From Purposeful Play to Personal Growth with Adrienne Anzelmo

Intro  

Welcome to another edition of inspired stories where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes, how they’ve overcome adversity, and explore current challenges they’re facing.

Anthony Codispoti: 

welcome to another edition of the inspired stories, podcast where leaders share their experiences. So we can learn from their successes and be inspired by how they’ve overcome adversity.

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Anthony Codispoti: My name is anthony, cotisbodi. And today’s guest is Adrian Anzelmo.

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Anthony Codispoti: co-founder and program director of Be Curious Children’s Learning Center.

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Anthony Codispoti: a childcare center in Belrica, Massachusetts, which is northwest of Boston.

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Anthony Codispoti: She 1st opened her center at the age of 23, with a dream of providing high quality, childcare and preschool to children and families in her community.

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Anthony Codispoti: For over 20 years they have grown to be the most established and reputable early childhood facility in their city.

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Anthony Codispoti: She has authored a children’s book called, No matter what

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Anthony Codispoti: which taps into her own personal journey for knowledge and understanding. As one of her children who was born male, began identifying as a female.

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Anthony Codispoti: Adrian continues to raise awareness for parents of children who struggle with gender identity and nonconformity.

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Anthony Codispoti: Part of their story is shared in a video made by George Takai of Star Trek fame.

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Anthony Codispoti: She has 2 new books on the way, which we’ll hear more about, and she is also a household name on the blog. No, love, what matters? And has been featured on numerous other sites, including cafe mom and daring women.

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Anthony Codispoti: Now, before we get into all that good stuff, today’s episode is brought to you by my company, add back benefits agency.

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Anthony Codispoti: now back to our guest today, the co-founder and program director of Be curious Children’s Learning Center. Adrian, I appreciate you making the time to share your story today.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Thank you so much for taking the time to have me on today and and talk a little bit about the industry of early education. It’s such an important thing, and it’s

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Adrienne Anzelmo: so often overlooked. So thank you.

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Anthony Codispoti: Absolutely okay. So we were talking a little bit before we went. Live here you’re born and raised in the Bill rocket community and went away for school and decided to come back.

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Anthony Codispoti: What was behind that decision.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Yeah. So I started in early education. During my college years I was a freshman in college and lost my father to a bout of a very short bout of cancer.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: And so he left us pretty suddenly, and my mom with 3 children, my oldest sister being a junior in college, myself being a freshman in college, and then my younger sister being a sophomore in high school. So I decided at that point if I wanted to stay at the small private college I was at, that I should really get a job and not ask her for money outside of college tuition. And so

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Adrienne Anzelmo: I looked around and landed just by chance a job at a local preschool.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: I was going to school for social work, and so I knew I wanted to work with children, but I didn’t anticipate myself in the education space. I anticipated more working with children of high risk in foster care and adoption. That was sort of my path at the time, and when I got into early education and started spending time in this preschool classroom, I absolutely fell in love with the industry, and

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Adrienne Anzelmo: I was so young at the time, and this was my 1st experience that I thought all early education facilities were run like the one that I was currently working at. And so I finished out my college degree in social work, and at the time also decided to get my certification through the department of early education and Care, which is an Eec certificate to work within the industry

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Adrienne Anzelmo: and sort of pursue both careers until I was more sure of what I wanted to do, and as I started some post grad work and moved around a little bit, I started to work at some other facilities and started to recognize that, like, hey, actually.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: not, all places are created equal, not all facilities are created equal, and that drove my passion to want to open my own facility and sort of carry out the idea of really providing a strong environment for these kids for age 0 to 5. And

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Adrienne Anzelmo: so I decided to do that back, you know, closer to where I grew up, and my mom, who is my my partner, my co-owner. We owned the company together. She still lived in this area, where where I was from, and where I grew up. And so my father and her owned a business previous to his death. And so she had all the accounting background and.

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Anthony Codispoti: Yeah.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Ability to to sort of run a business, and I had all this

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Adrienne Anzelmo: passion and and drive to want to, you know, make a difference in the space of early education that we decided to partner up and and go for it.

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Anthony Codispoti: So, Adrian, what was it that was different about that 1st center that you worked at, that you weren’t seeing in those subsequent centers.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: So you know.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: 1st of all, the 1st center I worked at the owner was the director, and so I think that there was a level of investment when the person that was directing the center was the owner. Because you’re only as successful as your business right? And so

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Adrienne Anzelmo: I initially thought some of these other centers I had gone to work at. That wasn’t the case. And I initially thought, Okay, well, you know, maybe maybe centers to be successful need to be small and privately owned. But as time went on I started to recognize that that’s not the case. There are lots of corporate centers out there that are successful and do a great job. But

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Adrienne Anzelmo: it really comes down to, you know, is that top tier level of administration, trained and really eligible to be, you know, leaders in the field. And what are they doing to really provide this rich environment for their students?

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Adrienne Anzelmo: And so I got that experience a lot with that 1st center and and a few centers to follow. But but I just realized that our centers over, you know, our industries oversaturated with facilities, but not saturated with quality. Early education.

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Anthony Codispoti: So it was more like these were sort of like, drop off daycare centers where they’re just kind of making sure the kid is safe, but maybe not moving the needle too much on education. Would that be correct? Observation.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Very correct. But also it’s important to note that education for kids 0 to 5 doesn’t look like the education that you would think in an elementary classroom, you know, sitting down and to pencil to paper, or asking children to even sit for long periods of time at 3, 4, 5 years old. It’s it’s not.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: It’s not a reasonable expectation. So a lot of learning at that age happens through purposeful play. But there’s a difference between purposeful play, and then just play. And so that’s where I think there is a lot of.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: you know, misguidance within the industry, because you can walk into an early education, facility and see kids playing and really learning nothing because you’re not really giving them a rich environment. You’re not giving them purposeful play experiences. You’re not putting them in social situations where you’re giving them the opportunity to generalize skills. Or you can walk in and see children playing, and have all of those things in place, and I think to an untrained eye that might be not easy to see at 1st sight.

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Anthony Codispoti: What would be an example of purposeful play? How would that differ from just play?

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Adrienne Anzelmo: So an example that I like to give is, if you want to teach a child. You know one thing that a lot of people want to teach a child say a 3 year old is about emotions, right? And so you can walk into a classroom.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: and you can see lots of things around the classroom like maybe a chart with all different emotions. A happy, you know. Happy child, smiling, a sad child crying, a mad child with an angry face. You might see a bucket with emotion flashcards inside. And you think to yourself, like, this is really great. This center is teaching kids about emotions. And that’s such an important thing that they’re going to bring to school with them. Right? It’s such an important tool to put in their toolbox.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: But just because we’re pointing to something and saying, Okay, what is this, child? And the child says, back to you, that child is happy. And then you point to the next child, and you say, What’s that, child? And the child says to you, oh, that child’s sad! You’re not really teaching them what happy and sad means.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: you know you. They can look at it and tell you, and even sometimes at home, if they see like a sad parent or a sad, you know, sibling, they might say, Oh, you’re happy, or Oh, you’re sad and think that’s great. They’re learning a new skill. But really, what you want to teach them is.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: this is what happy looks like. But how do we navigate? Happy? How do we navigate? Sad? You know you can sit and read a book to a child where they see a child being left out on the playground. And in this book that you know, the the one child goes over to the sad child and says.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Do you wanna

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Adrienne Anzelmo: come with us? And the the you know, the sad child says, Okay, and they get up and they go to, they run off and play together. And you think, Okay, now, we’re teaching this child that be inclusive include people, try to make them less sad. But, as we know.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: peers aren’t like adults, those relationships aren’t predictable. So what happens when you run up to a peer on the playground, and you try to generalize that skill and say, Do you want to come? Play with me? And the child looks at you and says, No, I don’t want to come play with you. What does that look like? What does that feel like for the child that just got rejected? And so giving them these really rich play opportunities and social opportunities, and really like taking time and space to say like.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Did that make you feel.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: what can we do now that this child said that they don’t want to play. What is the next best move, really diving into some of those really deeper opportunities is really what’s giving children the skill set that they need to go off to kindergarten. And unfortunately, nowadays.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: you know, kindergarten has such an academic rigor to it that teachers don’t often have time to teach these social lessons that are are so important in the foundation of these children’s lives.

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Anthony Codispoti: So, Adrian, in that specific example that you mentioned there, what would be the next step like? How would you sort of coach that child who was doing the right thing, who was trying to be inclusive and invite. You know this lonely child into their activities, and was rejected and was turned down.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: I mean there, there’s no right or wrong way to handle it necessarily, and this is what I would say to a teacher of mine, I would, I would not say like in this situation. This is how you have to handle it right, because a lot of it is about reading the room. If you know that that child by asking again that that child will come around that that’s their nature. Of that you might say to the student like, why don’t you give them a minute? Why don’t you do a lap around the playground that was so nice of you? Why don’t you do a lap around the

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Adrienne Anzelmo: playground and come back and ask again, and it might also give you space and time to say like, Wow! It must feel really good that Johnny came over and asked you to play. Maybe he’ll come back, and if he does.

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Anthony Codispoti: Think you should think about.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: About it, because look how much fun he’s having! He’s climbing the monkey bars. Oh, he’s also playing with Liam, and you love Liam so that that would be so much fun. And then, typically when that child comes back, you know, the nice thing about kids. 0 to 5 is they’re a pretty easy crowd, you know. For the most part they are pretty easy to redirect. They’re pretty easy to please, and if that child comes back and gets rejected again. It’s okay to say, you know what

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Adrienne Anzelmo: it sounds like. He’s just not ready to play, and that’s okay. But you still did the right thing, and you should still feel really glad and really happy with yourself that you took the time to notice that this child is being left out and offer. And it’s in.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: you know, that child that’s

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Adrienne Anzelmo: putting themselves out there and maybe not getting that feedback. It’s okay to acknowledge. Yeah, you must be really sad that you put yourself out there and didn’t get back. You didn’t get anything back. But guess what that’s what life is about. How often as adults do we give and give and give, and we don’t get back. And so, you know, you can’t always do things to get that reward in the end. So I think there’s just so many valuable lessons tied into just that one scenario.

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Anthony Codispoti: And from what we’ve talked about so far, it seems like perhaps a large part of your curriculum is sort of focused on these social and emotional development issues. Would that be correct.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Yeah. So I actually just obtained my master’s degree. This past May and my whole thesis was on social emotional development in children, ages 0 to 5. I think post pandemic, especially a lot of kids, are really lacking this skill set because they spent more time at home. Parents were more afraid to leave the house.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: and I think once they got back into the classroom, kids were so academically behind at the elementary level that social, emotional really took a backseat when it needed to really be at the forefront. Even more. And kids that, you know, would typically have been in early education for 2 or 3 years already are now coming in, needing so much more from us than than you know.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: What they would have had had Covid never happened. So we’ve always been really firm believers in social emotional growth. But I think in the last.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: you know, 5 years it has really come to the forefront and really allowed us to stop and say, like, Hey, this is this is what needs our time. This is what really needs our attention. If nothing else. Academics are important. Academic exposure is absolutely wonderful. But your child does not need to know how to write an alphabet more than they need to know how to navigate peer relationships.

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Anthony Codispoti: Hmm! Well, that last sentence was pretty powerful, and and I’ll I’ll back that up from my experiences, too. You know I’ve had the opportunity to interview a number of childcare center owners

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Anthony Codispoti: across the country, and I hear the same thing over and over again coming out of Covid, and my wife is a speech therapist for young children in a local school district here.

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Anthony Codispoti: and as things were getting back to normal after Covid, they were seeing more cases and more severe cases than they had ever seen, and not by a little bit by a lot.

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Anthony Codispoti: And she’s like, Yeah, it was just, you know the isolation of these kids. For so long. During these really important formative years, as well as you know, kids who would normally have been kind of identified in the system as needing a little bit of extra help earlier on, you know, they went a couple of years without getting that extra help. And so things, you know, became sort of worse exacerbated during that time. So I I think it’s great that we’re we’re we, but more particularly, you are shining a light on all of this right now.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Yeah, thank you. I absolutely agree with you. And I think that there are not. All programs are doing that. And I, and it’s important that we stop and say, you know

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Adrienne Anzelmo: what is important and what is most important in this industry, and really make sure that we calibrate

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Adrienne Anzelmo: to that.

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Anthony Codispoti: Yeah.

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Anthony Codispoti: just a quick tangent for a second here for our regular viewers, slash listeners. That may be. Taking in the video version of this nothing’s wrong on your end. We had some technical challenges here. And so we turned off our videos so that we could make sure we had all the bandwidth that we needed for the most important part of this, which is the audio. So lots of great content here already. And we’re gonna get into some even more interesting stuff. So

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Anthony Codispoti: it’s it’s great that we were able to to get the audio here figured out so that we can focus on the great content.

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Anthony Codispoti: So Adrian, tell me a little bit more about what a typical day would look like for one of your students.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: So every classroom is a little bit different. We we serve children ages 0 to 5. And so for our 0 to 12 to 15 months. Kids. Those are considered our infants. The State mandate is our excuse me, the State mandates our age group. So we don’t have much. Say in how we develop the age groups

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Adrienne Anzelmo: for each classroom. So 0 to 15 months is considered an infant, and infants run on their own schedule. So every day really looks different for every infant. It’s around 12 months when we start to consider their transition to the toddler room, the toddler program, which goes from 15 months to 2 years, 9 months, that we start to try to move towards a more structured class schedule.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: and then toddlers, which starts at 15 months all the way up to age 5 is a more structured classroom schedule. Now, with that being said, obviously, our kids in a toddler classroom are not going to be held to the type of

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Adrienne Anzelmo: schedule that are, say, Pre. K, which is our year before kindergarten kids are held to the reason that we create class schedules is number one. So we all have an opportunity to get on the playground. And 2, really. So kids understand predictability. And for our older classrooms, our preschool and pre-k kids. They can hold some accountability to their daily routine. So when they come in, they know that they’re supposed to unpack

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Adrienne Anzelmo: their backpack, pull out their snacks. They have a routine they follow that helps them not only learn self-help skills.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: but also it gives them some accountability to themselves. Into their classroom. They might have a classroom job they need to do or check themselves in, you know, just depending on what the classroom routines are in that specific classroom.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: In all of our classrooms, including our infant classrooms, we touch on curriculum areas every day, so every day the kids are going to be exposed to many not just play opportunities, but, like I had said, some pre-academic and academic opportunities. A lot of this is very open ended and play based.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: you know, every day they do a science and sensory activity. What does this look like in a toddler classroom? You think science, you might think, you know, they’re not doing biology, but we might have sensory buckets out full of kinetic sand, with little dinosaur bones hidden inside. If the kids are learning about dinosaurs, and they have to go through and pull out the dinosaur bones, and then

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Adrienne Anzelmo: for our older toddlers and young preschoolers, they might pull those dinosaur bones out, and then do accounting activity with them. So we can extend that into a math or a manipulative activity for some kids. We might.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: you know, in the older classrooms we might have. The bones might be a bit smaller, and they might use a set of tweezers to pull them out. So we’re working on the Pincer grip and that fine motor skill. So when they get to writing, they have sort of the skill set they need in this the small muscle control.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: and when they get to pre-k they might be pulling those bones out. And if they’re really, you know, if they’re a group that’s ready for it, they might be naming some of the bones. You know. What part of the dinosaur does this come to? They might be going and matching it up to an actual picture of a dinosaur and seeing where it matches so they can use their cognitive and cognitive skills and critical thinking. And so they’ve got this opportunity every day for math and manipulative science

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Adrienne Anzelmo: and sensory art, fine motor, gross motor. And then again, that very, very important free play, part of the day.

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Anthony Codispoti: But what you’re describing here, Adrian, sounds like a fantastic approach to early childhood education. Is there a way in your mind to sort of move the overall industry towards more of this model.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Well, you know, I say, all the time when I meet owners, and I meet directors who sort of share in this passion, I just tell them that we just have to keep fighting the good fight and keep, you know, letting our mission be known. And we work with a lot of, you know, outside agencies that go into different centers, and I’m constantly educating them on how important it is that when they’re in these centers that don’t have this high quality education that they say something.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: you know, like early intervention. For example, these early intervention is an agency that works with kids with developmental delays age 0 to 3. And so they go across all you know. They go across all centers across the State, and they’ll come into our program and say, well, this program is is wonderful. But I was at a program yesterday, and I said, Well, if you were at a program yesterday and it didn’t meet your expectations. It’s important that

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Adrienne Anzelmo: it’s important that you speak up because those kids deserve this opportunity as much as the ones that are here today. And you know, with me. And so we just keep, you know. Really, you know, letting our mission be known and really

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Adrienne Anzelmo: screaming from the rooftops, you know, even through, get a state level. And you know, when my Licensor comes in, when our State Licensor comes in we, you know, we just keep.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Let that mission be known, and how important it is that we really all start moving in the same direction. I think another really, really important aspect that can move us in that direction, and again, nothing within my control but something that I often talk about is the right now to be a director in an early education. Facility is only about 20 college credits. You only need 20 college credits.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: And so

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Adrienne Anzelmo: it’s

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Adrienne Anzelmo: I think, of myself from when I was 23, and I think of how prepared I truly

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Adrienne Anzelmo: was

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Adrienne Anzelmo: the actual

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Adrienne Anzelmo: own, a business, and how I

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Adrienne Anzelmo: educated athletic.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: who was

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Adrienne Anzelmo: and

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Adrienne Anzelmo: and.

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Anthony Codispoti: Hey, Adrian, I think we’ve got a little bit of a connection issue. You’re

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Anthony Codispoti: your audio’s dropping out there.

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Anthony Codispoti: Yeah, in this moment I’m not able.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: An amazing.

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Anthony Codispoti: Adrian, are you able to hear me.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Can you hear me?

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Anthony Codispoti: I can hear you now. I didn’t catch

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Okay.

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Anthony Codispoti: The the entirety of your previous answer that was cutting out

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Anthony Codispoti: So we’ll we’ll edit the

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Anthony Codispoti: the the missteps there out

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Okay.

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Anthony Codispoti: And and maybe we’ll just shift gears to a new topic.

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Anthony Codispoti: Okay? And unless you, unless you had more that you wanted to say on that.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: I don’t remember now.

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Anthony Codispoti: Fair enough.

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Anthony Codispoti: maybe. Maybe. Let’s talk about your second child and tell me about. When you 1st became aware that they were having questions about their gender identity, and what that was like for you and the whole family.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Yes, so she was actually about.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: It’s old Bully.

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Anthony Codispoti: Hey, Adrian, I’m sorry I’m gonna I’m gonna cut you off. We’re we’re losing your audio again.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: I’m not.

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Anthony Codispoti: Sure what’s going on.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Old enough to speak.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Okay, can you hand? I’m gonna go reset my router. Can you give me 2 min.

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Anthony Codispoti: Yep. No problem.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Okay. Can you hear me?

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Anthony Codispoti: I can.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: I just.

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Anthony Codispoti: Reset the router, because I.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: I just.

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Anthony Codispoti: We would lose Internet connection if you did that.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: I did, I reset the router.

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Anthony Codispoti: Okay.

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Anthony Codispoti: Alright. Well, let’s try that question again. Let’s see how the audio goes this time.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Okay.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: so okay, yeah, but.

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Anthony Codispoti: Yeah, let let me introduce with the with the question again. So we’ve got sort of a clean place to start the edit.

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Anthony Codispoti: So, Adrian, I want to shift gears for a moment and let’s talk about your second child. And when you 1st became aware that they were having

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Anthony Codispoti: questions about their genitor identity, and what that was like for you, for them

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Anthony Codispoti: and for the whole family.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Yes, so when my second child was born, she began identifying as female as young as 18 months. Believe it or not, as soon as she was old enough to talk.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Yeah, as soon as she was old enough to talk she would tell us that she was a girl, and we would correct her over and over again, and she would go to school

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Adrienne Anzelmo: mean? She went to my early education facility, and she would

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Adrienne Anzelmo: dress up in all of the dresses and and fancy

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Adrienne Anzelmo: bows and and dress shoes, and she just couldn’t wait to get to school because she had an older brother. So it’s not like. We had a lot of.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: you know, girly toys here. Not that there are girl boys and girl toys and boy toys necessarily, but a lot of the things that she enjoyed playing with a lot of the Princess things sparkly things. We didn’t own a lot of those things at the time, and so when she got to school she was all about that, and

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Adrienne Anzelmo: when she was around 3 and a half she started to start to get angry, when she would tell us that she was a girl, and we would tell her she wasn’t, and around 4 was when she started to self harm and have some self-loathing, you know. I don’t want to be alive anymore if I can’t just be a girl like all the other girls.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: And so that’s when we decided to seek some professional help, and we called Children’s Hospital. They have a whole gender

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Adrienne Anzelmo: unit

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Adrienne Anzelmo: over at Boston Children’s Hospital, and we scheduled an appointment, and

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Adrienne Anzelmo: around age 5 we went to this appointment, and the doctor was absolutely wonderful and really sort of unpacked everything that Maddie was feeling and everything that we were feeling, and was able to lay it out for us in a way that really made more sense, because I was always about supporting my child, but also wanted to make sure that as her parent, that I was also being the right type of compass for her, and

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Adrienne Anzelmo: we decided, after that appointment when we started seeing the statistics. For how often kids that you know do have gender dysphoria and are not validated and are not shown unconditional love, how often they turn to self harming and suicide and things like that. And we just made the decision that the only thing at the time we’re changing right now is her name and pronouns

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Adrienne Anzelmo: to give her this validation. We need to do that. And so we did, and I can say, and so we did like it was easy. It wasn’t. You know. There was a lot there was a lot around that a lot of

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Adrienne Anzelmo: we needed to come to a sense of acceptance, and we needed to really look deep and and into ourselves. And neither of us really had anything against people that were transgender. We really just had never even had never been on our radar. But we were met with a lot of judgment and a lot of hate, and really had to come together as a family and and be strong even when we weren’t, we had to pretend we were, and even when people would question us, and we were almost

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Adrienne Anzelmo: sometimes questioning ourselves. We just knew that this was the right path for her, and that we needed to love and support her at all costs. And

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Adrienne Anzelmo: it. It has gotten much easier, and you know she’s been so strong and so

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Adrienne Anzelmo: sure of herself, that it has made everything easier for us. And she went from being in a really angry, confused child.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: to being

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Adrienne Anzelmo: happy, well adjusted.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: And and you know you can’t put a price tag on that, you know most people say that must have been really hard. I’m not sure I can do it. And I, I said, if you loved, if you love your child, you could absolutely do it, you know. Yeah.

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Anthony Codispoti: And so what? How old is she now?

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Adrienne Anzelmo: She’s 13.

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Anthony Codispoti: 13. So you were going through all of this 8, 9 years ago, and this is when correct me if I’m wrong. But you know, awareness of

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Anthony Codispoti: transgender was really, I wouldn’t even say in its infancy it was probably something that a lot of people weren’t even familiar with. They hadn’t heard about. I think you know, for a lot of people sort of the

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Anthony Codispoti: the realization that this was, you know, even a thing was probably Bruce Jenner to Caitlin Jenner, am I remembering that correctly.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Yes, I would say we were we were sort of a little bit ahead of the the curb from, you know, from a media standpoint right? This is something that existed long before my daughter, and will exist for many years to come. But I I do think that there was a more of a media awareness and more discussions happening.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: When when the whole Jenner Caitlyn Jenner had had come out, and also, too, I think I am jazz, which is a pretty popular program that was on Tlc. Had come out and and kind of sparked a lot of interest in the world. But I could tell Maddie I tell her all the time. You know I’m a pioneer in what I do, and she’s a pioneer in what she does, and so there’s nothing wrong with that. She’s

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Adrienne Anzelmo: She’s a great kid, and she’s had to grow up quicker than most kids should have to. But she’s handled it with with grace, and and I could not be more proud to be her mom.

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Anthony Codispoti: And you made the point, Adrian, that this has become a lot easier, and I’m wondering if it’s become easier, because

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Anthony Codispoti: the public is more aware and more accepting. Or if that’s not the case, and it’s just gotten easier, because kind of within your your family unit, you are more

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Anthony Codispoti: equipped and more.

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Anthony Codispoti: I don’t know. Kind of settled into what this new dynamic is like.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Yeah, I think I think, really, this is this. It’s a it’s a more of a personal growth. I’ve never had to. I’ve never had to be so sure of anything.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: And so, even when I wasn’t sure, I had, to be sure, because I we had to really be a unified strong front.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: because we knew we would get a lot of backlash and a lot of people asking a lot of questions. And sometimes when people ask questions, and they come off as mean they’re not meant to be that way. Sometimes they’re just ignorant to the way that they’re asking a question or or why? They’re asking a question, you know. Even Maddie’s friends at school, when they found out she was transgender, one child said.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Well, does that mean that you have a penis, and and Maddie, you know, very strong and very well equipped, said.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: well, I don’t really talk about what’s in my pants, and you probably shouldn’t talk about what’s in yours, either. And and that really ended the conversation very.

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Anthony Codispoti: Quickly!

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Because because really, that’s true, we don’t meet each other and talk about that. And so you know, she’s able to really normalize the way that she lives, and she’s her own

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Adrienne Anzelmo: person. Now. At 13 I can have a conversation with her, and she can really help me identify sometimes things that I’m feeling or uncertainties. I’m feeling around certain situations, and she’s so sure and articulate that it really helps me be sure and articulate as well. So

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Anthony Codispoti: Okay.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Yeah, it’s it’s it’s really growing in these convictions. And now I look back at pre-transition. And I think to myself.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: what took me so long, and I know she was only 5, but she told me for a solid 4 years, and for 4 years I never told her. I never made her feel bad, but for a long time I corrected her because I thought, that’s what I was supposed to do, and so I cut her hair short because I wanted to remind her.

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Anthony Codispoti: And.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: That she was a boy, and I did all these things, trying to be the best mom that I could be, and I look back now, and I know pictures are hurtful, you know. It hurts for her to look at those. If I had just let her keep her long hair, that it would. That would have been easier for her. But I didn’t know. I didn’t know.

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Anthony Codispoti: No.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: So, yeah.

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Anthony Codispoti: Yeah. And I I think that’s the important thing is, you know, you didn’t have a frame of reference. It wasn’t something that you had come across. It wasn’t something to dealt with before

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Anthony Codispoti: you didn’t. You probably didn’t grow up knowing anybody who was transgender. And you just didn’t have a mental model, and I think that’s probably where you know a lot of people still are today. You know, we tend to fear or judge or dismiss, or, you know, cast down upon things that we don’t understand. And you made an interesting point, Adrian, that you know a lot of times when people are asking questions that come across as mean or hurtful.

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Anthony Codispoti: They’re not intending to be that way, but they have a lack of familiarity. They have a lack of experience, and perhaps they are genuinely curious and trying to better understand something that is completely new and foreign to them. What

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Anthony Codispoti: for? For people listening who are sort of in that boat that are like, Hey, I’m I’m trying to wrap my head around this like, what? What would be the okay questions, what would be the acceptable questions for them to ask.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: You know, I think, really, honestly, any question is okay to ask. I think a lot of times. It’s how we deliver questions. You know it’s it’s funny because IA friend of mine said, you know. Oh, there’s this. There’s this

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Adrienne Anzelmo: person at church, and I’m afraid to talk because I don’t know what pronouns to use. And I said, Okay, so we’re just not.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: We’re just not going to talk to them because we don’t know. Why don’t you ask them what pronouns to use?

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Adrienne Anzelmo: And she said, Is that okay to do? And I said, Well, I don’t know. I don’t know if this person will be offended by this, but we don’t know unless we try, and I feel like rather than social isolation, that this individual would want to be asked would feel

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Adrienne Anzelmo: respected for being asked, and and again, maybe that maybe that’s not the feedback that that she would get if she asked, but much like that little child on the playground who might not get that child to get up and go play. I think it’s important that we take these social risks, and that shows a lot about who we are as people when we’re able to say like, Hey, listen!

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Adrienne Anzelmo: I don’t mean to offend you, but I want to have a conversation with you, and I want this to be a respectful conversation. So do you have a preferred pronoun that I should use, and I think that that’s a really okay and acceptable question. But I think it’s really the way that it’s being asked is really an important aspect. And if you went to a good preschool and you have good social skills. Then you’ll probably know how to do that. See? See that full circle.

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Anthony Codispoti: I like how you tied that in. Well done!

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Anthony Codispoti: You know. Adrian, there’s a point in my interviews where I always like to ask a question about a particular challenge that people have overcome. Whether it’s a business or personal.

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Anthony Codispoti: I feel like, maybe we’re touching upon what’s probably been

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Anthony Codispoti: one of your biggest challenges to overcome. But I I don’t want to make that assumption, and I want to open the mic. If you want to give voice to something else.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Yeah. So actually, I thought a lot about we had talked about that we were. You know, we were going to dive into this and

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Adrienne Anzelmo: It’s

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Adrienne Anzelmo: I’m torn between professional me and personal me here, you know, professionally, there was a point that I remember in business that I really had to lean into growth, which is very important to do which we can touch on after if you want. But I will stay on this line of questioning personally, because personally owning a business and raising a family, especially a family with young children, especially a family with young children who have diverse needs.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: has been

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Adrienne Anzelmo: really so very challenging. And I don’t think people understand truly. When you’re a small business owner, the capacity in which your brain is constantly working your body is constantly working. You know there are no days off. There are no days off. When I had my kids I took a 2 week maternity leave with all 3 of them, and 2 weeks just isn’t enough. And

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Adrienne Anzelmo: I was still tied to my email and tied to touching base with them every day, and

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Adrienne Anzelmo: I have Maddie who we spoke about, but I also, my youngest child, also has an autism diagnosis with a communication delay, and so raising him and making sure that he has everything he needs, and he has all of the supports in place to live a happy, successful life.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: and finding a balance of, you know, having a husband and being part of a partnership with someone who I’m raising kids with and run a business. This business has become

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Adrienne Anzelmo: a family entity. You know we’ve had vacations cut short because of my business. We’ve had days off that were supposed to be days off that turned into not days off. A perfect example is, my daughter and I were walking in to get pedicures one day. It was a date day for the 2 of us, just a few months ago, and I got a call from my mom, who was covering the school and said.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: so, our state licenses here for a surprise visit, and we went from pedicure chairs to the school in about 10 min. And so she said, What about our pedicures? And I said, they’re gonna have to wait. And so my kids and husband have had to learn. It’s gonna have to wait a lot from.

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Anthony Codispoti: From me.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Over the years, and they’ve had to be

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Adrienne Anzelmo: part of this business, too. My husband has been an integral part of of the the grounds in the facility. And, like I said, my mom has has sacrificed endlessly for for this business, and

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Adrienne Anzelmo: I have 2 sisters that I had mentioned previously, who one is a special teacher in special education, and she’s been my education consultant for many years, and my other younger sister is a nurse, so she’s been my healthcare consultant, and both are called upon very regularly to be part of of what we do. And so.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: you know, there’s just been an endless amount of sacrifice from from every member of my my small and big family, and finding that balance has been

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Adrienne Anzelmo: has been difficult, rewarding worth it absolutely, I would do it again a hundred times over. But it’s business. Ownership is not for the faint of heart. I will say that.

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Anthony Codispoti: Yeah, I think you hit on something really good here, Adrian, for those people who you know, they they’ve got a a 9 to 5 type of job.

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Anthony Codispoti: It’s not that, you know. Those folks go home, and they never think about their work, but I think the degree to which small business owners are often

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Anthony Codispoti: fully consumed by their business. 24, 7. Whether it’s, you know, needing to get up and leave a pedicure to go in for a surprise inspection, or just having your mind constantly be working on all of the issues that need to be solved, you know, in the background, you know. Right. I’ve got a a water pipe that needs to be fixed. I’ve got

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Anthony Codispoti: payroll to meet. I’ve got this you know, these 2 employees not getting along. I’ve got an upset parent. And how am I going to deal with that like? It’s it’s hard, and sometimes it’s it feels downright impossible just to turn those things off and be fully focused on the present moment. So

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Anthony Codispoti: as you look back on, you know how you’ve done this over the past several years. You said you would do it again in a heartbeat. Is there anything you think you would do differently?

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Yes, I will say, and I think I touched upon this a little bit earlier.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: I didn’t get my master’s degree until this past year. And so I did do some graduate level work in social work back when I got my undergrad degree. But and I did get my certification in early education, but I never went and got an advanced degree, because it was not required of me, and I think I had started to touch upon, you know when we say, like, you know what has what has been the hardest for you, or what you know? What if, what challenges have you faced

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Adrienne Anzelmo: professionally, you know. Covid really, really put things in perspective for me professionally, it required us we you know, we were in a mandatory shutdown for about 5 months, and when we were able to reopen we had to reopen really under new guidelines in a new structure via the State of Massachusetts, and what they were were expecting of us, and

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Adrienne Anzelmo: we were about 16 years into the business at this point, and we had a pretty successful business model. But

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Adrienne Anzelmo: It really gave us a chance. And by us I mean my my mom, myself

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Adrienne Anzelmo: and my 2 sisters. We started having business meetings, and it gave us a chance to really look at

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Adrienne Anzelmo: what we’re doing. And my older sister, who is just full of wisdom, constantly said, You know, Adrian, you’ve been doing what works for so long. And so you don’t fix what’s not broken. But this is an opportunity for you to really look at your business model and really lean into the things that don’t work and admit them to yourself. Admit your shortcomings

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Adrienne Anzelmo: and lean into that and grow with it, and growth is really uncomfortable, and it’s going to really stink to sit in this for a little while, but this is an opportunity for change and growth, and and you should. And you should take it, and I had soon after that seen a quote from Maya Angelo that said.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Do your best, and once you know better, you need to do better. And so that’s sort of what Covid was for me. It was a chance for me to look at my entire business model, top to bottom. And one thing I really recognized in myself is that maybe I wasn’t the most effective leader. Maybe I wasn’t, you know. Maybe I wasn’t up to par on the most current teaching practices. And and just because I wasn’t required to be doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: And I’ll never, ever take the 16 years back prior to Covid, because I do feel like we gave a really great high quality education to all the kids that came before Covid. But I do look at things a little differently now, and and that’s okay. But but if I had my younger self in front of me, I think that’s 1 of the biggest things I would tell her is, keep growing. Don’t ever stop growing and lean into that discomfort of saying like.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: you know, don’t be so defensive. Don’t be so quick to say, like, Yeah, but but we’re successful. Who cares if you’re successful? Are you doing the best job that you can possibly do. And and that’s sort of, I think, what sets some leaders apart from others. And so I just decided, I want to be. You know, this is what I want to do. I want to keep giving the best possible product and the best possible opportunities, not only for these kids, but for employees, for families for everyone across the board.

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Anthony Codispoti: I appreciate that we were able to loop back into that idea of leaning into growth. I know you’d mentioned that a few minutes ago, and wanting to come back to that. So it was great that we sort of naturally came back to it. And this is something that I know as a father of 2 young boys that sometimes I struggle to find a way to teach them, you know, for example, my oldest boy is. He’s got some athletic skill, and so, you know, I’ll hear him say things like, well, Dad, I’m already super good at soccer.

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Anthony Codispoti: and it’s like, you know, I don’t want to tell him that. You know he’s not. I appreciate that confidence. It’s like, Yeah, like, you’re you’re doing a great job with soccer. And

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Anthony Codispoti: there’s always the opportunity to improve.

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Anthony Codispoti: and that’s where I feel like my approach is

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Anthony Codispoti: maybe falling on mostly deaf ears. I don’t know if you have any advice for me as a father in terms of like, you know, I don’t. 100%. I don’t want to make him feel bad about where his skill level is whether it’s in a sport, or, you know, a particular subject in school or just, you know, sort of making friends, or whatever it is. But yeah, I always

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Anthony Codispoti: want him to be looking for ways to improve how to level up, you know. Am IA little bit better, faster, stronger, wiser than I was yesterday kind of a thing, any thoughts and advice on that.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Yeah, I think really, it’s about providing these kids with opportunities to both succeed and to fail. And when I say fail, obviously, you don’t want him to. You don’t want to put him on an elite team where he’s going to be completely out of place and say, see, son, I taught you how to fail. It’s not not like that. But but you know, maybe he is really good at soccer, and maybe soccer comes naturally, and maybe it’s going to be years and years before he.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: you know, is challenged in that particular area of his life. But putting him in other opportunities where he might not be as strong and allow him to sort of sit in that. Oh, I’m not, as you know. I’m not as good at, you know.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: at guitar, you know you have them in guitar lessons. I’m not as good at at music as I am at soccer. You’re right, you’re not. But that doesn’t mean that we should give up on guitar, and it doesn’t mean that we should not, you know.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: try new things, or try things that maybe don’t come as naturally to you, and I think just giving them again these opportunities to be successful. And then maybe these opportunities to not be as successful and to be okay with that, and to sort of recognize some of the my sister, my, my! Oh, so wisdomous! Sister said to me ultimately, your job right? And this. This is as an early educator. But but you could really apply this to parenting to your job.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Your 1st and foremost job is is that every child with them carries around an empty toolbox. And what our job is is to put as many tools in that toolbox as possible. And these aren’t tools that they might use today or tomorrow, but you know, or for even 5 years. But if you give them the opportunity and put that tool in their toolbox and teach them things like empathy and compassion, and you know, someday

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Adrienne Anzelmo: they’ll have that tool to pull out and say like, Hey, listen! I need to call upon this. I need to. You know, I need to be. I need to call upon positive self-talk. You know, I need to call upon these skills that I might have learned in preschool that I haven’t needed to use. But I need to use now, and and we’ve done that by giving them the tools

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Adrienne Anzelmo: to do that. And so so that’s what I you know.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: That’s what the best advice I can give you is to put him in in situations where he’s got opportunities to succeed, opportunities to fail, and a lot of language around how to navigate those feelings.

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Anthony Codispoti: Yeah, yeah, it’s 1 of the things. And he and he has had been in those opportunities where he’s he’s really struggled where he accidentally got put into the wrong league, where he’s playing with kids who were, you know, a foot and a half taller than he was, and

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Anthony Codispoti: you know, really struggling. And you know, trying to explain to him that you know, these are opportunities for growth.

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Anthony Codispoti: That’s a speech that’s probably lost on a lot of adults, you know, who are.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: I was just gonna say that. Yes, I was just gonna say that. Yes.

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Anthony Codispoti: Trying to explain it to a 10 year old is, you know, even more difficult when he’s got, you know, tears coming down his face because his team just got hammered for the 12th time. But I think with a lot as with a lot of things, repetition is probably really important, you know, I’m sure that there were a lot of things that my dad, you know, said to me when I was younger, that I rolled my eyes at or dismissed that, you know, after I heard it for the 1,500 time.

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Anthony Codispoti: you know, and I’m getting a little bit older like it finally started to sink in. And so that’s that’s the approach I’m gonna try to take is even if he’s rolling his eyes and moaning and groaning every time I repeat some of the same things. I’m just gonna keep doing it and hope that it eventually filters through.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Exactly keep doing it. And and you know, I think, and don’t quote me on this, but I think you have to introduce a skill something like 27 times before you’ll even consider using it. And so just think about that. You know he needs to hear it and see it so many times in order for him to have that skill available to him.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: And so, and and a lot of times, too, you know, coming off the soccer field, and he’s frustrated, and he’s and he’s at an elevated high. His nervous system isn’t ready to hear you say good, try. But you know, but in in an hour or 2 after he’s, you know, gotten home and taken a shower and sort of cooled off, and he and he’s, you know, just plopped down on the couch to, you know, watch a program on TV. That’s when you turn to him and say, you know what

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Adrienne Anzelmo: today that must have been a really tough loss. But I want to tell you you did something during this game that made me proud. You didn’t give up, and and you know. I think that’s so important, and and point out a few of the things that he did during that time that made you proud, and and let him see that even though overall, it was a loss, it wasn’t a loss. It was an opportunity for growth. And that’s where you know. That’s where he’s going to learn and sort of take that skill with him, but he’s going to have to hear it a whole lot a whole lot.

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Anthony Codispoti: That’s really good advice. Yeah, thanks for that, Adrian. I want to shift gears now, and I want to hear about your books. We mentioned one in the intro, no matter what, maybe talk a little bit about what 1st inspired you to write a book at all, and then maybe let’s give voice to a couple of the new books that are out now.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Sure. So

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Adrienne Anzelmo: you know, this goes back to something you were saying earlier about

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Adrienne Anzelmo: when Maddie 1st transitioned we we didn’t have we didn’t really have a direction, you know, when our son got a diagnosis of autism it actually was a bit easier than things were with Maddie. Believe it or not. And and that’s because,

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Adrienne Anzelmo: you know, autism, spectrum disorder. It’s got a lot of visibility, and there’s a very clear path. If you have a child that is diagnosed with autism. These are the steps that you take to get him help. And so it was a really clear path. These are the agencies you call. These are the the services they provide. This is, you know, this is where he’ll get the skill set that he needs to to function and be, you know, well rounded. And so that was great

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Adrienne Anzelmo: with Maddie. It’s you know, we’re still figuring this out. There is no protocol. There is, no, you know, this is how things are done in all of our research. This is what we found works best because we are the research. And so I felt really lost and alone for a couple of years, and for that reason I decided, with Maddie’s permission, that we would tell her story through a storybook, and and it was really to

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Adrienne Anzelmo: for written for families who find themselves in the position that we were in when Maddie was, you know, a Youngin. And so we self-published and printed off as many copies as we could, and we actually donated them to local pediatrician’s office, to the gender unit.

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Anthony Codispoti: Children’s.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Hospital, and that’s where all of our proceeds have gone. They’ve gone right back into the project and and into raising awareness and providing support to families with children who are struggling with their gender.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: And so that’s that’s where the 1st book came from. And now, in quite a few of the blogs that I’ve written. And again it was to tell our story so that it would be an easier path for other families.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: and Maddie has since done some interviews, and and she’s done a few school trainings with

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Adrienne Anzelmo: with teachers on how to How to, you know, represent the community and how to be sensitive in schools, and and she’s done a lot of really great advocacy work, and I hope, as she gets older, she continues to do that. But this is her path to figure out. But that’s ultimately what inspired our 1st book.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: So I had since written, I’ve since written 2 other children’s books. They aren’t out. Yet. One is in with a illustrator now.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: and it is called The Curious Adventures of Mrs. Beasley, and it is about a preschool teacher and her 30 years as a preschool teacher, and the impact that that had on her students.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: And again, this was written really about raising awareness to early education, and how important these years are, and what an impact they can have on kids when they’re provided with a strong early education environment.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: And then our other children’s book which will come out after that. I’m hoping the curious adventures of Mrs. Beasley will be out by the end of 2024, and shortly after, in 2025 is the book I wrote called Brendan’s Box.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: And it’s about a little boy who is a neurodivergent, meaning that you know it doesn’t talk about whether he has a diagnosis of any kind. But he’s a kid that’s a little bit different than all the other kids, and and him trying to sort of find his way and where he fits

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Adrienne Anzelmo: because he doesn’t follow the typical model of what’s expected of kids. You know, he tries to play baseball, and and he doesn’t like it, and he tries out dance class, and he doesn’t like it. And he said, You know, what box do I fit in. I don’t seem to fit into the box of any of these other children. And what does that mean for me? And it’s sort of his journey to finding himself and really bringing awareness and acceptance to kids who are neurodivergent and allowing space for them.

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Anthony Codispoti: And will these 2 books also be self-published?

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Adrienne Anzelmo: They will be self-published through Amazon publishing, and both have different illustrators, so each book will look a little bit different. My original book, no matter what was illustrated by a good friend of mine, Jessica Sharp and Tier, who was actually a teacher for many years at be curious.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: and she was able to actually travel Maddie’s journey with her as one of her preschool teachers. So it was important to me that she illustrate that book. It was a great project I loved working with her on the Brendan’s box is being illustrated by a friend of mine, who’s also a family nurse, practitioner, and works

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Adrienne Anzelmo: very closely with a lot of children who are neurodivergent. So I think this is a passion project for her, and I’m excited for her to, you know, to roll out her talents through illustration, and then I have.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: I have a separate illustrator out of India who is doing my curious adventures of Mrs. Beasley, who is just about finished up. So I’m really excited to see you know what that looks like for us in the coming months.

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Anthony Codispoti: So for anybody who might be interested in getting their hands on a copy of either the 1st book, or to be notified when and where they can get their hands on the second and 3rd book. What would be the best way for that to happen?

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Sure, I have a Facebook page where I always make public posts about anything that’s happening in my author’s world. You can always purchase, no matter what, on amazon.com, and both of the new books, when they come out and are available, will also be available on Amazon and many other bookstores pick them up. I know we ended up on Barnes and nobles and across many other platforms, but it will. It will start our journey on Amazon.

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Anthony Codispoti: Okay, what’s the Facebook page that you mentioned.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Yeah. Yep. My Facebook page is Adrian Keith and Zelmo.

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Anthony Codispoti: Make sure that we put that in the show notes. And then how about just a general way for people to get in touch with you.

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Anthony Codispoti: Would it be that same Facebook page.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Yes, absolutely. I’ve had lots of families reach out to me over the years, especially with neurodivergent kids. I you know, I don’t pretend to be an expert on that. But as a mom, I know sometimes it’s you. Just you want to hear that I see you, and I hear you and I know how hard this is, and you’re not alone. And everything’s

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Adrienne Anzelmo: going to be okay. And so I’m I’m always here. I’m here, you know, in any capacity that you know. People want to reach out. And and I’m excited about I’m excited about the future in these books and and

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Adrienne Anzelmo: everything that’s ahead of us.

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Anthony Codispoti: What about a Facebook page for the child care center itself.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Yes, you can also visit us on Facebook at be curious children’s learning center. And again, like you had mentioned, we’re located

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Adrienne Anzelmo: the Orca mass and

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Adrienne Anzelmo: We love what we do.

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Anthony Codispoti: I can tell. It comes through last question. I have for you today, Adrian. How do you see your industry evolving in the next few years. What do you think the big changes are that are coming.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: You know, I think our industry is a bit at a breaking point. I you know, I think our teachers are underpaid and underappreciated, and I think the cost of childcare is at an all time high, and for this reason I think it makes it a very hard balance.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: finding ways to keep teachers in the industry

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Adrienne Anzelmo: and wanting to work and do this this hard and very important work while still keeping childcare affordable for families. And so I don’t have answers to you about where we’re headed, but I do think we’re headed somewhere, and I hope that that somewhere is somewhere that considers all stakeholders.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: You know the Department of Early Education and Care has been taking a lot of time and sending out a lot of surveys to to owners and directors, and so I think it’s great that they’re giving us a voice. But we’ll have to see you know what they do with that information over the course of the next few years, and and sort of see how it evolves.

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Anthony Codispoti: Terrific. Well, Adrian, I want to be the 1st one to thank you for sharing both your time and your story with us today. I really appreciate it.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Yes, like, I said at the beginning of the interview, I really appreciate you taking the time to to bring some awareness to early education we need to get away from from calling it daycare and really.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: really focus in on the important work that all people in this industry are doing. I think one thing I did not get a chance to to say. You know I I said, a special thanks to my family, but I think it’s important to acknowledge all the teachers that have worked for my facility and really work across the State to provide this important service because it is tireless work. And we’ve had

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Adrienne Anzelmo: some really, really wonderful individuals who have have joined us and stayed with us through a lot, and I want to make sure that I acknowledge and thank them for for everything what they’re doing day in and day out. I tell them this in person, but it’s important to really

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Adrienne Anzelmo: say here as well. It’s it’s such important, important work, and I’m I’m just so so grateful for all of them.

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Anthony Codispoti: You know I’m glad that you took a moment to to give respect and call them out cause. This is something that I I agree with wholeheartedly, and I’ve heard from so many other childcare owners that

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Anthony Codispoti: You know these are such important, formative years for our most treasured and valuable assets, and our little kids and

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Anthony Codispoti: there seems to be a bit of a disconnect right in terms of

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Anthony Codispoti: what we’re able to pay them.

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Anthony Codispoti: you know, for helping our children through these, you know. Incredibly important years and you know what they’re worth. and

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Anthony Codispoti: yeah, I’ve talked to lots of owners and lots of folks working at these centers, and nobody really has sort of a, you know, a silver bullet solution here, because.

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Anthony Codispoti: you know, I mean, one answer would be, well, just you know you just raise tuition. Well, you know, there’s a point where parents Max out on what they can afford. And so there’s, you know, there’s sort of this push and pull like, you know. How? How do we better compensate these folks who are doing such an amazing job with our children.

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Anthony Codispoti: and I don’t know the answer to it. But I’m glad that you took a moment to call out and give respect to these people. It was one of the reasons why I was inspired to do a series specifically on

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Anthony Codispoti: childcare centers. You know, my kids were going through child care centers themselves during the Covid years, and

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Anthony Codispoti: it really helped hammer home. Not that I ever, you know, took them for granted, but you know, as I saw them really struggle with

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Anthony Codispoti: sort of this bizarre reality that been thrust in front of them, and everything that they were trying to do, from the teachers to the the owners themselves, to bend over backwards, to

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Anthony Codispoti: help families out and to to help our children. Just it. Really, it warmed my heart in a way that’s difficult to put words to. And so, yeah, I’m I’m glad that you took a moment to do that. Thank you.

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Adrienne Anzelmo: Yep, I completely agree with you, and and you’re welcome, because again I I say it all the time. These teachers, the ones that are on the floor. And with the kids they’re they’re the the heartbeat of this industry. And so

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Adrienne Anzelmo: yeah, thank you. Thank you so much.

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Anthony Codispoti: Absolutely folks. That’s a wrap on another episode of the inspired stories. Podcast thanks for learning with us today.