resources that they need in helping other people, I think really came from them, and especially my mother.

Anthony Codispoti (01:07:58.174)
I appreciate you sharing that. Your parents obviously had their own set of intense challenges to overcome from when they were younger. I’m kind of curious to maybe hear about a particular challenge, either personal or professional, that you’ve overcome. Maybe what that looked like and some of the lessons that you learned coming out the other side.

Dina Rosenbaum (01:08:05.763)
Yes.

Dina Rosenbaum (01:08:19.768)
So my mother taught me something that I kind of live every day. And other people comment to me on it, and especially when I’ve had challenging employees, that I don’t get riled by things. Because my mother’s perspective, when I was a little girl and I would come home crying or be upset something, her

mantra was always there are worse things in the world, right? That was her perspective, right? And that’s how I was raised. And so I’m working with people and I really can just say, okay, we can get through this, we can work through this, because in my head, there are worse things in the world, like this is not the worst thing to happen. So I feel like anything, you know, anything that might have derailed other people, you know, I’ve

I lost a child in birth. We all have had death in our families or challenges. I’ve been able to get things through things because you have to take the time to get through them. But I also know I have that mantra in my head. Seeing my mother lose all her children, thinking about my mother who had to bury her brother who got shot on the side of a road.

You know, I just think of those horrible things that they went through and just go, okay, that just pokes everything in perspective. So, you know, I feel like any, you know, the challenges that you have is also important to have people around you to really go through the challenges, not doing anything alone. I feel the Carroll Center has always been that family of we will get through it. I’ve surrounded myself with family and friends of we will help you through it and get through it.

Anthony Codispoti (01:10:07.78)
Yeah.

Dina Rosenbaum (01:10:17.23)
And so I think that’s critical. can’t, you know, so with the sage, you can’t do anything alone. You know, it takes a village. so I think to me that’s really how, living my life and, and, know, both professionally and personally is just surround yourself with people who can support you and, and who, you know, who will be there for you because I, I’m there for them as well, because I recognize that you really want to give and take. So.

Anthony Codispoti (01:10:45.942)
I agree. think the safe connection with people is probably the single greatest healing power that exists.

Dina Rosenbaum (01:10:53.976)
Right, right. And I think, you know, the other thing is family is critical. And I, you know, I now have, you know, I have a married child, I have a grandchild, but I’m very, my, you know, you know, some of my friends might say, I can’t believe like you’re living your life for your children and grandchildren. I’m like, no, you don’t understand. Like I want to give to them. I want to be there for them. They’re not asking me to do that because I know how important that is.

Like, you know, and the fact that I want them to be there when I’m going to need them in my older age. And I’ve told them, like, I’m helping you now, you’re going to need to help me later. but it’s just that, it’s that just expectation that family is there for each other to help each other. But I think your family expands. So in a work environment, we’re all here together. It might not be my job, but I’m here to help you wherever you need help. And I think that’s what makes a difference.

and a great employee and having great people on your team.

Anthony Codispoti (01:11:55.812)
Tina, I want to workshop something with you just that you just said that and kind of tell you what I first thought and felt when you said it was you’re like, things could certainly be worse. This isn’t the worst thing in the world. Right. And when I first heard that, my initial thought was, don’t say that like that. That diminishes or dismisses the pain that you’re feeling in the moment, which is genuine and which is which is real. And then as I heard you talk about it a little bit more,

I kind of reframed it in my head a bit. And it’s like, you know, there’s sort of this natural human tendency to to want to compare, right, whatever it is good and bad. And so in this case, we’re comparing misery. It’s like, man, I’m really struggling. This is really rough. And, you know, and so maybe it’s sort of like a psychological lever to say, yeah, this is really rough. But my you know, your your mother, you know, watched witnessed her brother being shot the side of the head on the side of the road, like

there are things that are far worse than this, like pick yourself up, dust yourself up. Is that kind of the thought process?

Dina Rosenbaum (01:13:00.098)
Yeah, so it’s not like I wouldn’t say to somebody, say, this is not the worst thing in the world. But in my head, I’m going, OK, we can get through this. And yes, we will acknowledge this is difficult for you or it’s a hard time. But how can we get you through it? So because in my head, not being spoken out loud is, OK, we can get through this. Because there are worse things in the world. But we as a family, we as a team can get through this. So it’s just.

Anthony Codispoti (01:13:06.093)
Hmm.

Anthony Codispoti (01:13:15.202)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Gotcha.

Dina Rosenbaum (01:13:25.55)
It’s my own mantra. Yeah, I’m not telling other people that it’s my own mantra. Just like, OK, let’s I’m always like, let’s figure out how we can get through this. What do you need? How can we support you? What do you want to do? Do you know, do you need to take a break? Do you need you know, so but that’s that’s where I’m coming from and sort of. Yeah. Exactly right. Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (01:13:25.697)
That’s what helps you stay calm in the moment to be able to.

Anthony Codispoti (01:13:43.448)
That’s sort of what keeps you calm inside to be able to assist people who are going through trauma and chaos. Yeah.

Dina Rosenbaum (01:13:50.666)
Exactly. Yeah. So I’m not like freaking out because I’ve had that training, so to speak. Yeah. So I don’t say to people, the worst things in the world. I don’t say that, but it’s right. It’s kind of that training and mantra. I think it’s just, but it’s also saying to people, think professionals to say, like, let’s, let’s focus on how we can get through it. Let’s not focus on how terrible this is. Let’s focus on what this person needs, how we get through it. Let’s, let’s leave the.

Anthony Codispoti (01:13:56.162)
That makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (01:14:15.335)
Yeah, you can only dwell for so long. At some point, you’ve got to put one foot in front of the other and move forward. So, Dina, I’ve just got one more question for you. But before I ask it, I want to let people know the best way to get in touch with you. What would that be?

Dina Rosenbaum (01:14:18.87)
Right. Right. Right.

Dina Rosenbaum (01:14:31.672)
So through the Carroll Center, the simple way is info at carroll with two R’s two L’s dot org. And actually that email comes to me. Certainly have a LinkedIn page so you can connect with me on that as well. And even on the Carroll Center website, we have contact forms that people can fill out for more information or seeking guidance. And most of that emails come through my team.

Anthony Codispoti (01:14:56.546)
Great. Last question for you, Dina. I’m curious how you see what you do evolving in the next few years, the care for the blind. What do you think the changes are that are coming in your space?

Dina Rosenbaum (01:15:10.904)
So it’s still surprising to me that we still see so many people with vision loss that cannot be restored. It’s in even new genetic disorders, et cetera, that are being identified with individuals. So that’s surprising to me. But we certainly are seeing a lot of great technology that is helping people.

Certainly the use of AI, meta glasses that incorporate our devices or glasses that use artificial intelligence are a big assistance to people who are visually impaired now having access to artificial intelligence that can read things or see things or answer questions for them. Certainly the iPhone or cell phones have been in all the apps that are available to individuals that help them day to day, just things there’s.

program called Be My Eyes and IRA that provide sighted people through the camera to help you see things, read things, tell you information, et cetera, are all great opportunities for people. Uber has been game changing for blind people because now it’s their independence is back in travel. Set up an Uber account, order it in five minutes, it’s there. No longer do they have to call a range for days in advance or a week for a friend or a volunteer to drive them or.

Anthony Codispoti (01:16:22.072)
Yeah.

Dina Rosenbaum (01:16:35.49)
We have a paratransit, but again, you have to book it up 24 hours in advance and it comes two hours early. so that has been, and I think even driverless cars, I was in Austin, Texas last weekend and I’m seeing these driverless cars all over the place. It was amazing and scary at the same time. I’m like, we’re getting close to the Jetson age. So I think all those advances are great, but.

Anthony Codispoti (01:16:55.886)
Ha

Dina Rosenbaum (01:17:01.42)
you still need basic skills. Constantly sitting at my desk, getting emails and phone calls about researchers and university students who are like, I think I have the next best device for blind people to travel. They won’t have to use a cane. And I’m like, it’s still a great device. Nothing I think will replace the cane for a long time. It’s almost like saying, you don’t need to learn how to write because you can just use voice input, everything on your phone or your computer.

Anthony Codispoti (01:17:27.876)
Hmm.

Dina Rosenbaum (01:17:31.31)
There’s still some basic skills that people will need and should need, should use and learn how to use, even with all this technology as well. Blind people can use talking computers, but guess what? They still need to learn how to type and use a keyboard. Still a skill you need. Voice input is not at the point where we’re going to throw our keyboards out the window yet.

So, but all those technology has been in advances have been incredible for persons who are blind and in their independence.

Anthony Codispoti (01:18:03.946)
Dina, I want to be the first to thank you for sharing both your time and your story with us today. I really appreciate it.

Dina Rosenbaum (01:18:09.656)
Good, it’s been great, Anthony. Thank you so much for having me.

Anthony Codispoti (01:18:13.08)
Folks, that’s a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories podcast. Thanks for learning with us today.